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The Ratings Thread (Part 20)


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Old 05-06-2011, 19:44
Dancc
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I think if you took a crowd of people, and 70% of them were over 45, you would think the crowd was old generally, sure Hollyoaks is amazing in comparsion, but you cant tell me that 70% is not reperentive.
But that's preposterous! You might as well take the same view of EE and Corrie then because approx 60% of their viewers meet the same criteria! Or in Emmerdale's case, around 70%.
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Old 05-06-2011, 19:52
Charnham
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But that's preposterous! You might as well take the same view of EE and Corrie then because approx 60% of their viewers meet the same criteria! Or in Emmerdale's case, around 70%.
ok first of all calm down, and realise that I didnt inculde the 35-45 demographic in the figure, I think its completey fair that people 45+ could be seen as old, they are certainly not the same as the 16-35 group, most likely living very differnt lives, and buying very differnt products.

You can't compare with a digital channel in a different country, it's just not a legitimate comparison on any level.
all I can is that its the same show, im not suer why its not a fair caomparsion There is no age limit on ELEVEN, older people are as free to watch it, as older people are to watch E4 or 5*

If there are EE, Corrie & Emmerdale figure I will glady add them to the mini chart, but at one stage both Home & Away & Neigbhours were seen as soaps for young people, that does not seem to be the case now.
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Old 05-06-2011, 19:53
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It seems strange having The Royal back on ITV1. I almost feel like I should be doing my homework before school in the morning! (although that was more Heartbeat but it's practically the same show)
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Old 05-06-2011, 20:01
Dancc
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If there are EE, Corrie & Emmerdale figure I will glady add them to the mini chart, but at one stage both Home & Away & Neigbhours were seen as soaps for young people, that does not seem to be the case now.
It hasn't been the case for years and years though. Total non story.

The simple answer is that its "young" viewers grew up, as did the shows.
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Old 05-06-2011, 20:13
Brekkie
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I suggested last night they could have aired Caroline Aherne's new sitcom pilot in that slot. Or as someone else suggested a Celebrity Juice episode, maybe a BGT themed one.

The problem is the vast majority pf BGT viewers will have had/have no interest in PTOS at all. I would be shocked if PTOS seems a genuine boost.
Completely disagree with that - I think there is an obvious crossover appeal for the both, and even if there wasn't by putting a preview in the middle of a show where viewers have no interest in can surely only boost it's appeal. No point putting such a preview out if the show didn't need it.

I assume the fact that 49% of hollyoaks audience is in its favour, hence all the Product Placement talk. Didnt think 28% of its auidence would be over 45.
re: http://i51.tinypic.com/11j4qo9.jpg
Thanks for all the stats rzt. The trouble is 49% being 16-34 may be good, but since last time we had those stats the 16-34 audience has fallen something like 50%. The 16-34 total audience used to be on a par with Emmerdale, despite Emmerdale having 4-5 times the total number of viewers.

BTW rzt, you don't have the figures for Monday for the first look editions of Home and Away and Hollyoaks plus the Neighbours repeat on 5*. Would be interesting to see if they skew younger on the digital channels, especially Hollyoaks. Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2011, 20:43
C14E
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Think I suggested this before on here (?) but anyhow...

Auditions episodes for BGT - 90 minutes on Saturday, 60 minutes on Sunday starting Sat/Sun 7th/8th for 3 weeks. Then the same format to round out the auditions and for the London callback stage.

Saturday shows from 8pm-9.30pm with Piers Morgan or Jonathan Ross at 9.30pm-10.30pm (perhaps if they can develop some kind of light ent format that would work at that time with Michael Mcintyre it could get the BGT lead-in).

Sunday shows from 8pm-9pm with a new drama following. As with Downton Abbey, the lead-in would hopefully give them some confidence to commission something a bit more ambitious. No cops, no lawyers.

Saturday 5th May (8pm-10pm):
Live YouTube show - 10 acts selected from online auditions perform for the first time. 3 go through to live shows.

Sunday 6th May (7.30pm-9.30pm) & Monday 7th May (8.30pm-10.30pm):
Live semi-finals. 10 acts in each. 3 go through to the final. At the end of Mondays show, the judges add a 10th act as the wildcard (from either of the 3 live shows).

