May I intervene in this C5 debate as an impartial observer?

The over-riding thing about ratings for everything except "big event TV" is that what channel a programme is on is key. You can put it down to reputation, brand or EPG position or whatever you want to call it but it is key.

Put the same programme on BBC1 or C5 and it'll get four or five times the audience on BBC1.

This situation applies even more to digital and pay channels (even allowing for their lower reach) - eg Primeval ratings on Watch but that's another matter.

As far as C5 is concerned it seems to me that it needs to do something to make a step-change - something that will get large numbers of people seriously considering watching it on a regular basis rather than not even bothering to look at what is on the channel.

How to do that I don't know. But one suggestion would be something major on the sports front. Not bits and pieces like the Europa League but something which will get many millions saying I MUST watch that.

If BBC tries to get MOTD on the cheap I would go for that. Even if it's loss-making on the face of it, C5would also have to factor in the scope for massively increased cross-promotion of other C5 programmes and also the improvement to its repuation / brand.

Of course they have. The last aired only a couple of years ago. To rejog your memory, here are some examples:

Minder (2009)
Tripping Over (2006)
Perfect Day (2005)
Murder Prevention (2004)

Further to my above post, it's a long time ago but prior to 1994 I don't think Fox was really considered a big TV network in the US.

Then in 1994 Fox won the Sunday NFC half of the NFL contract from CBS. It was an absolute shockwave. They then immediately recruited Pat Summerall and John Madden (from CBS) to be their lead commentary team (the equivalent today of recruiting Tyler and Gray pre scandal).

In an instant the whole US TV landscape was changed.

Of course every situation is different but C5 need to do something like that.

I think C4 needs a bit of work on the ratings front. It's weird how a commercially funded channel seems far less commercially minded than BBC1 and it does seem in some cases that they just don't mind a bunch of low rating shows so perhaps they don't need any work at all.

They've got some hits like Million Pound Drop, My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, One Born Every Minute and now it seems 24 Hours in A&E.

They need to sort out comedy - both scripted and unscripted. 10 O'Clock Live is basically Guardian TV. And they need a few sitcoms as well. Just something simple like the US imports that do so well for them on E4. 20 somethings living in London, maybe with a little twist - come up with 5 or 6 good characters, get some good writers involved. Simple, not pretentious. Won't win BAFTA's, but people might watch.

Same with drama - there's not much of it just now. They need something a bit noisier like No Angels or Shameless used to be instead of one-off short run series that just win BAFTA's.

I'd probably also go for The Voice. If the BBC are already sniffing around then C4 can hardly get stick when it comes to PSB requirements. And they're probably better positioned to do it as a younger more credible alternative to X Factor.


I'd guess that's the plan. Of course, come next January, it's just 2 hours on a Monday night.

When you look at it like that it makes you think it's not as bad as you first though, but then if you actually think about it - this shows that C5 have only had 1 'main' UK drama in 5 years.

I know Minder was a bit of a flop and therefore the arguement of " well it doesn't give them much confidence to do it again." They really need more UK drama to increase there hit rate. I'm not saying there've got to have drama every other week. But even if they had 2 new UK drama's it'd be a substantial improvement and there'd have a much bigger chance of finding a hit.

You never know, maybe Rupert will get on the phone and offer some advice to Richard Desmond on how to turn an also-ran into the #1 network?

I suppose C5 have made some big plays - the Australian soaps and now Big Brother (although that's hardly going to bring in a massive audience).

can I just say that my "Jedwood" has not been meant as an insult, that is honestly how I thought it was spelt, I just never had reason to check it.

and yes it should be Geordie the "The Only Way is Geordie Girls" is the joke, not the mispelilng. Obviously its made up of "The Only Way is Essex. Georide Shore & Chelsea Girls"

Although of course if C4 were continuing with it I'm not sure you'd be saying the same thing. I do honestly think though C5 are doing more damage than good by introducing Big Brother to it's line up considering they'd got a fairly stable post-watershed schedule thanks to CSI1, CSI2, CSI3, CSI4, CSI5 etc. etc. etc. Displacing them for Big Brother risks pissing off a large chunk of the C5 faithful!



