I notice the Sunday Mirror has stopped printing ridiculous headlines on the lines of Britain's Got Talent In Crisis. 10 million is still excellent in such a competitive market and last night's was good. It might not have the Subo effect, but I'k going for 12 million for the daily shows and 14 million for the final.
For the ECL final, 13 million for ITV.

Impressivre timeshift for DW once again in the officials. The series is currently averaging 8.00m officially. At the same stage last year it was at 8.73m. So it is down 0.73m which is quite a sharp drop but I think the second half of this series will rate better than last years second half due to the scheduling changes this year.

BGT timeshifts very well, and is at 9.72m (inc. +1). Eurovision hardly moves at all but that's to be expected with it having a run time of over 3 and a half hours. TA timeshifts almost 1m.

Actually, you're wrong:

Sing if You Can Breakdown
18:45 - 3.3m (17.3%)
19:00 - 3.8m (19.2%)
19:15 - 4.0m (20.2%)
19:30 - 4.2m (22.0%)
19:45 - 4.9m (24.4%)

Excluding +1, as the above breakdown is, it was 5.7m (29.3%) for BBC1 and 3.7m (18.9%) for ITV1 from 18:45 to 19:30.

I think the year-on-year drop was almost inevitable given that they had no new doctor hype - or even a new companion (the first time thats happened since 2005). People are quite right to say Doctor Who isn't "appointment to view" TV as perhaps it was, but the timeshifts its pulling seem to bring the overall averages perfectly into line with past years.

I will be fascinated so see how the series copes in September, if its forming part of a much stronger overall schedule. There's still lots to sort out in terms of how it rubs along with Strictly or Merlin (I can't see how they can get Who finished before one or both of those start), but I think simply being part of that much stronger overall line-up will help.

Brilliant for Apprentice, I think that must be on a par with 2010's official high already (albeit that was dragged down by the Beeb asking for BARB to report it as one two hour show).

Surprised BGT didn't timeshift better. Seems some viewers just gave it a miss in favour of Eurosong. Great figures for Eurovision coming so close to a 10m average. Should secure it a Top 20 entry this year.


Not quite. The 10m figure quoted above includes the repeat on a different channel. I suspect it got about 9.5m on ITV1. That's what you need to compare year on year.


Apples with oranges again. Eurovision didn't have an instant repeat on another channel one hour later to aggregate its BBC1 figures with and therefore make a like with like comparison.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Eurovision "won".


Admitting to reading the Sunday Mirror.

Very brave of you, sir.

I always qualify any references to the Mirror by saying I stumbled across a copy in a pub or at a relative's house, etc.


OK, so it beat it about 1.54 to 1. That's "nearly 2 to 1", isn't it?

And it will very clearly have been at 5m+ at some point in its last 15 minutes if it averaged 4.9m.

I assume SCD will be back on Saturday 1st October? Presumably they will again split the opener Friday/Saturday, so if DW returns on 27th August (bank holiday weekend), the 6th episode would air on Saturday 1st as lead-in to the debut Saturday 2nd half of the SCD opener. Plenty of time for BBC1 to get a 45 mins DW and 90 mins SCD in from 6.15 before a TXF auditions show at 8.30pm.

From DS:

"Britain's Got Talent showed its resilience on ITV1 when its audience jumped to 9.63m (42.2%) at 8pm (+1: 371k), having fallen to 8.1m against Eurovision."


Except Britain's Got Talent won head-to-head.

Looks like they did, which isn't too surprising as BGT is the sort of show to soak up a lot of casual viewers, whereas a drama would probably make up most of the shortfall via timeshift. Eurovision did indeed do very well, and it looks even better when you remember it was sub-6m last year!


It got 9.63m without +1 and the same show last year had 9.44m so it was up anyway, and last year there wasn't a +1 screening to dent the ITV1 showing's audience.


