[alterego]

Our old Thomson 4000 PVR is due for replacement. It’s been a bit temperamental for some time, and today would not even allow me to record one channel and view another (both pictures blank). To be fair to it, we live in a marginal area (behind a hill on the Isle of Wight) and since we are just to the South of Rowridge, which sends most of its signal North to avoid annoying the French (not sure why, but that’s another matter), I’m not sure if things will improve after switch-over. This leads me to ask:

1) Is it worth sticking with Freeview, e.g. are newer receivers better, or will everything come good in 2012?

2) Are there any bargains to be had or models to avoid? I’m not bothered by HD, but the more reviews I read, the more Humax seems to be recommended. The budget is tight, however, and I’m not worried about badges.

3) If I switch to Freesat, what should I look for or avoid?

Thanks for any advice or experiences...

[mllfap]

If you already have a Sky dish buy a Freesat box.
More channels and more reliable if your Freeview reception is iffy.

[zx50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mllfap

If you already have a Sky dish buy a Freesat box.
More channels and more reliable if your Freeview reception is iffy.

Yep, and plus, there's almost no chance of the dish being blown from the building's structure in high winds. I've got Freeview+ and I'm sometimes a bit concerned that the aerial on the roof might get knocked down in high winds, which happens sometimes here. When I hooked my stepdad's Freesat box up to the TV and performed a first time installation, the speed at which the channels started coming in was great. I think the reception from Freesat will ALWAYS be so much more reliable and rock steady than Freeview.

Edit: The Humax boxes seem to be very well liked by reviewers/critics on the Internet.

[David (2)]

I would not recommend a Freeview box made by Humax, the tuner is quite weak, its quite difficult to use, and things can go wrong from time to time. My experience of this is from the Humax Freeview pvr, 9150............I had the Thomson dhd4000 some years ago - things have moved on quite a bit since then. First, i dont think it would work after DSO happens, and I am not sure from memory, buts isnt the 4TV EPG discontinued as well. My one was very noisy, crashed quite a bit, it it would download a static epg at 3am in the morning at which point it sounded like a lawnmower.
.......on the Freeview route, I replaced it with a tv with in built Freeview, and a Panasonic combi Freeview/Harddisc/DVD recorder. The Combi was only single tuner, but this was not really a problem as the tv also had its own freeview chip inside, so I could still recored and view different freeview channels at the same time. The Panasonic combi was light years ahead of the Thomson, in terms of noise, easy of use, stability, picture quality (also includes SD upscaling on hdmi). It also has/had an excellent tuner. The tv is a Sony which also has a very sensitive tuner.

.........If you want to consider Freesat, I would recommend the Humax Freesat+HD pvr. Twin tuner, hard disc, with HD support as well as BBC iPlayer via the Network [ethernet] jack. I prev has the more basic box from Humax without hard drive and this was very stable indeed, with only about 2 crashes in 2 years. You may think it odd that I speak highly of Humax Freesat kit but not Humax Freeview kit, all I can say is they must come from different production lines and different design teams as they are miles apart in how they work, and how well they work.

[njp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

I had the Thomson dhd4000 some years ago - things have moved on quite a bit since then. First, i dont think it would work after DSO happens, and I am not sure from memory, buts isnt the 4TV EPG discontinued as well. My one was very noisy, crashed quite a bit, it it would download a static epg at 3am in the morning at which point it sounded like a lawnmower.

If it weren't for the demise of the 4TV EPG, I would still be using my DHD4000. The software itself was extremely stable - any problems that developed were down to PSU problems, which could be fixed by replacing some capacitors.

I replaced it with a Fetch 8320HD, which has some nice features, but less than adequate software, no bookmarking facility, a front panel display consisting of a single white LED, which signals to you in a cryptic fashion so that you never quite know what it's doing. It also has almost unusable trick-play functions - something that the DHD4000 got exactly right. Latterly, I've had problems with corrupted recordings, which I think are down to inadequate handling of bitstream errors, or perhaps inadequate internal screening.