Completely agree - and they really need to point out that not only are these shows about appealing to the masses, but they're also about bringing in the funds which enable them to do shows like Dispatches, two-hour documentaries nobody watches and the various slot fillers after C4 News. I don't think they ever made that point enough when they were getting stick for Big Brother.

I also agree they need some repeatable mass produced UK sitcoms rather than just a six part series here and there just to kick start the channels revival - commission a couple of series to run for 8 weeks in the Friday night 9pm slot and if they're any good bring them back for 13 weeks and then show the more traditional C4 sitcom at 10pm after them.


And we've talked a bit about C4 drama and I definately think the time is right to axe Shameless - axing that 22 part series would probably enable three new 8-part series to launch, and then for future series I'd cap them at 13 episodes - although I do think there is room on C4 for one or two longer running (22 episode) drama series too - something along the lines of Packed to the Rafters in Australia, so a bit edgy, but actually relatively mainstream - but high quality stuff none the less.

Next year I'd make the commissioned 22-episodes of Shameless the last, split into a 12 part and 10 part series, possibly even holding back the 10 episodes till 2013, though I think burning them off sooner rather than later is in their interests. I'd then look to commission around two to three UK series to air on Tuesdays the rest of the year. Hopefully Sirens will do well enough to return too.

Most of it I'd suggest being Shameless/Teachers esque in spirit, rather than anything heavy, with maybe one more ambitious project, likely to be a co-production with foreign stations. I know C4 have already signed up for the sequal to Pillars of the Earth, but I doubt that'll be on air until 2013.

Per Media Guardian (article published earlier this morning but I don't think it was posted on here):

"Proposal to axe some BBC2 daytime shows to save money 'gaining traction'"

"Proposal to ditch shows as cost-cutting measure gaining ground among BBC managers leading Delivering Quality First initiative"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...-quality-first

We'll wait and see, but they could have easily filled 10am-7pm for the last two weeks with the French Open rather than putting it on the red button. Even with the increased costs to make it fit for broadcast (i.e. studio, on screen host) it would still surely work out cheaper.

And talking of which tomorrow BBC2 is going back to the days of Grandstand with an afternoon of Tennis and Racing. They're putting Andy Murray on BBC2, but as they have racing from Epsom they'll be interupting coverage of the tennis to switch to the racing throughout the afternoon, with both uninterupted on the red button (presumably only the tennis on Freeview).

And they were dreadful.

Stuart Barnes is so biased it is untrue, and he is dreadful to boot.

Thanks goodness he is not involved this year.

I like the comment which said replacing BBC2's daytime schedule with the old testcard would be preferable - not only would it save money, it would also be more entertaining than Flog It!

The advice Murdoch could offer down the phone would probably be very simple: invest, invest, invest. Both with Fox in the US and with Sky in the UK, he used sheer financial muscle and 'loss leaders' to force his way in - principally via sports rights.

Does Desmond have the same instinct? Comparing their two newspaper empires, it would appear not. Desmond cuts costs and opts for cheap populism to make a buck with The Star and the Express - whereas Murdoch doesn't shy away from making losses in order to secure the broader success and status of The Sun and The Times.

Of course, there's nothing inherently wrong with Desmond's approach - he's a businessman looking for profit afterall. But it does mean I don't expect to see radical acquisitions or investment thats going to propel Channel 5 past the other terrestrials.

Somewhat surprising news - NBC are to bring back Fear Factor. The show, which debuted on the network in 2001 and ran for 6 seasons. In 2004, a season finale drew 18.6m viewers and an 8.4 rating among adults 18-49 but it went into decline quickly.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/06/nbc-...eality-series/

The show will be produced by Endemol USA and their go-to showrunner, Matt Kunitz (Wipeout, 101 Ways To Lose A Gameshow).

No word on scheduling but it's likely to be held as an early cancellation replacement or possibly run in the Monday 8-10pm slot in December (assuming The Sing-Off wraps at the end of November sweeps).

