[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by max99

The thread is already starting to look ridiculous with so many spoiler tags.

As per the title, it should be a thread for people who've read all the books and is obviously going to contain spoilers.

Agree... I mean, the OP says right from the start its for people who've read the books (plural) and states spoilers in the title. That means spoilers are okay. That's Digital Spy policy too according to the sticky, right? I really do not see the point of having a different thread with a load of spoiler tags all over it, personally...

If we have to watch what we say there and watch what we say here, where can we talk about it freely?

Originally Posted by Matt D

Spoiler

Jon and Bran are both wargs. Their direwolves are very important, and need to be shown. Robb doesn't seem to have the same sort of link with Grey Wind as Bran & Jon have with Summer and Ghost, but his direwolf is still important IMO.

Oh yeah, forgot about Bran and Summer's link. I think maybe Arya could have the latent ability too. Doesn't she have dreams of Nymeria running around with a great pack of regular wolves? Or was that just rumours? Been a long time... I've forgotten.

[Esot-eric]

Originally Posted by Snozzcumber

Oh yeah, forgot about Bran and Summer's link. I think maybe Arya could have the latent ability too. Doesn't she have dreams of Nymeria running around with a great pack of regular wolves? Or was that just rumours? Been a long time... I've forgotten.

Spoiler

Arya has definitely had several wolf dreams. In fact i'd say she's more warg than Jon.

So far Jon has only shared dreams with Ghost, while Bran seems to be able to warg into Summer and Hodor. Arya has wolf dreamed into Nymeria even while she's across the narrow sea and, i believe, she's also dreamed herself into a cat's body too (but i'm unsure if that's been mentioned in the books so far released or if i read it in one of those chapters from ADWD released on GRRM's website over the past 6 years).

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by Esot-eric

Spoiler

Arya has definitely had several wolf dreams. In fact i'd say she's more warg than Jon.

So far Jon has only shared dreams with Ghost, while Bran seems to be able to warg into Summer and Hodor. Arya has wolf dreamed into Nymeria even while she's across the narrow sea and, i believe, she's also dreamed herself into a cat's body too (but i'm unsure if that's been mentioned in the books so far released or if i read it in one of those chapters from ADWD released on GRRM's website over the past 6 years).

Cool. I really need to get around to finishing them all before the ADWD release date.

[Matt D]

This is a very interesting article speculating on Jon's heritage (& contains spoilers for at least as far as book 3 A Storm of Swords!): http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays...s_parents.html

Reading that, I'm pretty much convinced by the theory mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Matt D]

Originally Posted by max99

But the title is obvious. The first post makes it even more obvious.

There's only so much you can do to protect the people who click on things without thinking. Creating a thread specifically for people who've read the books, should be enough.

Originally Posted by Snozzcumber

Agree... I mean, the OP says right from the start its for people who've read the books (plural) and states spoilers in the title. That means spoilers are okay. That's Digital Spy policy too according to the sticky, right? I really do not see the point of having a different thread with a load of spoiler tags all over it, personally...

If we have to watch what we say there and watch what we say here, where can we talk about it freely?

I know it seems obvious from the title that the thread is for all the books, but people have been using tags all through the thread, so although all books have been discussed, the tags have meant it's been safe for people who haven't yet read them all.

I just think that if we're going to have un-tagged discussion of all the books, it needs to be a bit clearer so people don't stumble in here and see things from a book they've not got up to yet.

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by Matt D

I know it seems obvious from the title that the thread is for all the books, but people have been using tags all through the thread, so although all books have been discussed, the tags have meant it's been safe for people who haven't yet read them all.

I just think that if we're going to have un-tagged discussion of all the books, it needs to be a bit clearer so people don't stumble in here and see things from a book they've not got up to yet.

"SPOILERS - for those who have read the books" in the thread title.

Before participating in a thread discussing a particular show, check two pieces of information: the PACE of the thread (usually the channel on which it is being shown) and whether it is NON-SPOILER or SPOILERS PERMITTED.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362703

If someone reads a thread titled SPOILERS and they come across spoilers, they can have no complaint.

Up to everyone else what they do, but personally I won't be tagging for that reason. I think if we were gonna have spoiler tagged discussion in case it might ruin the plot for people, we could have done that in the other thread.

[badcompany3004]

If you are not discussing Season 1 of Game of Throne (which many don't seem to be) then really this is just a discussion of the books and the thread should be moved into the Book section and merged with the thread that already exists in the section.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by badcompany3004

If you are not discussing Season 1 of Game of Throne (which many don't seem to be) then really this is just a discussion of the books and the thread should be moved into the Book section and merged with the thread that already exists in the section.

Well whilst there is discussion of the books here, I think the point of this thread was also to compare the book(s) with the TV show - characterisation and portrayal of events, etc.? As such, would it be more relevant to this forum or the Book section?

[Shute]

Originally Posted by Wendy Kroy

I'm looking forward to the reaction in the no-spoiler thread when

Spoiler

Ned loses his head.

