Now, Superman pretty much owns everyone, but when it comes to the Flash, things get different because of the speed advantage that the Flash has over Kal-El.

Whereas Superman can travel near to the speed of light, the Flash can travel faster than it, and can obviously become one with the Speed Force.

But which flash would have the wherewithall to utilise that to beat Superman?

Personally, I think only Barry Allen would have the forcefulness to go the whole hog. Jay Garrett would probably give Superman a second chance, Wally West would mess up somehow, and Bart Allen would just stand around making wisecracks!

The Flash. Only because I hate how Supes has to be the best at everything.

Jay Garrick has seven decades of experience at the superhero stuff. I think he'd have a good chance of beating Supes-and if he couldn't, he'd just talk him into giving up and make him feel like a naughty kid in the process. You don't mess with Grandpa Jay.

I think they covered this in an episode of Smallville with Bart Allen. The Flash won, although it was only a friendly rivalry rather than a proper fight. Superman fans would probably say that Smallville Clark isn't proper Superman yet though.

Smellviille Clark isn't and will never by any kind of Superman.

As for the pointlessness of the original question, the obvious answer is Superman. The Flash is really a light-weight, whose slight speed-advantage will only be of much use if he decides to use it to run away from the inevitable ass-kicking he would otherwise receive.

ROFL @ Smellville

Ah, but what if the Flash was like Kingdom Come Flash where he existed at such a fast speed he was intangible? He could move through Superman and remove his heart or something like that.

Spread the word.


Wouldn't work. He'd need to go solid to grab the heart, at which point the best case scenario is that his hand would be stuck in Superman's invulnerable body. But if we're just picking different incarnations of the characters at random, the Silver Age Superman was fast enough to travel through time without breaking a sweat, something The Flash would usually need that silly cosmic threadmill for.

For anyone keeping score at home, that's 2-0 in Superman's favor now. Best of 5?

It depends on if that particular manifestation of the Flash has the ability to travel through time as a result of his interactions with the Speed Force, which has happened more than once.

If so, Flash wins, since he travels back to Smallville and kills Clark as a baby before his cells absorb the solar energy that gives him his power.

But that's been retconned in and out so many times it's hard to judge and the Flash may be unwilling to do so given the temporal effects may mean he dies too (how many times would everyone on Earth die without Superman's presence in history?). Without that it's hard to see how at their current defined power levels Flash could do anything more than reach a stalemate.

Phazer

Wouldn't work. As you already pointed out, the temporal repercussions would erase The Flash from history as well. But since you went for the time-traveling version of Flash, I'm picking the Superman that came with super-powers right out of the box. Even as a toddler, this version of Superman is so superior, that it only takes the combination of super-intelligence and super-ventriloquism to trick Flash into accidentally killing a younger of himself.

Superman: 3
Flash: 0

Best of... 7?

What you're suggesting is effectively the Flash using similar powers to the Vision. However, Superman's internal organs would still be Kryptonian, and therefore virtually indestructible. So it wouldn't matter what speed the Flash was using, he could not harm Superman.

.... unless he was using a Kryptonite scalpel. In which case, a sufficiently fast Flash could carve up Superman before he realised he was under attack.

Ah, but wasn't it established during one of the 'Crises' that the Flash is outside of reality when he's in the Speed Force?

If he were to zip back in time and kill Kal-El before he became powerful, then travels back forward safely coccooned in the Speed Force, he should emerge unscathed into the alternate reality.

Superman 3
Flash 1

Virtually but not totally - I'm pretty sure that an intangible Flash would be able to focus one part of his body to vibrate at a speed, possibly in excess of the speed of light, which would generate enough power to mush up Superman's innards.

No more than the murderer deserves. If you've ever read that article theorizing on the first episode of self-stimulation experienced by Superboy?

