He is my favourite to win. Every single task he get's stuck in. He's good at purchasing and selling. He is an all rounder in my opinion. He is definitely a strong candidate to win imo.
How is it Jim's fault if the rest are scared of him or whatever?
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Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“He is my favourite to win. Every single task he get's stuck in. He's good at purchasing and selling. He is an all rounder in my opinion. He is definitely a strong candidate to win imo.”
“He is my favourite to win. Every single task he get's stuck in. He's good at purchasing and selling. He is an all rounder in my opinion. He is definitely a strong candidate to win imo.”
Agreed - I think the edit in the last few weeks and Lord Sugar's faux outrage last night is a smokescreen - he is the obvious front runner with only Zoe or Helen being a challenge. Such a shame that his team keep losing as there is so much dross on the other team ( Glenn, Edna and unless Susan steps it up, she'll be in the firing line too!)
It does look like Jim's number is up, particularly since Lord Alan needs to show that he is top dog in the boardroom, the only one immune to Jim's Jedi mind tricks. In surviving so long he's inadvertently set LordAlan a challenge. However don't bet against Jim having some kind of epiphany, a 'mea culpa' moment where he shows himself to be humbled - like Claire a few series back - and thus secure his ticket to the final.
On the subject of the thread title - that's the classic justification for bullying. Jim sure comes across as a potential bully to me.
On the subject of the thread title - that's the classic justification for bullying. Jim sure comes across as a potential bully to me.
Originally Posted by scrappy555:
“
Tom was the only one that questioned the concept, everyone else went along with it.
”
“
Tom was the only one that questioned the concept, everyone else went along with it.
”
That's what Tom does every episode - as well as losing.
Originally Posted by RM83:
“On the subject of the thread title - that's the classic justification for bullying. Jim sure comes across as a potential bully to me.”
“On the subject of the thread title - that's the classic justification for bullying. Jim sure comes across as a potential bully to me.”
Exactly. If the behaviour of one person in a workplace situation comes across as intimidating to others, it can easily come across as bullying.
It's not 'their fault' for reacting to the way he is behaving. It could be lack of self-awareness on his part or a misunderstanding of what makes a good business person.
The moment in the previous epeisode where he told another candidate not to take him into the boardroom was astonishing. At that moment, it was the Project Manager's task to decide, not Jim's. How unprofessional, arrogant and egotistical of him to decide who would or wouldn't be up for firing. Bad business practice, too.
[
Wrong. You can now be blamed to come up with a word in a brainstorm, where you are invited to mention everything, no matter how silly or incredulous? And when that word is chosen by the pm as something he likes and possibly leads to a brilliant concept and everyone agrees, you are the one to hold your hands up and be taken back to the boardroom?
It's beyond ridiculous and he was right to stand up to Karen for suggesting that him mentioning a word in a brainstorm session made him responsible for the failure of the task.
Exactly.
I can see why Vincent was struggling to see who he should be taking with him in the boardroom and maybe it's time to change the rule of having to chose 2 teammembers to put the blame on. He could have chosen Ellie and leave it at that. He now had to chose between Jim and Natasha for the second person, not having enough reason to take any of them in, which then became a topic in itself as his choice didn't reflect the (false) opinion of LS, Karen or Nick.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I don't think the others being intimidated by Jim is the issue here.
Sugar was looking for Jim to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake with the product name and idea.
He's now seen by Sugar as a bit of a weasel, a game-player, and he doesn't like that.”
“I don't think the others being intimidated by Jim is the issue here.
Sugar was looking for Jim to hold his hands up and admit he made a mistake with the product name and idea.
He's now seen by Sugar as a bit of a weasel, a game-player, and he doesn't like that.”
Originally Posted by laurielou:
“Also there was something disrespectful about the way he spoke to Karen in the boardroom imo. Think he thought he could dominate her - which thankfully, he didn't.”
“Also there was something disrespectful about the way he spoke to Karen in the boardroom imo. Think he thought he could dominate her - which thankfully, he didn't.”
Originally Posted by DuaneBenzie:
“Is spot on and it's his own fault for being daft enough not to accept the criticism. He should have learned last week when Nick shut him up.
.”
“Is spot on and it's his own fault for being daft enough not to accept the criticism. He should have learned last week when Nick shut him up.
.”