Spoiler

I think that's when we'll need to set up a forum counselling service.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Snozzcumber

"SPOILERS - for those who have read the books" in the thread title.



http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=362703

If someone reads a thread titled SPOILERS and they come across spoilers, they can have no complaint.

Up to everyone else what they do, but personally I won't be tagging for that reason. I think if we were gonna have spoiler tagged discussion in case it might ruin the plot for people, we could have done that in the other thread.

I tend to agree with you. I read all the books last summer and have read a lot of other stuff since. Unfortunately, I can't always remember which minor piece of information was divulged in which of the later books.

Whilst I'm full of admiration for Matt D's mental dexterity in putting his posts in spoiler tags organised according to which book people need to have read up to in order to determine whether or not the information's a spoiler for them, I'm afraid I'm not capable of doing the same having not read the books recently. As such, I'm likely to be inhibited in discussing certain theories in case I inadvertently spoil it for someone who hasn't read all the books - which seems a bit ridiculous on a thread provided for book readers marked *spoilers*.

[Snozzcumber]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I tend to agree with you. I read all the books last summer and have read a lot of other stuff since. Unfortunately, I can't always remember which minor piece of information was divulged in which of the later books.

Whilst I'm full of admiration for Matt D's mental dexterity in putting his posts in spoiler tags organised according to which book people need to have read up to in order to determine whether or not the information's a spoiler for them, I'm afraid I'm not capable of doing the same having not read the books recently. As such, I'm likely to be inhibited in discussing certain theories in case I inadvertently spoil it for someone who hasn't read all the books - which seems a bit ridiculous on a thread provided for book readers marked *spoilers*.

Aye, good point. I'm in the same boat - only worse. I haven't read the main series in roughly 4 years. I wouldn't have a clue how to tag a lot of spoilers, if we were doing it by book.

I can definitely see why you're saying it, Matt - don't want us to unintentionally annoy people like we were in the other thread - but I'd find it impossible to reliably tag anyway, for the reason Cadence said.

[Cadence]

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed with the casting and portrayal of Renly.

He first appears in Book 1 (which I'm currently re-reading) in a Sansa chapter, described as "a man near twenty whose armour was steel plate of a deep forest-green. He was the handsomest man Sansa had ever set eyes upon, tall and powerfully made with jet black hair that fell to his shoulders and framed a clean shaven face, and laughing green eyes to match his armour. Cradled under one arm was an antlered helm, its magnificent rack shimmering in gold"

Later, in an Eddard chapter, it's said that Renly (who had been a boy of eight when Robert won the throne) had "grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting. Whenever he saw him, it was as if the years had slipped away and Robert stood before him, fresh from his victory on the Trident"

During the tournament of the Hand, Renly enters the lists rather than merely being a spectator. When he's unhorsed by the Hound and then climbs to his feet, the commons cheer wildly, "for King Robert's handsome young brother was a great favourite."

So I find it puzzling why he's being portrayed in the TV show as some sort of weakling who hates killing and hunting and complains to Ser Loras in their intimate moment "All I ever hear from Robert and Stannis is how I'm not tough enough, how I squirm at the sight of blood"

Why the change of character? The only thing they seem to have retained about his character from the book is that he's popular with the commons, but instead of being popular because of strength and personal charisma, as seems to be suggested in the book, Ser Loras seems to say that Renly's popular because he emphathises with the common people. Renly seems to have been made somewhat touchy-feely!

Maybe they didn't have the budget for another customised and exquisite suit of armour, after spending out on that for the Knight of Flowers!

[Matt D]

Spoilers - Fair enough! Untagged free-for-all it is As for my "mental dexterity", lol, the only reason I'm able to label according to which book is that I'm reading them right now for the first time, so they're fresh to me.

Renly - Agreed! Not at all what I expected when he appeared in the TV series.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Spoilers - Fair enough! Untagged free-for-all it is As for my "mental dexterity", lol, the only reason I'm able to label according to which book is that I'm reading them right now for the first time, so they're fresh to me.

Aha!

Originally Posted by Matt D

Renly - Agreed! Not at all what I expected when he appeared in the TV series.

I just wonder where they're going with the character as portrayed in the TV show.

As someone who didn't pick up when reading the books that Renly and Loras were gay and in a relationship with each other (doh!):

Spoiler

It now makes sense to me why Margaery claimed prior to wedding Joffrey that her marriage to Renly hadn't been consumated - even though Cersei found that difficult to believe.

Sorry, couldn't resist putting that in spoiler tags as it occurs outside book 1. Obviously I'm still sensitive!!

[max99]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Spoilers - Fair enough! Untagged free-for-all it is

The added problem with spoiler tags on a complex thread like this is that no matter how hard everyone tried, it's inevitable that someone would slip up and inadvertently reveal a major plot event. At least with the thread being tag-free, un-spoiled people will know that it's a thread best avoided. That said, there'll always be someone who will read every post and then complain about spoilers.