Well for a start it didn't 'win' anyway as BGT was easily ahead during the time the two were head to head (Eurovision had 7.4m in the overnights in that slot, so c.7.6m in the officials). I'm not arguing this again Robbie, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I (and others) think +1 should be included, you (and others) don't. There is no right or wrong answer and there is no point in pulling people up or picking holes in their analysis over it. The whole thread doesn't have to agree on this issue and people can include +1 or not in their analysis, and if you disagree with it then just ignore it. Simples.

Me including +1 has nothing to do with any favouritism between channels by the way, I've done it since C4+1 launched in 2007 (I think it was 2007) and have been including +1 long before ITV launched their +1 channel. Just in case you thought I was just doing it because it was ITV.


Lol - very brave, I'll agree with you there!

BGT timeshifted by 1.35m. I think that's a good timeshift. Explain how that could be classed as bad?

BGT had 9.6m excluding +1. That's up 0.2m y-o-y. Regarding +1, it's hard to know where to stand with it. I think in BGT's case most of these will be new viewers and not people watching it again. I think it will become evident from the live shows as it starts at 19.30 and ends at 21.00, therefore the same viewer can't watch the +1 channel too as the show will still be showing on the main ITV1 channel.

Robbie can i ask why is it that you love BBC And hate ITV. and why can't you just Accept that Britain's got talent got 10.0m last night If the BBC got a plus 1 channel would you be accepting it then.

What sort of timeshift were you expecting? The 1.4m timeshift for BGT was its biggest ever. In fact, for a non-scripted show that must be one of the biggest timeshifts I've ever seen!


Yes, but you originally said you thought it averaged 5-6m for the 7.30-8pm period, which it didn't.

I think that looks about right, I'm sure they'd rather save Doctor Who until September but with 13 episodes of Merlin to fit in I don't think they can. Who launching on August Bank Holiday means Merlin would end on New Year's Eve, but I suspect they'll double up either the launch or the finale to get it done the week before (the Merlin finale would do well on Xmas Eve).

Last year's first Saturday Strictly was only 65 minutes, and ran from 6:00 to 7:05, with Merlin from 7:05 to 7:50. I suspect they'll do the same again (maybe Who before Strictly though) with XF at 7:50 to avoid a clash with either of BBC1's big guns.

ITV1 will be anticipating next weekend and the following week with the ECL final and the daily BGT shows. It does seem that ITV now have a decent roster of hits and are starting to make a comeback in the factual field with Strangeways and The Lakes. Ditching old clunkers like The Bill seems to have been a good idea.

But you can't expect to boldly assert that "BGT got 10m" and then not have those who take a counterveiling view on your approach to clarify, for the benefit of others, that on what we consider the proper approach, it got 9.6m.

I didn't bring this issue about.


In terms of reported official BARB ratings for Saturday 14th May, Eurovision "won". That's what I meant, as you know.

If BGT had managed to attract a peak audience of 12.9m, then it would probably have "won".

In fairness, if BGT had a headstart on Eurovision then it's unfair to say that it "won" the because it would benefit from having grown its audience already before Eurovision got on the air.

Much as SCD tends to lead XF if there is a small overlap at the start. Although on those occasions you can't shut Robbie up for claiming that Strictly won, even if XF gets the higher ratings overall.

In terms of the +1 thing, it's entirely relevant to ITV. If the ratings are up including +1, then for ITV and its advertisers, the ratings are up. They didn't add the +1 channel to lose viewers.




I was thinking maybe a new Little Ant & Dec! Although the new Little Ant would need a receeding hairline which could be tricky. For it to work they'd need Ant & Dec to get fully involved, though - doing things like Undercover again.

January 2012:
6.30pm - Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway
7.30pm - Pokerface (new hosts)
8.30pm - Take Me Out

Obviously ITV or other indies might have some cracking ideas just waiting to anchor their Saturday night schedules in January. But recent history suggests that they don't. And I'm 99% sure that the above line-up would make a significant improvement on the past couple of years if they're determined to keep DOI on Sundays only.