Wrong. You can now be blamed to come up with a word in a brainstorm, where you are invited to mention everything, no matter how silly or incredulous? And when that word is chosen by the pm as something he likes and possibly leads to a brilliant concept and everyone agrees, you are the one to hold your hands up and be taken back to the boardroom?
It's beyond ridiculous and he was right to stand up to Karen for suggesting that him mentioning a word in a brainstorm session made him responsible for the failure of the task.
Originally Posted by scrappy555:
“I found nothing wrong with Jim tonight and Vincent was right not to take him into the boardroom.
There is a point though that I've yet to see anyone mention and I would have thought Jim would have brought it up when asked about the name. It was Vincent that came up with the concept that the dog food should be for all dogs.
He mentioned it first in the brainstorm then again in the taxi he said "I don't want to go into the boardroom and say we've developed a product only for small dogs or big dogs. we want to hit everything" It was then Jim said "I've written the word every, what about everydog"
Even though Jim came up with the name, he came up with a name to match the concept that his PM had given him and I don't think there is any way he can be blamed for that.
As for the way Jim talks to people, I think he's just doing exactly what the guys on YF were telling Ellie she should have been doing.”
“I found nothing wrong with Jim tonight and Vincent was right not to take him into the boardroom.
There is a point though that I've yet to see anyone mention and I would have thought Jim would have brought it up when asked about the name. It was Vincent that came up with the concept that the dog food should be for all dogs.
He mentioned it first in the brainstorm then again in the taxi he said "I don't want to go into the boardroom and say we've developed a product only for small dogs or big dogs. we want to hit everything" It was then Jim said "I've written the word every, what about everydog"
Even though Jim came up with the name, he came up with a name to match the concept that his PM had given him and I don't think there is any way he can be blamed for that.
As for the way Jim talks to people, I think he's just doing exactly what the guys on YF were telling Ellie she should have been doing.”
Exactly.
I can see why Vincent was struggling to see who he should be taking with him in the boardroom and maybe it's time to change the rule of having to chose 2 teammembers to put the blame on. He could have chosen Ellie and leave it at that. He now had to chose between Jim and Natasha for the second person, not having enough reason to take any of them in, which then became a topic in itself as his choice didn't reflect the (false) opinion of LS, Karen or Nick.
Originally Posted by Eve3275:
“BIB: What did he do wrong in the house?
”
“BIB: What did he do wrong in the house?
”
When Natasha came back to the house to report why the other two had been sacked, and quite rightly told them that LS thought Vincent should have brought Jim into the boardroom, Jim told her in his Jedi-like way that she had done the same amount of work as him in the task, and that she deserved to be there as much as him. She was seen/edited to be stunned into silence by this revelation.
If I'd been Natasha, I would have just said, "Well, LS said otherwise, as he specifically said you should have been brought back in, and told me that I'd done the job I'd been asked to do and didn't deserve to be brought back." Jim's big blue-eyed stare wouldn't work on me, I have my own, thanks!
Vincent was in a lose-lose situation last night. He was purportedly sacked for being tactical and not bringing Jim back in because Jim was reponsible for the name.
However, if he had brought him back in, as others have already said, it would have been wrong because Vincent clearly supported the name. If he's said he'd brought Jim back in for this reason, LS would have asked him why he had done so when he approved of the name himself?! He would then have accused Vincent of just bringing back Jim because LS had pointed out the error Jim made and of jumping on the bandwagon.
Vincent was always going to be a goner last night. I think LS was just disappointed that he was denied the opportunity to spar with Jim! I think LS is tiring of Jim's control issues and wants to bring him down a peg or two.
I didn't like the way Jim spoke to Karen in the boardroom or Natasha back at the house, even though I could see where he was coming from. I'm surprised LS didn't pull him up on how he spoke to Karen, as he did with how one of the girls spoke to Nick once (sorry, can't remember who). Jim may think Karen is an idiot, and is entitled to do so, but it's unprofessional to speak to her as such.
Originally Posted by Jayma:
“When Natasha came back to the house to report why the other two had been sacked, and quite rightly told them that LS thought Vincent should have brought Jim into the boardroom, Jim told her in his Jedi-like way that she had done the same amount of work as him in the task, and that she deserved to be there as much as him. She was seen/edited to be stunned into silence by this revelation.