Millions of Kryptonian sperm, leaving little blue trails as they zip through the atmosphere, riddling the Smallville home like instant woodworm escaping at near light speed in all directions, seeking to impregnate the nearest woman. Having no other imperative, the supersperm would seek out eggs via the most direct route, straight through the unlucky ladies bodies. Thus seriously increasing the chances of peritonitis, or some other potentially fatal conditions. Those women unfortunate enough to actually become pregnant, would be carrying children eventually capable of kicking their way out of the womb using super strength, or acting like a microwave oven and cooking mom from the inside out as heat and x-ray vision develops.

Do you think Martha had to supply Clark with a supply of Kryptonite-soaked Kleenex?

If we take their speed as being more or less equal, I think Flash would win, for the reason that he's more experienced in running along the ground - he's run all the way around the world loads of times, whereas Superman prefers to fly. So Flash would be surer of his footing and more aware of obstacles.

Superman doesn't care about obstacles. He just runs through them.

Then that would slow him down, however imperceptibly - it would be enough to make a difference. I'm also thinking of things like putting his foot into potholes, finding bridges across chasms, all that kind of stuff. Flash would know the course better than Superman.

It depends on the incarnation of Superman and the incarnation of Flash that are to be fighting one another.

You can't just say "Flash or Superman, who wins?", because that's stupid, Superman is clearly the winner, because taking the high end feats of both Comic Book characters and comparing them puts Superman so far above Flash it would be incomprehendable.

Superman, at some of his highest end feats, has tugged an entire galaxy worth of planet to a different area of the universe using giant chains connecting each planet. At times he has simply sneezed and destroyed an entire uninhabited solar system.

The Flash simply has nothing on that level, speed or strength wise, so Superman wins.


End of discussion.

I believe that in all incarnations, the speed of the Flash has exceeded that of Superman, and that gives him an edge.

Found this on another site, a list of races between Flash and Superman:

Superman #199 (August 1967) - tie
Flash #175 (December 1967) - tie
World’s Finest #198–199 (November–December 1970) - Flash
DC Comics Presents #1–2 (August–October 1978) - Flash
The Adventures of Superman #463 (February 1990) - Flash

And what good does superior speed offer the Flash? Running away isn't a viable tactic to defeat Superman, nor does his speed suddenly give Flash the strength, power and defensive ability to defeat Superman.

Well, as the Flash can move faster than the speed of light and enter the Speed Force, he'd be able to utilise aspects of physics that are not available to Superman.

Like I mentioned earlier, he could quite turn Superman's innards to mush if he passed through him vibrating faster than light.

Evidence that he could do such a thing to Superman, or any Kryptonian?

Speed could certainly use his ability to steal momentum, an ability I didn;t know existed until moments ago. Speed hypothesized that he could steel Supermans momentum and stop him stone dead, but in doing so would devastate a massive portion of the planet.


This is however against weak incarnations of Superman. All evidence i've seen points towards Flash having no defence against Superdick Prime or Pre-Crisis Superman. Superdick Prime has no weakness, with Magic and Kryptonite no longer affecting him in the slightest. Survived the explosion of the Universe.

Pre-Crisis Superman can lug an entire galaxy worth of planets at FTL speeds to a distnat part of the universe, has such power that a single sneeze can destroy a solar system. Brushes off punches that have the equivalent power of 100 galaxies behind them and broke dimensional barriers by travelling at a FTL speed of unknown times faster than light, supposedly fast enough that he can leave the multivierse.


Can Flash even survive off of Earth?

Oh, I thought the question was who would win a race!

If it's about a fight Superman wins in seconds, unless it's a sneak attack.

Barry Allen, Wally West and Bart Allen can all outrun Superman.

Jay Garrick can't.

The last time Superman tried to catch up with Barry Allen because he thought they were more or less equals, Barry said "Clark, please... those were for charity." and went into hyperspeed, leaving Clark in the dust. This happened in Flash Rebirth #2.

http://thelowerfrequencies.files.wor...s-superman.jpg

Also Flash can generate virtually infinite mass by running around the world and building up momentum, the infinite mass punch has only been used a couple of times but once Barry Allen punched Professor Zoom from the present back to the 25th Century using it in combination with opening a portal to the speed force to allow time travel.

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/a...1593/flash.gif