Woeful. BBC Light Entertainment needs one hell of a revamp. When you think about it, they've only had 1 major successful format for the past decade and that's Strictly Come Dancing, the rest have been average or poor.

SYTYCD would have worked if it was shorter and inbetween BGT and X Factor, but its a liability because when it was on last January it was in the shadow of Got To Dance despite getting better ratings.

More proof that BBC LE is a shambles now and ITV is in the driving seat . Just think back to when they had a massive roster of Saturday hits and, apart from Strictly and Total Wipeout, what do they have now? Don't Scare The Hare, SYTYCD, lottery rubbish, all programmes people run a mile from. However, the third button has rediscovered its LE credentials by making lavishly produced talent/singing contests, dating games and one offs with top pop acts.

As scores stand I'm sure going for Euro 2012 is looking less appealing to ITV. Montenegro v Sweden on a Monday night, anyone? Long way to go yet though.

That's a reasonably strong performance from Britain's Got Talent, especially from the result show. Coronation Street has done well throughout the week. EastEnders has held up well. Have I Got News For You seems to be struggling now; even without tough opposition it's not hitting 5m.

Although BBC LE don't have as many of the "big hitters" as ITV, they have more of the solid, if unspectacular, 4-5.5m performers: In It To Win It, Casualty, Who Dares Wins, Total Wipeout, Comedy Roadshow, even Tonight's The Night to name just some. They usually dominate Q1 and Q3 viewing on Saturday nights and from next week till when TXF returns, BBC1 will most likely be beating ITV1 on Saturdays most weeks.

Stuck in the past Fudd?? 2012 maybe?

Anyway, Euro 2008 did well enough for BBC and ITV with no England.

Lottery Rubbish? You mean the perfectly acceptable quiz shows which nearly always achieve 5m+

I was too slow changing it, dammit.

You're right, but I'm not sure if ITV would want exclusive rights to a tournament without England's participation.

Yeah, primetime broadcasts of Euro 2008 (with no England involved) averaged 5.5m. Looking at ITV's summer schedule for the next few weeks, I can't see anything on weeknights at 9pm getting 5.5m, maybe apart from the first episode of Injustice!

Having said that, I don't think they'd want exclusive coverage if England weren't involved but I think they will end up qualifying anyway.

Of course there are a few unknown variables about 2012. IF ITV got exclusive rights, might BBC News downplay the competition which in turn might lower interest? I guess it depends if Radio 5 has radio rights - are these decided yet or could Talksport end up with exclusives on the radio side?

If the BBC had no involvement, I think they might drop it down their running order on their news and magazine shows which might lower the overall interest in the competition. But maybe the Euros are too big for the BBC to take that risk?

I dont think a few rungs of a running order would make much difference-the tournament would stand on its own either way.
Im confused here-has something been reported suggesting ITV would go it alone or is it just speculation from this thread?

No match for ITV's big guns and not a patch on what would have occupied this slot in years gone by like Noel's House Party. I know the BBC have Strictly, which is as big a hit as the Cowell shows, and its more intelligent offerings like QI and HIGNFY do well with their audiences, but there just isn't the big roster of ratings smashes like there was in the Cotton and Grade eras.

There is the possibility of ITV going it alone (the rights arent awarded yet and BBC may back off for cost reasons, particularly as the rights owners are looking for a lot more than for previous tournaments)

I still think the Euros will be shared as one broadcaster might find it a bit much to cover. Also would ITV be keen on showing two obscure teams in peak time in a 0-0 stalemate?

That hardly makes it rubbish though. Just because it's no match for Cowell shows. Why does it have to be? It's just a basic quiz format. It is perfectly accceptable and watchable and the viewing figures reflect that.

I didn't realise Casualty was a LE show! Although that would explain some of the acting...

The thing is, ITV do also have some solid performers like that, such as Take Me Out, Harry Hill's TV Burp, You've Been Framed, Push The Button and All Star Family Fortunes (when scheduled properly it gets 4-5m even away from TXF). They don't always perform as consistently as BBC1's solid performers but they generally do a decent job and tend to skew younger than BBC1's LE offerings.

They'll be looking to Popstar To Operastar and Penn and Teller: Fool Us in particular to put in some solid performances over the Summer. PSTOS is an interesting one. It averaged 3.9m last year which isn't great but it's in a different (probably better) slot this time and has a huge advantage of basically having a 30 minute advert in a BGT sandwich the night before its debut. If it fails to top 4.5m tomorrow then there's a problem as it should do 7m+ tonight. They definitely seem to be going for ABC1s, as shown in particular by the choice of new judges (Vanessa Mae and Simon Callow), so a Sunday slot seems appropriate.