If I'd been Natasha, I would have just said, "Well, LS said otherwise, as he specifically said you should have been brought back in, and told me that I'd done the job I'd been asked to do and didn't deserve to be brought back." Jim's big blue-eyed stare wouldn't work on me, I have my own, thanks!
Vincent was in a lose-lose situation last night. He was purportedly sacked for being tactical and not bringing Jim back in because Jim was reponsible for the name.
However, if he had brought him back in, as others have already said, it would have been wrong because Vincent clearly supported the name. If he's said he'd brought Jim back in for this reason, LS would have asked him why he had done so when he approved of the name himself?! He would then have accused Vincent of just bringing back Jim because LS had pointed out the error Jim made and of jumping on the bandwagon.
Vincent was always going to be a goner last night. I think LS was just disappointed that he was denied the opportunity to spar with Jim! I think LS is tiring of Jim's control issues and wants to bring him down a peg or two.
I didn't like the way Jim spoke to Karen in the boardroom or Natasha back at the house, even though I could see where he was coming from. I'm surprised LS didn't pull him up on how he spoke to Karen, as he did with how one of the girls spoke to Nick once (sorry, can't remember who). Jim may think Karen is an idiot, and is entitled to do so, but it's unprofessional to speak to her as such.”
“When Natasha came back to the house to report why the other two had been sacked, and quite rightly told them that LS thought Vincent should have brought Jim into the boardroom, Jim told her in his Jedi-like way that she had done the same amount of work as him in the task, and that she deserved to be there as much as him. She was seen/edited to be stunned into silence by this revelation.
If I'd been Natasha, I would have just said, "Well, LS said otherwise, as he specifically said you should have been brought back in, and told me that I'd done the job I'd been asked to do and didn't deserve to be brought back." Jim's big blue-eyed stare wouldn't work on me, I have my own, thanks!
Vincent was in a lose-lose situation last night. He was purportedly sacked for being tactical and not bringing Jim back in because Jim was reponsible for the name.
However, if he had brought him back in, as others have already said, it would have been wrong because Vincent clearly supported the name. If he's said he'd brought Jim back in for this reason, LS would have asked him why he had done so when he approved of the name himself?! He would then have accused Vincent of just bringing back Jim because LS had pointed out the error Jim made and of jumping on the bandwagon.
Vincent was always going to be a goner last night. I think LS was just disappointed that he was denied the opportunity to spar with Jim! I think LS is tiring of Jim's control issues and wants to bring him down a peg or two.
I didn't like the way Jim spoke to Karen in the boardroom or Natasha back at the house, even though I could see where he was coming from. I'm surprised LS didn't pull him up on how he spoke to Karen, as he did with how one of the girls spoke to Nick once (sorry, can't remember who). Jim may think Karen is an idiot, and is entitled to do so, but it's unprofessional to speak to her as such.”
Natasha like the thread I started said, is the only one that is itching to take him on and would have brought him back to the boardroom
I think the end last night with the Jim, Natasha words is telling for what is still to come, to me its all about the next time these two get a chance to bring each other back into the boardroom.
I will actually admire Jim more if he has the balls to bring Natasha back the next time he gets the chance, but I have a funny feeling he wont and he will bring two back that he is more confident of seeing off in a war of words.
Both Jim and Natasha would make excellent politcians
Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
I agree she picks up on whatever LS says and runs with it. not a good tactic as I'm sure someone got fired for this in a previous series.
I may be remembering this wrong but hasn't Karen already pointed this out to LS?
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.”
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.”
I agree. It was rather pathetic last night when she was telling them about directing the commercial and said that "I tried to distance myself from the whole Everydog idea because it gave me nothing" etc., something that was just complete bullshit. I'm glad that Jim saw that and called her out on it.
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
No, I don't think highly of Natasha either for the reasons you've given, but I felt she fairly acccurately reported what had happened in the boardroom when she arrived back and on this occasion, in this particular task I felt she was less blameworthy than Jim.
How is it an abusive husband's fault if his wife is scared of him? How is it Col Gaddafi's fault if half the population of Libya are scared of him?...I could go on.
Give me Natasha anyday (hubba hubba) she has a pokerface and keeps a quietly confident and slightly smug demeanour in the boardroom, while Jim gets all twitchy and starey O_O when anyone dare criticizes him.
