TV Licensing: Truth via FOI request - "Detector van evidence" NEVER used in court!

bobmeades · 23-05-2011, 17:43

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...etection_equip

Just used occasionally to obtain "Rarer than hen's teeth" search warrents!

Nilrem · 23-05-2011, 18:22

And that's news?

I thought it had been known about for years, and had been posted by the anti TVL people before

bobmeades · 23-05-2011, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilrem

And that's news?

I thought it had been known about for years, and had been posted by the anti TVL people before

Some people still live in fear of the "Green dildo-like" detectors.......

.......

TVL have been forced finally to officially admit they misled the public in the past by showing adverts of detectors creeping up & down the streets at night - coming from such an officious trademark, that MIGHT just be news?

Pizzatheaction · 23-05-2011, 19:35

Seeing as detector vans don't have eyes, it's pretty obvious they'd have to follow up said detection with a door-knock.

Coming up, in other news, we reveal what bears do in the woods...

slow motion · 23-05-2011, 23:36

Having read the whole correspondence and then the final statement, it seems like getting blood out of a stone!

And that was just for a "yes" or "no" answer!

Somehow i feel I'm left wondering if detector van evidence has ever been presented when obtaining search warrants or if that has been done solely on other factors.

Perhaps this is not the end of Mr Jones FOI quest. Congrats to him on his persistence against such a large multi-billion pound corporation.

mRebel · 23-05-2011, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmeades

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...etection_equip

Just used occasionally to obtain "Rarer than hen's teeth" search warrents!

And the answer to the question 'Can the FOI be used to detect information from the BBC?' is, 'Yes, if your prepared to overcome the BBC resistance!'

iain · 24-05-2011, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow motion

Having read the whole correspondence and then the final statement, it seems like getting blood out of a stone!

And that was just for a "yes" or "no" answer!

Somehow i feel I'm left wondering if detector van evidence has ever been presented when obtaining search warrants or if that has been done solely on other factors.

Perhaps this is not the end of Mr Jones FOI quest. Congrats to him on his persistence against such a large multi-billion pound corporation.

yes - three cheers for Mr Jones and his unearthing of this information!

Iain

slow motion · 24-05-2011, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

yes - three cheers for Mr Jones and his unearthing of this information!

Iain

I wouldn't go that far, but a victory for peristance.

it was quite a lot of effort just to get confirmed what most of us already suspected , ie that "Detector van evidence" has never been used in court .

I trust you've read the to and fro correspondence, most people would have just given up when faced with stone-walling over such a simple yes or no question.

iain · 24-05-2011, 11:38

sure - but what have we learned from this revelation?

Iain

Bedsit Bob · 24-05-2011, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction

it's pretty obvious they'd have to follow up said detection with a door-knock.

Followed by a swift door re-closing.

In my case, window re-closing.

Tassium · 24-05-2011, 13:38

Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant.

The obvious next question is "Has a search warrant ever been provided based on detection van evidence?"

I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam? The BBC needs to be transparent and honest at all times, failure to do this just makes it easier for a hostile government to take an axe to it.

slow motion · 24-05-2011, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant.

Where did it state that as a fact, to me it read like it could be used to apply for a search warrant, but I never saw it confirmed that this does actually happen.

liedown · 24-05-2011, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

sure - but what have we learned from this revelation?

Iain

Your names iain.

JasonWatkins · 24-05-2011, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

sure - but what have we learned from this revelation?

Iain

That you shouldn't always believe what you read and that sometimes mis-information can come back and bite you in the behind.

slow motion · 24-05-2011, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

sure - but what have we learned from this revelation?

Iain

that the truth will come out one way or another.

bobmeades · 24-05-2011, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow motion

that the truth will come out one way or another.

True, the next FOI truth to emerge eventually, will be exactly how many times, in a 12 month period, TVL Capita (with Police keeping the peace of course) successfully use a search warrent to gain access to individual homes all over the UK.

bobmeades · 24-05-2011, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant.