I then tried a Digital Stream DHR8205U. I'm pretty impressed with this. Series link actually seems to work. Accurate recording times actually seem to work. Whatever was messing up some recordings on the Fetch does not affect it (I know, because I ran them in parallel for a while, with the Digitalstream fed from the Fetch aerial output). Trick play functions are usable (but still not as well thought out as on the Thomson). It has bookmarks. The proper front panel display and radio/TV mode switch means I can use it as a tuner without having to switch my TV on to select a radio station. The only thing I miss is the feature of the Fetch box which allowed you to access recordings via a web browser, and play them on a PC.

[alterego]

Thanks all for the quick responses.

I don't have a satellite dish (yet) so would stick with Freeview if it's likely to improve, but reception here can be pretty sticky - we still use analogue occasionally. There is a new mast going up at Rowridge which I believe will replace the old one at switch-over, but whether it will make a difference in this direction remains to be seen!

The loss of the EPG is pretty annoying, but I could live with it if the PVR worked OK. Interested to hear about the PSU - could you elaborate, njp?

[captainkremmen]

I think it basically comes down to what channels you think you would watch/record most often.

Freeview has the smallest set of channels, but it does have some that Freesat does not carry, including Dave, Five*, Five USA, Yesterday and Quest.

Freesat has a much wider range of channels though, including more music channels, more children's channels and a couple of extra film channels.

For Freeview HD you have a choice of recorders considered the most reliable and stable, the best of which seem to be the Digitalstream DHR 8203/8205, the Humax HDR Fox T2 and now the Tvonics DTR HD500 with the most recent software updates. The new Sony is also worth considering (it is based on the same hardware as the Humax and Digitalstreams), but it does not have any scart sockets, which may or may not be an issue depending on your setup and requirements. The Digitalstreams are the cheapest at between £170-£185 depending on whether you go for the 320Gb or 500Gb versions, and where you buy them from. The TVonics goes for around £230, the Sony around £250-£270 with the Humax being the most expensive at around £270-£300. However, the others are basically just PVRs, with few bells and whistles, while the Humax justifies it's price tag with excellent media streaming features. Whether or not it is worth paying the extra depends on your budget and whether or not the extra features are worth it to you.

The best of the Freesat recorders is easily the Humax Foxsat HDR. At present nothing else comes close and at around £200-£230 it isn't badly priced either. You will however need a satellite dish with two LNB feeds to make full use of it's twin tuner capabilities.

[newbee]

You can get the Humax Foxsat HDR (500GB) from John Lewis for £249 with a 2 year warranty.

[alterego]

Thank you captain kremmen - how is Carla these days?

You're persuading me towards Freesat - I'm sure we could live without Dave and Five*.

Thanks, Newbee - looks like I might have to start saving...

[call100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

I would not recommend a Freeview box made by Humax, the tuner is quite weak, its quite difficult to use, and things can go wrong from time to time. My experience of this is from the Humax Freeview pvr, 9150............I had the Thomson dhd4000 some years ago - things have moved on quite a bit since then. First, i dont think it would work after DSO happens, and I am not sure from memory, buts isnt the 4TV EPG discontinued as well. My one was very noisy, crashed quite a bit, it it would download a static epg at 3am in the morning at which point it sounded like a lawnmower.
.......on the Freeview route, I replaced it with a tv with in built Freeview, and a Panasonic combi Freeview/Harddisc/DVD recorder. The Combi was only single tuner, but this was not really a problem as the tv also had its own freeview chip inside, so I could still recored and view different freeview channels at the same time. The Panasonic combi was light years ahead of the Thomson, in terms of noise, easy of use, stability, picture quality (also includes SD upscaling on hdmi). It also has/had an excellent tuner. The tv is a Sony which also has a very sensitive tuner.

.........If you want to consider Freesat, I would recommend the Humax Freesat+HD pvr. Twin tuner, hard disc, with HD support as well as BBC iPlayer via the Network [ethernet] jack. I prev has the more basic box from Humax without hard drive and this was very stable indeed, with only about 2 crashes in 2 years. You may think it odd that I speak highly of Humax Freesat kit but not Humax Freeview kit, all I can say is they must come from different production lines and different design teams as they are miles apart in how they work, and how well they work.