Very unnerving.
Very unnerving.
Originally Posted by spoonfulofsense:
“How is it an abusive husband's fault if his wife is scared of him? How is it Col Gaddafi's fault if half the population of Libya are scared of him?...I could go on.”
“How is it an abusive husband's fault if his wife is scared of him? How is it Col Gaddafi's fault if half the population of Libya are scared of him?...I could go on.”
You shouldn't . Those examples are completely ridiculous compared to what this discussion is about.
Originally Posted by spoonfulofsense:
“How is it an abusive husband's fault if his wife is scared of him? How is it Col Gaddafi's fault if half the population of Libya are scared of him?...I could go on.”
“How is it an abusive husband's fault if his wife is scared of him? How is it Col Gaddafi's fault if half the population of Libya are scared of him?...I could go on.”
Wow! While I get your general point, I feel that you have somewhat over egged the pudding on this one.
Can you outline for me where Jim "abused" ANYONE on that show? You may say he is manipulative, sneaky, smarmy, charming, and everyone is entitled to their opinion on him - I personally would rather have a Jim that threw himself into the task than a whinger who did nothing the whole way through and then decided to castigate those who DID work - okay they lost the task, okay he was a tad smug when saying the name was his idea in the beginning - but I took his point on board fully, that there didnt seem to be a lot of dissent in the ranks for either the name or the concept.
There is a big difference in being assertive and confident and being abusive. They were a team. Jim is only "one" man - had that team not agreed or thought him in some way abusive I am sure we would have heard this bandied about a lot more. And if that team couldnt get their acts together and speak up if they didnt agree with Jim then they shouldnt be tryng to get into business with Suralan on that level.
His tone with Karen IMO was not disrespectful in any way, there certainly was a slight edge to it, as he was getting frustrated at her accusations, however I felt he remain calm and collected throughout and what others see as bullying I see as defending his position
I believe on YF last night Vincent told the truth, he honestly couldnt bring JIm in, as he had done so much work - whereas the others sat like beached flounders and complained afterwards.
Can you give me a few examples of what you would term "abuse" from Jim - cos I tells ya Ive been in business for over 35 years and if I bandied that word about in regard to some of my colleagues who act a lot worse, I certainly wouldnt be where I am now.
Originally Posted by Jayma:
“If I'd been Natasha, I would have just said, "Well, LS said otherwise, as he specifically said you should have been brought back in, and told me that I'd done the job I'd been asked to do and didn't deserve to be brought back."”
“If I'd been Natasha, I would have just said, "Well, LS said otherwise, as he specifically said you should have been brought back in, and told me that I'd done the job I'd been asked to do and didn't deserve to be brought back."”
I'd bet Natasha probably did say something like that, since her "stunned silence" after Jim's remark looked very edited to me.
The girl who was rude to Nick in the boardroom a few series back was Debra Barr. JIm was direct with Karen but he didn't take the same tone that Debra did with Nick and I think that was why he got away with it (as well as the fact that he actually had a point, imo).
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
“Are you guys seeing something in Natasha that i'm not? Imo she is weak and when she is in the board room she just changes her mind and agrees constantly with LS. She refutes things she's done, tried to push things onto the other candidates, she is a complete suck up.
She changes her mind or opinions to suit the situation that benefits her.
I'm sure LS has already raised this with her once before.”
That's not entirely true as she kept getting ignored during the brain-storming session and wasn't listened to when she raised further objections. She raises valid points on the tasks but Jim and his buddies crush the others' opinions - especially the women's. Yes, she acquits herself well in the boardroom, which she has every right to do. Perhaps you've been listening to Karren Brady.
Hopefully LA will decide for himself what's what.
Jim on the other hand is a total gobshite and is actually quite aggressive! He looked good in the beginning - I was on here sticking up for him
- and only has himself to blame that his true colours are now coming through for all to see, LOL.*Shudders*
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“That's not entirely true as she kept getting ignored during the brain-storming session and wasn't listened to when she raised further objections. She raises valid points on the tasks but Jim and his buddies crush the others' opinions - especially the women's. Yes, she acquits herself well in the boardroom, which she has every right to do. Perhaps you've been listening to Karren Brady. Hopefully LA will decide for himself what's what.