P&T got 4.1m for its pilot in January, again on a Friday at 9pm. Against Hustle that was a reasonable performance, but Saturday nights in the Summer are a totally different ballgame and it won't have a great lead in. If it can do 4m+ then I think they'll be pleased. The big names involved should really mean it doesn't completely sink on its opening night. The Marriage Ref and Show Me The Funny are clearly attempts to improve their poor post-watershed LE slate, but I'm dubious about the chances of both, and for the latter, the timeslot will be vital.

Looking ahead to the Autumn the Jonathan Ross chatshow is probably the main new show, but they'll be hoping new gameshows High Stakes and Holding Out For A Hero can also pull in decent audiences, and then transfer to a slot away from TXF in the future (as The Cube has, with admittedly middling results). They really should be targeting Michael McIntyre for a Saturday night show too after how well he's been received on BGT. So essentially whilst they have a solid LE slate right now, with plenty of big hits, they need to work on getting more 4-6m shows, and this year they're certainly trying to find some.

as rzt said the 2008 averaged 5.5m. Every euro side has players in the Premier League so the teams arent as obsure as you might think.

Scheduling Emmerdale & Corrie might be a challenge though - they might need to take a 2 week holiday.

*Soap forum explodes with anger at the thought of such a ridiculous idea*

Thanks for the info.

Though cost or no cost, its hard to imagine the BBC not being involved in such a huge national event.

Good analysis there D.M.N.

I think that looks a little bit high for the performances and a little bit low for the results. I think we're looking at just above 11m for the performances and just above 13m for the results, peaking at ~15m. Predictions:

Football: 5.8m (overall coverage)
BGT Main Show: 11.3m
Operastar: 7.4m
BGT Results: 13.2m

SYTYCD Performances: 2.5m
Doctor Who: 4.7m
Who Dares Wins: 3.2m
Casualty: 3.5m
SYTYCD Results: 2.4m
Live At The Apollo: 2.2m
Comedy Roadshow: 4.6m (clever scheduling there)


It's been a mixed week quality wise, as Monday's show was good, Tuesday's was mediocre, whilst Wednesday's and Thursday's were pretty awful. Last night's was really good though and easily the best of the week, so it hasn't exactly been consistent. I think ITV will be happy with the week and the series overall, as unlike last year it hasn't gone down every night, and has remained consistently in the 9-10m area (bar Wednesday's results for obvious reasons). The judges have worked well and I think all 3 should return next year, and Cowell isn't really needed. They need less joke acts though, as that's been a problem for a couple of years now. The US show generally has 1-2 per show, and they have 12 acts per show rather than 8, so a few over the week would be better. The novelty has worn off the stripped format and I agree it isn't needed now (and yes I realise I keep saying that...).


I'll add the 5 minute peaks for 2007 and 2008:

2007 - Performances: 12.7m, Results: 11.9m
2008 - Performances: 14.0m, Results: 14.4m

They have a good opportunity for an 'anti-audience' and could dump the soaps on ITV2. They've done it on the odd occasion before, and frequently do it with Loose Women.

It's all speculation at the moment, but if (and that's a big IF) the BBC don't get the rights to Euro 2012, maybe ITV won't just go alone but team up with C4 or C5?

Mlt11 said the other day the Euro 2008 cost was £50m, presumably split 50/50 between BBC and ITV, working out at about £1.9m per match (plus production costs) which is relatively low compared to most football rights. Assuming the rights will cost quite a bit higher for Euro 2012, maybe ITV could pay the lion's share of the rights for about 20 of the 30 or so matches (including all England games and big matches) for something like £55m (£2.8m/match) and C4/C5 pitch in ~£15m for 10 matches (£1.5m/match) where they would get a few high profile-ish group games.

That would be a win-win scenario for all those parties involved IMO. UEFA would get significantly more money than four years ago, ITV would get all the England matches and nearly all of the big matches at a profitable price and be able to show the soaps on some nights so there isn't a long break, and C4/C5 would get some decent Euro matches relatively on the cheap (compared to how football rights usually cost) which would boost their ratings 2-3 fold vs. the slot average and much higher among the lucrative males 16-34s. And as we were saying the other day, this would be a big move for C5 too in terms of introducing a wider audience to the channel at a reasonably affordable price. Or is this a very unrealistic idea?!

That average is dire, and even worse when you consider So You Think aired during the winter/spring when ratings are supposed to be higher.

The show will really look like a Aldi version of the talent show format tonight, with the results scheduled just before the BGT results.

Nobody at the BBC seems to have noticed yet that running dozens of different singing and dancing formats all year round for many years is no longer working.

Maybe people see this is derivative and when the BBC try to derive a format that ITV does better at, then it never seems to work. Anyone remember their international rival to You've Been Framed, Caught in the Act, which was the most cynical cash in ever and even the BBC admitted it was a derivative format.

I very much doubt SYTYCD will be back. The series just hasn't caught the public's imagination at all.
Speaking of dancing, is the BBC planning a tribute to Flick Colby, their main choreographer in the seventies?