It's pointless comparing the latest Humax freeview box with the old one you had. This is their latest product
HDR FoxT2 a twin tuner freeview PVR which is a newer model than the one you tried. I find it rock solid and with the iPlayer etc built in I have no problems as it's easy to use and a joy to have.
Whether to have Freeview or Freesat would be a personal choice. I've tried both at different locations and prefer freeview on the Humax.

[zx50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainkremmen

Freeview has the smallest set of channels, but it does have some that Freesat does not carry, including Dave, Five*, Five USA, Yesterday and Quest.

This is what disappoints me a bit about Freesat, the fact that it's not got all of Freeview's channels. I might just run them side by side when I eventually get Freesat+ in.

Edit: It also doesn't have PICK TV either.

[alterego]

Thanks ZX. It doesn't bother me unduly, but it seems strange that they should differ.

I had a look on 'digitaluk' to see what they had to say about switch-over, and they claim that our reception is already 'good' for 31 channels. This is hardly the case, and not long ago they recognised this as a marginal area. I'm not aware of any recent changes (apart from tuning) and I have neighbours with a new digital TV who cannot receive it at all!

There are some oddities after switchover too:

1) The number of channels available drops from 69 to 55 on the 21st March 2012, and then returns to 69 a month later.

2) 35 channels become 'variable' in 2013, having been 'good' for the previous year.

Anyone know why?

[captainkremmen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by call100

It's pointless comparing the latest Humax freeview box with the old one you had. This is their latest product
HDR FoxT2 a twin tuner freeview PVR which is a newer model than the one you tried. I find it rock solid and with the iPlayer etc built in I have no problems as it's easy to use and a joy to have.
Whether to have Freeview or Freesat would be a personal choice. I've tried both at different locations and prefer freeview on the Humax.

Indeed.
My uncle bought the Humax and it hasn't missed a beat. They also seemed to have upped their support too, users over at AVForums say Humax's support for the Fox T2 is very good, with fixes to any minor problems they encounter, although it did take Humax months longer than they originally planned to get the online portal up and running.

[captainkremmen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx50

This is what disappoints me a bit about Freesat, the fact that it's not got all of Freeview's channels. I might just run them side by side when I eventually get Freesat+ in.

Edit: It also doesn't have PICK TV either.

Yeah, it seems some of that is down to the satellite carriage agreements with Sky. Most of the Freesat channels are, of course, also carried by Sky and some were originally pay channels. Their carriage agreements have to run out first before these channels can go free to air on Freesat. I expect it to happen once the Sky agreements run out and assuming there is space on Freesat.

[David (2)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alterego

Thanks ZX. It doesn't bother me unduly, but it seems strange that they should differ.

I had a look on 'digitaluk' to see what they had to say about switch-over, and they claim that our reception is already 'good' for 31 channels. This is hardly the case, and not long ago they recognised this as a marginal area. I'm not aware of any recent changes (apart from tuning) and I have neighbours with a new digital TV who cannot receive it at all!

There are some oddities after switchover too:

1) The number of channels available drops from 69 to 55 on the 21st March 2012, and then returns to 69 a month later.

2) 35 channels become 'variable' in 2013, having been 'good' for the previous year.

Anyone know why?

Yes (!), from memory you said before your on the South side of the IOW, which is poorly served by the main Rowridge mast as they dont want to leak the UK service to France. To compensate for this (again if my memory serves me right), the South side of the IOW has 2 or more small "relay" masts, which are still only on analogue (Rowridge has high power analogue and low power digital at the moment).
.....My guess is you live in signal range of 1 or more of these small relay towers, and the post code database thinks you should be on big Rowridge mast prior to Switchover (as there is no other digital signal), but post Switchover it thinks you should be using one of the Relays as they will then be digital, and your in range, so thats the one for you - so it thinks.