Jim on the other hand is a total gobshite and is actually quite aggressive! He looked good in the beginning - I was on here sticking up for him - and only has himself to blame that his true colours are now coming through for all to see, LOL.
*Shudders*”
“That's not entirely true as she kept getting ignored during the brain-storming session and wasn't listened to when she raised further objections. She raises valid points on the tasks but Jim and his buddies crush the others' opinions - especially the women's. Yes, she acquits herself well in the boardroom, which she has every right to do. Perhaps you've been listening to Karren Brady.
Hopefully LA will decide for himself what's what.Jim on the other hand is a total gobshite and is actually quite aggressive! He looked good in the beginning - I was on here sticking up for him
- and only has himself to blame that his true colours are now coming through for all to see, LOL.*Shudders*”
I haven't been listening to Karen, i've been watching the programme and seeing it for myself. The first few weeks she kept well out of everything and we hardly heard anything out of her mouth. Now Natasha has a habit of agreeing with everything Lord Sugar says. She's being a bit of a brown noser imo. People like Leon and Jim etc have been at the forefront of every episode.
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“...People like...Jim etc have been at the forefront of every episode.”
“...People like...Jim etc have been at the forefront of every episode.”
Which will be his ultimate downfall.
Originally Posted by tvtimes:
“I haven't been listening to Karen, i've been watching the programme and seeing it for myself. The first few weeks she kept well out of everything and we hardly heard anything out of her mouth. Now Natasha has a habit of agreeing with everything Lord Sugar says. She's being a bit of a brown noser imo. People like Leon and Jim etc have been at the forefront of every episode.”
“I haven't been listening to Karen, i've been watching the programme and seeing it for myself. The first few weeks she kept well out of everything and we hardly heard anything out of her mouth. Now Natasha has a habit of agreeing with everything Lord Sugar says. She's being a bit of a brown noser imo. People like Leon and Jim etc have been at the forefront of every episode.”
Jim has been one of the key candidates in terms of the editing, although he wasn't very visible in the treatments task. Only two significant moments - entering the treatment room, and then in the boardroom telling Lord Sugar that he went to the treatment room feeling like the cavalry.
I think Susan has been far more dominant than anyone else, although this week was her first quieter episode.
Originally Posted by Sweet FA:
“Which will be his ultimate downfall.”
“Which will be his ultimate downfall.
”
Maybe you're right. We know LS doesn't like a show off.
Originally Posted by meglosmurmurs:
“Jim has been one of the key candidates in terms of the editing, although he wasn't very visible in the treatments task. Only two significant moments - entering the treatment room, and then in the boardroom telling Lord Sugar that he went to the treatment room feeling like the cavalry.
I think Susan has been far more dominant than anyone else, although this week was her first quieter episode.”
“Jim has been one of the key candidates in terms of the editing, although he wasn't very visible in the treatments task. Only two significant moments - entering the treatment room, and then in the boardroom telling Lord Sugar that he went to the treatment room feeling like the cavalry.
I think Susan has been far more dominant than anyone else, although this week was her first quieter episode.”
He was brilliant in the buying task. Remember when he bought the meat? He knocked them down by a further tenner, and if he hadn't they would of lost that task, seeing as they won by a measley £8. He has shone in my opinion.
Originally Posted by meglosmurmurs:
“Jim has been one of the key candidates in terms of the editing, although he wasn't very visible in the treatments task. Only two significant moments - entering the treatment room, and then in the boardroom telling Lord Sugar that he went to the treatment room feeling like the cavalry.
I think Susan has been far more dominant than anyone else, although this week was her first quieter episode.”
“Jim has been one of the key candidates in terms of the editing, although he wasn't very visible in the treatments task. Only two significant moments - entering the treatment room, and then in the boardroom telling Lord Sugar that he went to the treatment room feeling like the cavalry.
I think Susan has been far more dominant than anyone else, although this week was her first quieter episode.”
I wouldn't say 'dominat' she has had lot's of airtime sure, but a lot of the time she is shown to be moody, petty, wrong and that the other candidates don't respect her opinion. That isn't what i would call dominant or an ideal candidate.
Jim is all bluster and no substance. He is good at defending himself, but that's about it.
He isn't exactly an arch-manipulator, as it's obvious what he's doing.
He isn't exactly an arch-manipulator, as it's obvious what he's doing.
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