Saturday 12th May (7.30pm-9.30pm) & Sunday 13th May (8-9pm):
Live final. Performances on Saturday. On Sundays show, reveal the top 3 or 5 at the start of the show and open the lines again. Fill time with some decent guests.

I don't think there's any point trying to launch much at 9.30pm on a Saturday night. Life Stories does a decent job holding onto some of that audience. But this scheduling gives them 6 weeks to run a new drama alongside BGT at 9pm on Sundays (9.30pm one week).

I don't know why they didn't do the YouTube show as they did it in the US. It worked well over there as a live special and would certainly have broken up the 5 stretched semi-finals we had last week (plus, more revenue from Google/YouTube). The idea above means just 20 semi-finalists instead of 40. In turn, that means more time can be spent on the cut episodes because there ought to be a bit more drama about it.

Ends up with 19 hours rather than the 20 hours they had this year but increased ratings should make up for it. No lead-in for Corrie, but a great opportunity for a new show in the Sunday 9pm slot.

I suggested last night they could have aired Caroline Aherne's new sitcom pilot in that slot. Or as someone else suggested a Celebrity Juice episode, maybe a BGT themed one.
I'm not sure Celebrity Juice would have worked - they'd have to majorly tone it down if it was in the sandwich slot, Holly might not be available just now and the series just finished anyway so it wouldn't have any particular benefit in the long run. Although I suppose it might have been better for BGT (I suspect it would have held the audience better than what sounds like a 30 minute trailer).

As I discussed above, I think it would have been best to use the start of BGT to launch something (which would have finished at the same time) rather than trying to launch something at the end when we're just heading into summer TV.

We'll never know for sure but if the preview show got 10% to consider watching it tonight when they otherwise wouldn't, then it's probably a result. Although I have a feeling it's not going to do particularly well anyway.
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Old 05-06-2011, 21:17
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I'm not sure Celebrity Juice would have worked - they'd have to majorly tone it down if it was in the sandwich slot, Holly might not be available just now and the series just finished anyway so it wouldn't have any particular benefit in the long run. Although I suppose it might have been better for BGT (I suspect it would have held the audience better than what sounds like a 30 minute trailer).

As I discussed above, I think it would have been best to use the start of BGT to launch something (which would have finished at the same time) rather than trying to launch something at the end when we're just heading into summer TV.

We'll never know for sure but if the preview show got 10% to consider watching it tonight when they otherwise wouldn't, then it's probably a result. Although I have a feeling it's not going to do particularly well anyway.
They called it right by using a Popstar to Opera Star preview. After the football and BGT, viewers will have been needing a beak, and clearly 5m, if not more, switched off. The preview show became background noise, but still has potential to draw people into tonights show. I had no interest but saw a bit last night and thought it would be worth a shot.

The issue is with ITV weighing up a 30 minute ratings fix vs potential increase to an audience for the next 6 weeks. As advertisers will have been spent out from last nights BGT, its worth more to make a success of the next few weeks rather than put a show out that won't make much in returns because focus is elsewhere that night. BGT has a fair ABC1 audience who may have been interested in it, so its a good platform.

If ITV did put something generic inbetween last nights shows, no doubt people would have been saying how they should have aired a Popstar to Opera Star preview instead of a one off. Something else may have got better ratings, but ITV clearly see the culmination of the next 6 weeks to outweigh the extra million or so they could have had.
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Old 05-06-2011, 21:30
Brekkie
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Think I suggested this before on here (?) but anyhow...

Auditions episodes for BGT - 90 minutes on Saturday, 60 minutes on Sunday starting Sat/Sun 7th/8th for 3 weeks. Then the same format to round out the auditions and for the London callback stage.

Saturday shows from 8pm-9.30pm with Piers Morgan or Jonathan Ross at 9.30pm-10.30pm (perhaps if they can develop some kind of light ent format that would work at that time with Michael Mcintyre it could get the BGT lead-in).

Sunday shows from 8pm-9pm with a new drama following. As with Downton Abbey, the lead-in would hopefully give them some confidence to commission something a bit more ambitious. No cops, no lawyers.