By the way, the relay masts only broadcast Freeview Lite, which is the "Core Service" inc PSB channels, HD PSB channels, and a few extras. Things like Dave, Yesterday, Sky News, Sky Sports options, loads of radio stations on tv are not an option with a relay signal.

This is why I think Freesat is the better option, and by the way, this is the tip of the ice berg - if indeed your aerial picks up multiple digital duplicate channels from more than 1 mast post Switchover, you will be opening a can of worms.

[RobAnt]

Why not have both? They've both got strength and weaknesses. Incidentally, Freesat only covers some channels, there are all the Freesat channels and a host of others on Free to Air satellite, and if you buy the right box you can upgrade to Sky later if you wish.

[alterego]

David - thank you. Your memory does indeed serve you right, as digitaluk have now confirmed. Ventnor has its own relay, being behind a large hill (and also on the way to France) and there is another nearer to here that I didn’t know about, which probably explains why we now rate as ‘good’, although of course it’s a different group, so I would need a new aerial

Digitaluk declined to comment about the ‘leakage to France’ but presumably there should still be some benefit when analogue is turned off and digital power increased?

I’ll cling on until then, I think, and if there’s not an easy way to get a decent Freeview signal, I’ll switch to Freesat (or have both, as RobAnt suggests). Having had my appetite whetted, I might buy a simple/cheap setup to try out before then. Are the bundled packages (e.g. on Ebay) with a Triax tuner OK?

[captainkremmen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

Why not have both? They've both got strength and weaknesses. Incidentally, Freesat only covers some channels, there are all the Freesat channels and a host of others on Free to Air satellite, and if you buy the right box you can upgrade to Sky later if you wish.

You can't record with modern Freesat from Sky boxes though (although you can hack one of the older Pace boxes), unless you pay them £10 a month. With Freesat (not from Sky), he has the option of a full PVR if he wishes and can afford one.

[alterego]

Is there such a thing as a freestanding hard disc recorder that will work like an old-fashioned VCR, i.e record whatever is fed into it at a programmed time? it would be nice to have one recording device for both Freesat and Freeview...

[John_Elway]

Freesat all the way for me.

[TelevisionUser]

Freeview or freesat?

...or indeed both. It appears that quite a few DS Forum Members have both Freeview and Freesat setups where they switch between the two via the AV button on the remote (or equivalent).

That way, they get the best of both worlds so that they get the larger channel choice of Freesat combined with quite a few of the channels that are pay on Sky, like Dave, Quest, Yesterday, etc. from Freeview.

In the longer term, that's what I hope to do.

[David (2)]

Freesatfromsky
-you have to pay £10 per month to Sky if you want to use the Sky+ recording feature, and you are limited to using a Sky branded box.

Freesat
-You choose the make of box you want, and there's no subscription needed.

We use Freesat (not the sky version) and Freeview and it works well. We do have issues with our freeview signal, but thats nothing to do with the equipment.

[alterego]

Thinking of dipping my toe in the Freesat water - is the £50 Ross kit in B&Q any good, or would I be better buying a cheap dish and maybe a s/h Panasonic (say) tuner off Ebay?

[grahamlthompson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alterego

Thinking of dipping my toe in the Freesat water - is the £50 Ross kit in B&Q any good, or would I be better buying a cheap dish and maybe a s/h Panasonic (say) tuner off Ebay?

The kit in B&Q (and Aldi) is not a freesat box, rather a generic free to air box. As such they won't have a posh 8 day epg.

Freesat is the free epg service that provides the 8 day epg for some of the free to air services from Astra2/Eurobird 1 (those that choose to pay to be included). Sky have a similar but much more expensive service to allow broadcasters to pay to be on the similar Sky epg (Unlike Freesat though Sky is also a broadcaster). Watching say BBC-HD on a generic fta box, a Freesat box or a sky box is the same channel. Switch most freesat boxes into free to air mode then they become just like the Ross kit, many more channels but only now and next epg.

Panasonic only do very expensive combined freesat twin tuner pvrs with either a built in dvd or blu-ray recorder.

Complete range of proper freesat kit here.

http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/

[grahamlthompson]

stuck post