The obvious next question is "Has a search warrant ever been provided based on detection van evidence?"

I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam? The BBC needs to be transparent and honest at all times, failure to do this just makes it easier for a hostile government to take an axe to it.

Yes, the BBC's only hope of survival, is to be 100% truthful - is has been far from truthful regarding the TV Licence up till now.
I have it on VERY good authority, that this Con/Lib Government LOATHS the BBC - they are just so busy sorting out the mess Nu-lab left, that they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie -

mikw · 24-05-2011, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmeades

they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie -

Which you'd love, even though it will mean many less programmes, and less diversity as a result.

Not to mention, for any decent level of TV, you'll have to pay may hundreds of pounds a year for it.

Bedsit Bob · 24-05-2011, 17:49

Personallty, I'd be delighted if DVs did work.

They could determine I'm not watching TV, then leave me the f**k alone.

iain · 24-05-2011, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam?

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow motion

that the truth will come out one way or another.

this does sound very sinister, i must admit.

do you guys know any more about this scam, or what further truths may yet be revealed?

Iain

Pizzatheaction · 24-05-2011, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmeades

Yes, the BBC's only hope of survival, is to be 100% truthful - is has been far from truthful regarding the TV Licence up till now.
I have it on VERY good authority, that this Con/Lib Government LOATHS the BBC - they are just so busy sorting out the mess Nu-lab left, that they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie -

Like sorting out borrowing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13519792

Lol.

The two Government factions seem to be too busy warring with each other.

bobmeades · 24-05-2011, 19:41

One thing you learn from reading these BBC/TVL FOE answers - all of them! is these redacting officials, cannot make up their minds how to spell TV License or TV Licence (S or C) is it BBC spelling or Capita spelling?

Freedom of information

They do not even understand what the expression means.

JasonWatkins · 24-05-2011, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by iain

this does sound very sinister, i must admit.

Well I for one would be interested to hear you defend the tactic of misinformation ?

You have a long, storied history of going to bat against any and all anti-TVL opinions, even being accused of being a paid TVL or Capita employee, so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the issue of detector vans.

Should TVL, for example, be forced to re-draft the following section of the FAQ?

Quote:

There are a number of ways we can find out. At the heart of our operation is the TV Licensing database of almost 30 million home and business addresses, telling us which of these have TV Licences. All of our enforcement officers have access to this database and will check whether or not you have a licence. If you are using a TV and are unlicensed, you could face prosecution and a hefty fine.

We also have a fleet of detector vans, plus, our enforcement officers have access to hand-held detection devices capable of detecting a TV within 20 seconds.

In fact, we catch an average of over 1,000 people watching TV without a licence every day.

The last two sentences are clearly structured to give the impression that detection technology is used to catch over 1,000 people when this is clearly not the case.

Do you think a company should be allowed to use mis-information to collect payments from the general public or do you think they should be completely open and honest about their operating procedures and people's rights?

Bandspread199 · 24-05-2011, 20:50

If you HAVE a licence, then it doesn't affect you. Simplez!!

If you haven't, then they can knock your walls down with my blessing!

Bedsit Bob · 24-05-2011, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandspread199

If you haven't, then they can knock your walls down with my blessing!

Why would you support them knocking down the walls, of innocent people

23-05-2011, 17:43	#1
bobmeades Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sherwood forest Posts: 1,459	TV Licensing: Truth via FOI request - "Detector van evidence" NEVER used in court! http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...etection_equip Just used occasionally to obtain "Rarer than hen's teeth" search warrents!

23-05-2011, 19:29	#3
bobmeades Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sherwood forest Posts: 1,459	Quote: Originally Posted by Nilrem And that's news? I thought it had been known about for years, and had been posted by the anti TVL people before Some people still live in fear of the "Green dildo-like" detectors.............. TVL have been forced finally to officially admit they misled the public in the past by showing adverts of detectors creeping up & down the streets at night - coming from such an officious trademark, that MIGHT just be news?