Saturday 5th May (8pm-10pm):
Live YouTube show - 10 acts selected from online auditions perform for the first time. 3 go through to live shows.

Sunday 6th May (7.30pm-9.30pm) & Monday 7th May (8.30pm-10.30pm):
Live semi-finals. 10 acts in each. 3 go through to the final. At the end of Mondays show, the judges add a 10th act as the wildcard (from either of the 3 live shows).

Saturday 12th May (7.30pm-9.30pm) & Sunday 13th May (8-9pm):
Live final. Performances on Saturday. On Sundays show, reveal the top 3 or 5 at the start of the show and open the lines again. Fill time with some decent guests.

I don't think there's any point trying to launch much at 9.30pm on a Saturday night. Life Stories does a decent job holding onto some of that audience. But this scheduling gives them 6 weeks to run a new drama alongside BGT at 9pm on Sundays (9.30pm one week).

I don't know why they didn't do the YouTube show as they did it in the US. It worked well over there as a live special and would certainly have broken up the 5 stretched semi-finals we had last week (plus, more revenue from Google/YouTube). The idea above means just 20 semi-finalists instead of 40. In turn, that means more time can be spent on the cut episodes because there ought to be a bit more drama about it.

Ends up with 19 hours rather than the 20 hours they had this year but increased ratings should make up for it. No lead-in for Corrie, but a great opportunity for a new show in the Sunday 9pm slot.
I don't see the logic in that at all - you are losing a lot more than your gaining, and why move it 2/3 weeks earlier? Cutting the live semi-finals to just two, plus a Youtube one, is a massive cutback - anyone would think the show is failing.


However, talking of Youtube it would be great if as a twist they did do a live audition episode, though whether it would work without the post production I don't know and I think one act per part would feel pretty slow, although I suspect they'd need the breaks between acts to get things moving.

Certainly not enough acts entering through Youtube to warrant a semi-final dedicated to them alone - indeed the only act I know for sure that made it to the top 40 from the Youtube auditions was Up and Over It, but I suspect there might be a couple more.



Personally I would do eight one-hour audition shows (over Sat & Sun for 4 weeks), and then the option of milking the call back stage into an extra weekend of shows (although the Champions League kind of screws things up a bit), and then seven nights of live shows, each two-hours a piece.

The extra live show comes from expanding the final over the weekend, with the top 10 performing on Saturday then voting opening for 24 hours and on Sunday the top three is revealed and they each reprise one performance, plus a few filler guests to flesh it out into a two-hour show.


As I've said before I really think Britain's Got Talent benefits from making an event of it's final week and though I get why some of you think it should air over consecutive weekends I just think it would lose momentum. It's also nice to have one week of the year when there is something worth watching on a weeknight on ITV1!
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Old 05-06-2011, 21:35
Brekkie
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If ITV did put something generic inbetween last nights shows, no doubt people would have been saying how they should have aired a Popstar to Opera Star preview instead of a one off. Something else may have got better ratings, but ITV clearly see the culmination of the next 6 weeks to outweigh the extra million or so they could have had.
Exactly. Ratings wise it probably would have been better not to bother with Corrie last Sunday and instead have aired the last of this weeks episodes last night, but they saw opportunities elsewhere.

Did the preview show actually contain any ads - within BGT itself they'd have used 24.5 mins of their allocated 40 mins, plus either side of the two shows is potentially another 14 minutes, plus at least one ad break during the last half hour of the football. I doubt they'd have been any ads left to air within the 9pm show.
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Old 05-06-2011, 21:35
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It wouldn't be The Ratings Thread without a heated disagreement somewhere down the line. I have to say, the demographics of the Australian soaps is a new one though!

Understandably, pratically everyone appears to be in agreement that Britain's Got Talent did ok but not spectacularly. Maybe the Results Show did lose out partly because of the 'smaller' lead in being offered. Frankly I prefer seeing Popstar to Operastar in that slot than a repeat but can fully understand why some are arguing that a scripted show should've taken the slot. The issue is that most ITV scripted shows are 60 minutes in length so would be hard to fit them into the schedule without pushing Britain's Got Talent to 10pm, which I believe is too late for it to start.

