Well, ITV Meridian HD shares the BBC's t/p so that will be going S2 too. Not that that affects real Freesat, it's encrypted (god knows why ?) so only available to Sky boxes with a card.

Personally I'd rather see a bit rate increase than an increase to 1920 as it will yield a better picture.

Now if we could get an increase to 1920 + a bit rate increase over and beyond that required to maintain current quality at the increased 1920 resolution, then that would be a real winner.

C'mon BBC how about 1920 with an average around 16-18mbs?

Not a bat's chance in hell.

Ooops.

Sorry.

Someone said it automatically updates every day so I cant do it unless I want to flash it every morning and theres no wat Ill do that.

Post #6 As no answer do I assume that the BBC will make the change overnight, so users do their little nit any time on 6/6?

I would wager more on a resolution and bit rate reduction, with the BBC blaming it on the "cuts" and telling anyone who complains there is no difference and that neither has an impact on PQ...

Yes, been 1440 makes sod all difference, before they crippled the bitrate it was still the best picture of all the HD channnels.

No doubt it will be timed for the convenience of the broadcaster on the Acton Industrial Estate.

The way the BBC treat HD to the licence fee payer, i wouldn't put it past the BBC pulling a stunt like that...

You can get away with up to three pages of deletes I think then save and continue.

Its still very annoying though and yet another bug they havent fixed, its easily repeatable too.

Its also something we shouldnt have to go through because Humax are making the box more user unfriendly which I didnt think was possible but they did it.

The existing data rate is at 33.8Mb.
Given symbol rate of 22000, FEC 5/6 & QPSK the available bit rate is 22x2x5/6 = 36.7Mb.
Then they add some more coding ending at 33.8Mb.

With the new one at 23000, FEC 8/9 & QPSK - I get 40.9Mb.
Then subtracting 2.9Mb for additional coding I'm guessing it'l end up close to 38Mb.

LinowSat measured 4.64Mb of null bytes on this tp yesterday.
Adding the extra 4.2Mb, they could end up with 8.8Mb of extra space...
And what could the BBC use that to? ...

Anyhow - does anyone know if they intend to replace the encoder as well?

Have the BBC Chosen a FEC Rate of 8/9 to make receiving HD abroad harder as there will be less error correction Data..

I did check the difference with this calculator:
http://www.satellite-calculations.co...e/Downlink.htm

Can't say that I know all the variables, but the difference isn't significant.
I actually get 0.6dB better SNR with the new one - is there any other benefits with the DVB-S2 standard?

If they really wanted to make it hard, they could have changed it to 8PSK FEC 9/10.
Then it's 4.2dB worse.

I have to agree entirely Loz that that seems the more likely scenario.

Hasn't it been said though that bandwidth is actually only a very minor broadcasting cost and saves virtually nothing when cut?

In which case its hard to see the BBC's logic in their existing decisions beyond matching Freesat to Freeview in "fairness" which when looked at carefully isn't arguably fair or even handed at all. Since when was spoiling one platform to match another fair on the viewers of either?

Allowing both to perform to their strengths is even handed and gives people the choice of which platform they choose to watch which seems eminately more fair as no-one is disadvantaged because if you don;t like the offerings of one platform you can always switch to the other when they're FTA.

You can always promise to bring the lower platform's bit rate up to the higher platforms bit rate if bandwidth ever allows but crippling one to be fair to the other isn't fair on either set of viewers as for one it spoils the picture and for the other it takes away their ability to choose their platform based on their preferences.



I was beginning to think I was alone these days on this forum with my views Nigel and you and Loz have restored my faith.

Also, for anyone who hasn't been around here and the BBC HD forums as long as I have, those who have been will remember that I was actually one of the supporters of a bit rate reduction originally provided it was done to take advantage of the new codecs and provided it resulted in a better picture or at least one of equal quality overall. There was advantage at the time in making room for more programming given the alleged shortage of narrow footprint transponders on 2D, hence my support.

Obviously I never envisaged that the BBC would cut it to the point of a resulting reduction in PQ which is why I have campaigned ever since to get it re-raised to a level that puts the wow back.

Of course bitrate is the issue: why else was BBC HD showing stills during the Royal Wedding if not to improve bitrate on BBC One HD?

No matter how much we complain, the BBC will not go back now because then they would be accused of doing a U-turn and buckling to the pressure dispite it being the right thing to do.

If Globecast can uplink the BBC HD channels from Worldwide at full res and a bitrate that compliments it delivering a PQ that wipes the floor with the NHK World HD picture then the BBC HD domestic channels can do the same and the BBC know it!
Rant over..

I assumed it was because they were worried that BBC1 HD and ITV1 HD would contend too much in the Freeview statmux pool on the Freeview HD mux, given that they'd largely be showing the same pictures and the peak bitrate demands would happen at the same time. So although it was done to free up some bitrate, they'd probably argue it was only because this was one of the few circumstances that statmuxing wouldn't necessarily cope well with.

Has anyone asked the BBC and got an answer?

yes, you are right, the error correction is more efficient using DVB-S2... the signal will be a bit more robust than before.
The "normal" mode used for the 26MHz Astra transponders is DVB-S2 8PSK, 22000, FEC 2/3, => 43Mbit/s datarate.
Interestingly, the BBC mode QPSK, 23000 FEC 8/9 => 40.628 Mbit/s datarate corresponds with the DVB-T2 Mux datarate...

Yet more evidence of Freesat being dumbed to match Freeview?

That is traditionally solved by inserting different delays in each service going through the same encoder. As per ITV1 SD.

Not really evidence, but the numbers are quite similar:

DVB-T2 256QAM 32k-ext FEC 2/3 => 40.21 MBit/s
DVB-S2 QPSK 23000 FEC 8/9 => 40.628MBit/s

And the BBC could use the common mode 8PSK / FEC 2/3 which is just a bit less robust than QPSK FEC 8/9 and offers more netto datarate...

DVB-S2 QPSK FEC 8/9 needs a C/N of 6.2 dB
DVB-S2 8PSK FEC 2/3 needs a C/N of 6.62 dB

for comparison, the old DVB-S QPSK FEC 5/6 needs a C/N of 6.53 dB

But who can you delay??? - the answer is likely to be neither ...
so to do something to help the pool would be a good thing -


I suspect considerable cost savings in the operation of the C&M centre if there are identical settings ... It also saves time checking the PQ on a different coder config.. for a starting point ...

BBC HD DVB-T2 comprises BBC One HD, BBC HD, ITV1 HD FTA & Channel 4 HD
BBC HD DVB-S2 will comprise BBC One HD, BBC HD, ITV1 HD encrypted & {BBC Two HD}?

It certainly won't be Channel 4 HD.