Of course, rather than ITV buying Gallowgate, it might be a good acquisition for Syco. After all, Ant & Dec already do BGT & Red or Black. The team at Syco were higher ups on Saturday Night Takeaway in its early years so could produce any revival. Although there's the slight issue that Adam Crozier's head might explode at the prospect of Simon Cowell and Ant & Dec teaming up like that! So I doubt it will happen.

Somewhat unrelated but they piloted Takeaway for FOX many years ago. That was a mistake. They should have taken it to Disney or Nickelodeon - who actually programme Saturday nights. Stick some of their stars on it as hosts and it could be a hit.

So despite rzt stating in his initial ratings post that BGT's rating (and all of ITV's rating) included +1, and me posting a link to the official DS ratings roundup reporting the rating excluding +1 and the separate +1 figure, you felt that me quoting the +1 figure would confuse people and and make people think it had 10m without +1, and had to pull me up and 'correct' (in your view) me. Also, who is this 'we' that you refer to, because I don't think the thread as a whole has come to a final view on this issue (and I doubt it ever will). Perhaps when you refer to figures without +1 and do not mention the +1 rating I should clarify the rating to what I (and some others) view as the correct rating 'for the benefit of others'.


Eurovision didn't have a head start, both it and BGT began at 8pm.


Completely agree.

Yes, I'm sure the advertisers are delighted with ITV's "two for one" offer.

Indeed, here's one of ITV's recent pitches to the ad agencies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0-2n...eature=related

I'm fine with that, if you want to do that

That would work really well, although I agree about Takeaway and Ant and Dec needing to be actively involved. I think the time is right to bring it back and it could do very well. Bringing it back in January not February is key too as it would have a few weeks to build up an audience before the start of Let's Dance in February.

Poker Face was a terrific format and with ITVS on board the cost would probably not be as much of a factor. Same goes for Duel, although they'd need a new host for that too as Nick Hancock was very dreary last time.

As for the schedule, no doubt ITV would want to stretch Takeaway to 75 mins, and they already have done that to TMO, and with TV Burp also in the mix there probably wouldn't be room for PokerFace, but that could go alongside BGT in April.

Fair enough. But ultimately you must agree if we kept on doing that it would be a total waste of time and would clog up the thread. Perhaps putting (incl +1) or (excl +1) in brackets next to the rating would be better - I do usually try to do that but clearly forgot earlier.

Neat idea, although doesn't Ant & Dec's BGT auditions commitments mean that wouldn't be possible in January next year? I think PokerFace is dead though - it's a good format but it'd be about 5 years since the last series and ITV don't usually bring back shows which haven't been on air for that long unless they were 'classics'. Knowing ITV they'll probably put the next series of Primeval in a plum slot , and go with something like: 19:00- TV Burp, 19:30- Primeval, 20:30- Take Me Out, 21:45- The Jonathan Ross Show.

If they can try and get Ant & Dec to do Saturday Night Takeaway from January, I think the following schedule would be pretty good: 19:00- TV Burp, 19:30- Saturday Night Takeaway, 20:45- Take Me Out, 22:00- Jonathan Ross

No big hitters but certainly better than the last couple of years. Although instead of Jonathan Ross' show, they might show a movie at that time due to using up 36mins of their allocated 40 by the time it'd begin. Even though I used to think TMO was better off earlier in the evening, ratings for the last series showed it was capable of a good audience post 9pm and there's not many other ITV shows which are capable of getting the audience it does post-9pm on a Saturday so I'd leave it for that sort of later timeslot.

Takeaway was 75 minutes anyway, wasn't it?

In the later years it was, but it wasn't really necessary and it was only an hour for the first few series.

Why brave, it's not like admitting to reading the Daily Mail.

WTAF at SYTYCD. That is all.

The BBC treat Doctor Who like crud. They're lucky it's so bloody good or viewers wouldn't keep up with it all! It performed admirably between the sh!tstorm any way and will timeshift brilliantly so not to worry.