In regards to The Voice, I think it's an excellent idea to start it on the final weekend of Britain's Got Talent (if ITV buy it) and then run it nightly so the first live show can start on the following Saturday. Obviously the FA Cup would be a slight issue with timings, but if they air the final over two nights they should be able to get round that and help.

BBC1 had a poor night but I'm pleasently surprised by the Doctor Who figure; I thought it would be dented more than that. Maybe the average overnight has been scraped down to the obsessives now (of which I am one ) with everyone else catching up via other means. The less said about So You Think You Can Dance? the better.
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Old 05-06-2011, 21:56
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In terms of the comparison, I'd imagine Hollyoaks costs C4 much more than Neighbours/H&A does for C5 though?

Decent demos for Hollyoaks that day but even with such a high 16-34 skew, overall ratings as low as 600-700k like Thu/Fri would result in some relatively low 16-34 numbers for those particular episodes. Let's not forget this is a show, which not too long ago, was capable of 1.5m+ for its C4 airings.
Indeed, as recently as November 2009 it had a monthly overnight average of 1.54m for its first airing episodes on Channel 4 (exc +1). That means on average it was pulling 1.5m + every day just 20 months ago. Now fast forward to 2011 and it has averaged overnights of just 0.96m and 0.97m for the last 2 months respectively.

Unfortunately for Channel 4, I don't think they have anything they could replace it with that would be either a UK drama (something they desperately need) or as commercially lucrative in the 16-34 demo. Also if Channel 4 axe Hollyoaks it then paves the way for Channel 5 to move Neighbours into the 6:30pm slot which could cause a bit of a headache for C4. Would be great for C5 though being able to increase Neighbours' ratings by airing it later in the evening and banish the 6:30pm slot of death that they currently have.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:01
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I don't see the logic in that at all - you are losing a lot more than your gaining, and why move it 2/3 weeks earlier? Cutting the live semi-finals to just two, plus a Youtube one, is a massive cutback - anyone would think the show is failing.
In this respect Brekkie, as I posted a few pages back, they have no choice:

Having checked the dates next year for BGT:

7th May to 12th May --> yes, has FA Cup Final as lead-in
14th May to 19th May --> no, Champions League Final
21st May to 26th May --> no, Eurovision
28th May to 2nd June --> no, Final will be on Jubilee Weekend
4th June to 9th June --> no, Euro 2012
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:02
Dancc
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Just watched last night's CSI: NY finale. Absolutely superb episode. 1.7 not a just result but it was a chocka night of TV so will wait for the timeshift to come in. I have to say that would have been a fitting series finale, as well a season closer, but I'm glad it's coming back for more. Overall I've enjoyed it more than Vegas this season.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:03
mlt11
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So ITV Champions League Final is:

- 48% ABC1
- 43% 18-49

Whilst Sky Champions League Final is:

- 61% ABC1
- 56% 18-49

.... which is a pretty massive difference given that the content is extremely similar.

Those stats tell you an enormous amount about Sky's business and why Sky is able to charge what it does - eg ABC1s are unlikely to be too bothered about paying a £10 HD charge etc.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:06
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A lot of tape-checking for ITV's overnights:

- The Royal: 19:00 to 19:55
- PTOS: as build
- Scott & Bailey: as build
- PTOS: 22:05 to 22:30 presumably

