Surely it's just for the temporary 3D channel? No doubt when the new Astra sats go up from July onwards, BBC will start bagging plenty of space on those, I don't think we'll see BBC TWO, THREE or FOUR HD until BBC are satisfied a high enough % of Freeview customers can access HD progs on their TV through iplayer.

Sorry what is the c&m centre?

Control and Management Centre!

Coding and Mux ...

Ahh thanks.

I would have thought that coding and mux allocation was automated though with one coding box for Freeview and another for Freesat.

But the S2 is permanent. Obviously they are going to test 3D, but BBC Two HD is IMHO the most likely permanent use of the fourth stream.

On Freeview HD, the BBC are on record as expecting to start a fifth HD service next year, due to encoder improvements, widely expected to be used first as an Olympics interactive channel. The permanent use is likely to be 5 HD.

So if satellite transponder use mirrors terrestrial, we can also expect a fifth HD stream on 2D. Even with new 1N capacity becoming available in August/September I think 2D use will continue until the bird reaches the end of its life or breaks down.

Freeview is regional so has up to ~20 different encoders per PSB mux. The Freeview HD mux is carrying 2 different versions of ITV1 HD so far, so there is more than one box even though BBC One HD is national with only one version.

Obviously the BBC satellite HD transponder is a single identity but who knows whether they will regionalise it when 1N appears? IMHO I doubt whether the BBC will have enough cash for full HD regionalisation except on Freeview.

[quote=Ray Cathode;50574529] The Freeview HD mux is carrying 2 different versions of ITV1 HD so far, so there is more than one box even though BBC One HD is national with only one version.
/QUOTE]

Plus stv HD makes 3 on Freeview. Apologies to our Gaelic friends

I wouldn't be so sure, if they want to show further 3D broadcasts or an extra HD red button stream i.e. for the Olympics they can't just turn off BBC TWO HD, they need the space kept free.

Wouldn't they run the 3D on BBC HD channel?

Then BBC1 HD or BBC2 HD can be showing their 'regular' 2D programming, with BBC HD simulcasting the 3D version where appropriate.

In the same way that BBC HD simulcast HD versions of either BBC1 or BBC2 when they were SD only.

Well I still don't see why having Freesat at a different bit rate is such a problem.

OK so they need 20+ encoders for BBC for regional variations for Freeview but Freesat HD is still only 2 encoders more (BBC ONE HD and BBC HD).

Hardly seems a huge task for the those managing the centre to manage 22 encoding tasks instead of 21(20 BBC ONE HD + 1 BBC HD).

Also, I think the 3D point is a good one albeit perhaps not in the way that was originally brought up, but if they're going to carry 3D on Freesat, even for one off events, then they're going to have to encode it separately which again takes away the idea that somehow some huge saving can be made by having Freeview and Freesat the same.

To be fair we have known for 5 years that the BBC were going to start using DVB-S2 for HD at some stage.

See you all tomorrow in S2 then. I'm guessing 4-5am.

I wonder how many of the 'hardcore' will be staying up to see them go off and come back!

I wonder if they intend to put ITV 3D on there? maybe there wasnt enough bandwith without the switch to s2 so they started the test encrypted on the other frequency.

Or sky get's this 3D channel as a pay & we get ITV2-4 in HD, i'd be cool with that

You and me both, but realistically we won't see ITV2&3&4HD on a Freesat box near you for quite some time... Another pay venture from ITV was always on the cards and if they feel they can get something out of 3D that makes business sense, they will go for it, maybe compete with Sky 3D even..

Or we are all barking up the wrong tree... We'll know soon enough!!

The last I heard was that the BBC had walked away from 3D and saw it only as a fad.

Apparently the S2 change over will happen around 2am..
That would coincide with the EPG aswell!

3D is a fad IMHO..

& it's gone

Transition completed overnight automatically - presumably before the housekeeping switched in - and both channels retuned. Signal quality and strength 100%. So no problems.

Picture Quality looks good - can some give some technical feedback on this? BBCHD looks very sharp - can't tell on BBC1 HD as it's just 'Breakfast'.

[quote=Ray Cathode;50576261]
Plus S4C HD on Welsh DTT transmitters, so that makes four ?

General
Complete name : H :\BBC HD Preview_1\BBC HD Preview_1.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
Format profile : No PAT/PMT
File size : 558 MiB
Duration : 8mn 30s
Overall bit rate : 9 175 Kbps

Video
ID : 5500 (0x157C)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 8mn 29s
Bit rate : 8 334 Kbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16 :9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4 :2 :0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.214
Stream size : 506 MiB (91%)
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 5501 (0x157D)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 8mn 30s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front : L C R, Side : L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Video delay : -832ms
Stream size : 23.4 MiB (4%)

So still 1440. Too soon to know if there's any bitrate change. I agree the HD preview loop did look very good on a bit of Jools.

My FTA HD D-Sat receiver is picking up the BBC HD channels with no retuning ie at 22000 symbol rate! I am mildly surprised.

Had to do a channel rescan but OK now (Humax Foxsat HDR).
I called in at my local Sony Centre on Saturday (Lincoln) and was amazed that they hadn't been informed about this.
I wonder how many people will be calling them today to report a 'fault'?

Without checking back, I am sure I have seen it, but would some kind sole, give me the Freq for the new broadcasts, so I can add them to other sats on my Panasonic TXL32D28.
Many thanks


JO.