23-05-2011, 18:22	#2
Nilrem Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,634	And that's news? I thought it had been known about for years, and had been posted by the anti TVL people before

23-05-2011, 19:35	#4
Pizzatheaction Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,548	Seeing as detector vans don't have eyes, it's pretty obvious they'd have to follow up said detection with a door-knock. Coming up, in other news, we reveal what bears do in the woods...

23-05-2011, 23:36	#5
slow motion Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,034	Having read the whole correspondence and then the final statement, it seems like getting blood out of a stone! And that was just for a "yes" or "no" answer! Somehow i feel I'm left wondering if detector van evidence has ever been presented when obtaining search warrants or if that has been done solely on other factors. Perhaps this is not the end of Mr Jones FOI quest. Congrats to him on his persistence against such a large multi-billion pound corporation.

23-05-2011, 23:50	#6
mRebel Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,181	Quote: Originally Posted by bobmeades http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...etection_equip Just used occasionally to obtain "Rarer than hen's teeth" search warrents! And the answer to the question 'Can the FOI be used to detect information from the BBC?' is, 'Yes, if your prepared to overcome the BBC resistance!'

24-05-2011, 11:26	#7
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	Quote: Originally Posted by slow motion Having read the whole correspondence and then the final statement, it seems like getting blood out of a stone! And that was just for a "yes" or "no" answer! Somehow i feel I'm left wondering if detector van evidence has ever been presented when obtaining search warrants or if that has been done solely on other factors. Perhaps this is not the end of Mr Jones FOI quest. Congrats to him on his persistence against such a large multi-billion pound corporation. yes - three cheers for Mr Jones and his unearthing of this information! Iain

24-05-2011, 11:34	#8
slow motion Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,034	Quote: Originally Posted by iain yes - three cheers for Mr Jones and his unearthing of this information! Iain I wouldn't go that far, but a victory for peristance. it was quite a lot of effort just to get confirmed what most of us already suspected , ie that "Detector van evidence" has never been used in court . I trust you've read the to and fro correspondence, most people would have just given up when faced with stone-walling over such a simple yes or no question.

24-05-2011, 11:38	#9
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	sure - but what have we learned from this revelation? Iain

24-05-2011, 13:25	#10
Bedsit Bob Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North West Posts: 23,325	Quote: Originally Posted by Pizzatheaction it's pretty obvious they'd have to follow up said detection with a door-knock. Followed by a swift door re-closing. In my case, window re-closing.

24-05-2011, 13:38	#11
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Posts: 24,412	Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant. The obvious next question is "Has a search warrant ever been provided based on detection van evidence?" I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam? The BBC needs to be transparent and honest at all times, failure to do this just makes it easier for a hostile government to take an axe to it.

24-05-2011, 14:08	#12
slow motion Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,034	Quote: Originally Posted by Tassium Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant. Where did it state that as a fact, to me it read like it could be used to apply for a search warrant, but I never saw it confirmed that this does actually happen.

24-05-2011, 14:11	#13
liedown Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,772	Quote: Originally Posted by iain sure - but what have we learned from this revelation? Iain Your names iain.

24-05-2011, 14:38	#14
JasonWatkins Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 53,670	Quote: Originally Posted by iain sure - but what have we learned from this revelation? Iain That you shouldn't always believe what you read and that sometimes mis-information can come back and bite you in the behind.

24-05-2011, 14:56	#15
slow motion Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,034	Quote: Originally Posted by iain sure - but what have we learned from this revelation? Iain that the truth will come out one way or another.

24-05-2011, 16:58	#16
bobmeades Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sherwood forest Posts: 1,459	Quote: Originally Posted by slow motion that the truth will come out one way or another. True, the next FOI truth to emerge eventually, will be exactly how many times, in a 12 month period, TVL Capita (with Police keeping the peace of course) successfully use a search warrent to gain access to individual homes all over the UK.