I wonder whether we'll see a surprise and not a hefty drop for Scott & Bailey. Very good reviews again. If its 6m+, I can see ITV very quickly recommissioning it.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:08
Dancc
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Unfortunately for Channel 4, I don't think they have anything they could replace it with that would be either a UK drama (something they desperately need) or as commercially lucrative in the 16-34 demo. Also if Channel 4 axe Hollyoaks it then paves the way for Channel 5 to move Neighbours into the 6:30pm slot which could cause a bit of a headache for C4. Would be great for C5 though being able to increase Neighbours' ratings by airing it later in the evening and banish the 6:30pm slot of death that they currently have.
I'm not sure C5 would necessarily do that, even in that situation. It's a bit too risky, especially given how uncompetitive they are in the 6:30pm slot at the moment. One of the things they made sure of when it moved from the BBC was to keep things the same. This was the right strategy. Look at The Bill, if you try and force viewers to change their habits of a lifetime, it can kill a show stone dead.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:09
Grenade
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In this respect Brekkie, as I posted a few pages back, they have no choice:
The live shows could just air from Sunday 20th May - Friday 25th May instead of Monday-Saturday. The "selection" episode could air on Friday 18th from 9-10.30pm. Problem solved.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:12
rzt
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Isn't Saturday 2nd June possible for the BGT final next year anyway? I thought the Diamond Jubilee events will be Monday/Tuesday?
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:13
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I can't belive that people did not think Britain's got talent did amazing. That Rating is Amazing both shows got over 11 Million and the Results did better then all the show last year. it peaked at 14 million and that's the same as 2008 a fantastic result for it.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:14
Grenade
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Isn't Saturday 2nd June possible for the BGT final anyway? I thought the Diamond Jubilee events will be Monday/Tuesday 28th/?
26th May is Eurovision
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:14
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26th May is Eurovision
Edited my post before you posted: I meant the following Saturday (2nd June)?
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:14
C14E
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I don't see the logic in that at all - you are losing a lot more than your gaining, and why move it 2/3 weeks earlier? Cutting the live semi-finals to just two, plus a Youtube one, is a massive cutback - anyone would think the show is failing.
The earlier start would be partly to allow them to strip the 3 live shows (semi + YT) over the first May holiday weekend. it also means that they're done before The Champions League final the following weekend and Eurovision the next then it's heading into the Jubilee celebrations.

It ends up with just 1 hour less for the total series anyway. And with the Sunday final it's 5 live shows instead of 6. It's just a case of allocating more hours to the auditions, the callback stage and the actual final. Taking away hours from the semi-final stage in the process.

However, talking of Youtube it would be great if as a twist they did do a live audition episode, though whether it would work without the post production I don't know and I think one act per part would feel pretty slow, although I suspect they'd need the breaks between acts to get things moving.
They managed it in the US - I think it was pretty much done as a regular live show. Except in the VT, they'd look at the YouTube clip. I haven't seen the whole episode but that seems to be how it worked.

As I've said before I really think Britain's Got Talent benefits from making an event of it's final week and though I get why some of you think it should air over consecutive weekends I just think it would lose momentum. It's also nice to have one week of the year when there is something worth watching on a weeknight on ITV1!
I think it used to but the signs just now are that the live shows simply don't build momentum anymore and struggle to find 40 acts to fill out 5 shows across the week. Not helped by being split around Corrie with lacklustre results shows as well which are now among the lowest rating episodes of the series.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:15
D.M.N.
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Edited my post before you posted: I meant the following Saturday (2nd June)?
Maybe, but BBC could throw a curveball, when is their Party in the Palace meant to be?
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:16
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I wonder whether we'll see a surprise and not a hefty drop for Scott & Bailey. Very good reviews again. If its 6m+, I can see ITV very quickly recommissioning it.
I'm expecting a big drop off especially with the BBC running a crime drama as well. Down to earth with a bump tonight for ITV1 I reckon after the highs of the last 7 nights.

Don't think Pop to Op will have done great, it's a pretty flat show to be honest, and don't think the results show will do great numbers.
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:16
Glenn A
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those numbers are surprising

---------------- ------ 19-34 45+
Hollyoaks ------ 49% 28%
Neighbours---- 13% 69%
Home & Away 14% 73%

who would have thought Neighborus & Home & Away woud be so old, was that the case on the BBC, or did the show loose its young auidence when it moved to Channel 5?
The only people I know who watch these Aussie soaps are people over 45. I suppose it's no different to soaps like A Country Practice and Sons and Daughters that seemed to skew old. It is rare in soap conversations to hear people mention Home and Away and Neighbours, whereas 20 years ago they were right up there with the British big two. People's tastes have moved on, but the fact these two Aussie shows have a devoted following must say something for them and they must please their loyal following otherwise they would have been binned years ago. I dont watch them, but they make money for Channel 5.
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