To add to that C5 also aired two series of Suburan Shoutout in 2006/7 and a two-part drama called Kitchen, starring Eddie Izzard, in 2007. Still a pretty woeful number of UK drama.

Surburban Shootout was a sitcom not a drama, they also had two follow ups to Perfect Day.

Aside from Murder Prevention, Channel 5 never thought about doing a British crime drama which would be compatible with their US shows and could act as a lead in.


I think Channel 4 and 5 should do a drama pilot season where they select 6-8 drama pilots and air them weekly and the best rated or acclaimed gets a series order, BBC Three did a few years ago and picked up Being Human and Channel 4 has done it twice with comedy pilots.

Agreed.

My previous post was really just saying what needed to happen IF C5 was to make a step change.

But to be fair Desmond, it may be that the status quo will generate more profits than any possible step-change.

The ability of C5 to make a step-change upwards depends on several things but in summary:

1) the resources available to C5 for addtional investment
2) the size of the available market
3) the strength of the competition

It may well be that Desmond's analysis of 2) and 3) above has been such that he just doesn't think C5 has had any real chance of successfully making a step-change UP TO NOW.

So he has been content to bumble along with an essentially minimum cost cheap and cheerful product (hope nobody takes offence at that description but I think it's a fair one).

However, it could be that things change in the future IF the forthcoming cuts weaken the BBC enough to open up various opportunities.

23 to 25 degrees tomorrow for the majority of England, which will almost certainly dent the Football, Doctor Who and BGT.

I don't think a "big sport thing" would work unless the general attitude of CH5 changed as well.

A good analogy might be a rather icky shop having the deal of a lifetime on some product to get people in. People will come in, buy the product, and hurridly leave holding their nose.

A prestige event just will not work if the channel is perceived as trashy/explotative/junk.


CH4 out-trash CH5 though.

BGT famously recorded a 19m peak audience in a sweltering 80deg+ heatwave. Even the 6.30pm performance show averaged 16m IIRC.

BGT has a good track record for holding up in the overnights. England matches will always do OK, and 4.45pm is hardly as ratings-killing as a 2pm or 3pm KO would have been.

DW behaves the opposite. That will be hit, but probably more so by the football-lead-into-BGT combo.

If these results shows work out and the show does well against DWTS they might add the results show to their Tuesday night line-up. How this will work with Biggest Loser I have no idea and if they will go up against Glee or DWTS results remains to be seen but if it turns out to be a monster hit nothing will stop them I'm sure.

A few things from TV Scoops on Twitter:

- 'The Children of Britain', a documentary about inspirational British children who can do extraordinary things, airs on Monday 20th June ITV1
- 'Babies Behind Bars', a 2-part documentary about female inmates who give birth in Indiana Women’s Prison in US , will air in summer on ITV1. 'Babies Behind Bars', which had already been made for a US network, will form part of ITV's season of 'Extraordinary Families' documentaries.
- A new version of action-based gameshow 'Fort Boyard' - this time for contestants aged 18 or under - is currently in development for ITV. Foundation TV, who are developing new 'Fort Boyard' for ITV & Disney, are looking for contestants aged 13-15 & 18 yrs: http://bit.ly/kH4BGh

8pm BBC1 Andrew Marr’s Megacities 2.3m (10.5%)

8pm Ch4 Three in a Bed 969,340 (4.4%),215,000 (0.9%) C4+1

9pm BBC3 Misbehaving Mums 252,467 (1.1%)

http://www.attentional.com/screenwatch/

Not sure BGT will be near 10m, percentage share suggests only 22m watching in 8pm hour.

Thurs 3rd June

ITV1
19:30 BGT - 9.28m (43.19%)
* +1 300,400 (1.29%)
21:00 Coronation ST - 9.88m (42.11%)
* +1 484,800 (2.38%)
21:30 BGT Results - 9.29m (39.1%)
* +1 416,000 (2.54%)


Figures from Broadcast (and tape checked)


So an increase in ratings for BGT last night compared to Wednesday night when it was against Waterloo Rd. Looks like the severe low rating for Andrew Marr's Megacity helped it negate the warm weather factor.