Actually, it would probably help to have the title changed to contain the more prominent wording 'ALL THE BOOKS'. I'll see if the mods can do it.

[Slick Mongoose]

Don't forget what the Donal Noye says in book 2: Renly is copper to Robert's steel. Pretty and shiny to look at, but not much use. He might look like a young Robert, but he's not the same. He enters the tourney, but he's not very good - The crowd cheer because they like him, not because they think he's going to win. Nobody does.

The dislike of blood thing is new, but I don't think it's as dramatic a change as is being made out.

[rwould]

Renly does not look right at all. He should be more bulky for how I picture Robert was. And his mannerisms are not quite right. He comes across personality wise more like Stannis than Robert at the moment. I don't think it is helped though that Robert is noticeably too old in the TV series.

Cersei is not quite right for me. Looks wise she is just not attractive enough, and personality wise I don't think she comes across as being how she is in the early books. They are being very generous to her, but also not portraying how calculating she is at this stage.

Theon is way off, coming across as far more negative than I perceived him. I think this may be as preparation for the later books.

Overall though they have done a fantastic job of casting. Arya (despite looking too old, but all the children do) and Tyrion are both displaying their personalities perfectly

[FallenLeaves]

Originally Posted by rwould

Overall though they have done a fantastic job of casting. Arya (despite looking too old, but all the children do) and Tyrion are both displaying their personalities perfectly

GRRM has said that he regretted making the children so young at the beginning, so I don't think its too bad.

[badcompany3004]

Originally Posted by FallenLeaves

GRRM has said that he regretted making the children so young at the beginning, so I don't think its too bad.

This might explain why he writes his children more grown up. I have a hard time imagining them at the age they are meant to be, apart from Sansa, but I also thought this was down the fact they they seem to have to grow up so fast in this world.

I have only read one and a quarter of the books so far so I can't judge the characters on anything I haven't read yet

[Slick Mongoose]

Originally Posted by rwould

I don't think it is helped though that Robert is noticeably too old in the TV series.

Arya (despite looking too old, but all the children do)

Everyone has been aged up from the books. Dany, The Stark kids, Ned, Cat, Lysa, Robert, Sam..... It's deliberate.

[laparure]

Originally Posted by rwould

Renly does not look right at all. He should be more bulky for how I picture Robert was. And his mannerisms are not quite right. He comes across personality wise more like Stannis than Robert at the moment. I don't think it is helped though that Robert is noticeably too old in the TV series.

Cersei is not quite right for me. Looks wise she is just not attractive enough, and personality wise I don't think she comes across as being how she is in the early books. They are being very generous to her, but also not portraying how calculating she is at this stage.

Theon is way off, coming across as far more negative than I perceived him. I think this may be as preparation for the later books.

Overall though they have done a fantastic job of casting. Arya (despite looking too old, but all the children do) and Tyrion are both displaying their personalities perfectly

I agree with everyone you picked out there. But as the series progresses, it's actually not bothering me much - I sort of see them as different characters from the book characters, I suppose, not how I would have cast them/portrayed them, but interesting in their own right. Theon is still a bit of a problem for me.

Arya is just fantastic

[rwould]

Originally Posted by Slick Mongoose

Everyone has been aged up from the books. Dany, The Stark kids, Ned, Cat, Lysa, Robert, Sam..... It's deliberate.

Sansa is the same age isn't she? And Joffrey if anything looks younger than his age. Jaime and Cersei are also the same age, which is what starts to create the discrepancy as it makes the difference between his age and that of Ned/Robert more pronounced.

I can understand why they have aged the children (in particular Daenarys) but I think with some of them it is a risk of a marked effect on the plot and believability (Arya may not be boylike enough for example).

[rwould]

I'd always pictured the 'dancing teacher' (who's name I can't remember) as older too.

For those who've read all the books a question. Do you all find yourself looking forwards/anticipating scenes for in a couple of series time? After this start they'd better not stop at series two!

[Slick Mongoose]

Originally Posted by rwould

Sansa is the same age isn't she? And Joffrey if anything looks younger than his age. Jaime and Cersei are also the same age, which is what starts to create the discrepancy as it makes the difference between his age and that of Ned/Robert more pronounced.

Sansa is 11 in the books, 13 in the show. Joffrey is 13 in the books, and I think the only kid who hasn't been aged up (and I think the actor is about right age-wise?).

For those who've read all the books a question. Do you all find yourself looking forwards/anticipating scenes for in a couple of series time? After this start they'd better not stop at series two!

I'm particularly looking forward to (MASSIVE BOOK 3 SPOILERS):

Spoiler

Joffrey dying!

[Tourista]

Originally Posted by Slick Mongoose

I'm particularly looking forward to (MASSIVE BOOK 3 SPOILERS):

Spoiler

Joffrey dying!

Lol..

So am I!.

I am really hoping that GRRM gets his artistic finger out, and finish the series, as when Sky did the recent interview with him, he didnt look very well, and I would hate to see this series unfinished......(sorry, but being selfish there)