24-05-2011, 17:02	#17
bobmeades Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sherwood forest Posts: 1,459	Quote: Originally Posted by Tassium Basically the BBC response is that detection van evidence is not used in court, but is used to apply for a search warrant. The obvious next question is "Has a search warrant ever been provided based on detection van evidence?" I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam? The BBC needs to be transparent and honest at all times, failure to do this just makes it easier for a hostile government to take an axe to it. Yes, the BBC's only hope of survival, is to be 100% truthful - is has been far from truthful regarding the TV Licence up till now. I have it on VERY good authority, that this Con/Lib Government LOATHS the BBC - they are just so busy sorting out the mess Nu-lab left, that they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie -

24-05-2011, 17:35	#18
mikw Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 34,391	Quote: Originally Posted by bobmeades they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie - Which you'd love, even though it will mean many less programmes, and less diversity as a result. Not to mention, for any decent level of TV, you'll have to pay may hundreds of pounds a year for it.

24-05-2011, 17:49	#19
Bedsit Bob Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North West Posts: 23,325	Personallty, I'd be delighted if DVs did work. They could determine I'm not watching TV, then leave me the f**k alone.

24-05-2011, 18:00	#20
iain Guest Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 62,990	Quote: Originally Posted by Tassium I'm amazed that some people would think this unimportant, don't they understand the drip drip drip effect on the public of a BBC that is on the scam? Quote: Originally Posted by slow motion that the truth will come out one way or another. this does sound very sinister, i must admit. do you guys know any more about this scam, or what further truths may yet be revealed? Iain

24-05-2011, 19:14	#21
Pizzatheaction Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 17,548	Quote: Originally Posted by bobmeades Yes, the BBC's only hope of survival, is to be 100% truthful - is has been far from truthful regarding the TV Licence up till now. I have it on VERY good authority, that this Con/Lib Government LOATHS the BBC - they are just so busy sorting out the mess Nu-lab left, that they have not got around to the Castration of Auntie - Like sorting out borrowing? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13519792 Lol. The two Government factions seem to be too busy warring with each other.

24-05-2011, 19:41	#22
bobmeades Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sherwood forest Posts: 1,459	One thing you learn from reading these BBC/TVL FOE answers - all of them! is these redacting officials, cannot make up their minds how to spell TV License or TV Licence (S or C) is it BBC spelling or Capita spelling? Freedom of information They do not even understand what the expression means.

DS Forums

TV Licensing: Truth via FOI request - "Detector van evidence" NEVER used in court!

24-05-2011, 20:44	#23
JasonWatkins Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 53,670	Quote: Originally Posted by iain this does sound very sinister, i must admit. Well I for one would be interested to hear you defend the tactic of misinformation ? You have a long, storied history of going to bat against any and all anti-TVL opinions, even being accused of being a paid TVL or Capita employee, so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the issue of detector vans. Should TVL, for example, be forced to re-draft the following section of the FAQ? Quote: There are a number of ways we can find out. At the heart of our operation is the TV Licensing database of almost 30 million home and business addresses, telling us which of these have TV Licences. All of our enforcement officers have access to this database and will check whether or not you have a licence. If you are using a TV and are unlicensed, you could face prosecution and a hefty fine. We also have a fleet of detector vans, plus, our enforcement officers have access to hand-held detection devices capable of detecting a TV within 20 seconds. In fact, we catch an average of over 1,000 people watching TV without a licence every day. The last two sentences are clearly structured to give the impression that detection technology is used to catch over 1,000 people when this is clearly not the case. Do you think a company should be allowed to use mis-information to collect payments from the general public or do you think they should be completely open and honest about their operating procedures and people's rights?

24-05-2011, 20:50	#24
Bandspread199 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Scotland east Posts: 2,845	If you HAVE a licence, then it doesn't affect you. Simplez!! If you haven't, then they can knock your walls down with my blessing!

24-05-2011, 20:54	#25
Bedsit Bob Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North West Posts: 23,325	Quote: Originally Posted by Bandspread199 If you haven't, then they can knock your walls down with my blessing! Why would you support them knocking down the walls, of innocent people