I'm sorry to be a bit dense, but can you help my brain with this. When DT's Dr met River in the 51st century, he didn't know her. That was the last point in River's life, she died there. Everything that has now happened has been in River's past. The Dr knows River now, in the various timelines, that have happened before the 51st century. So why doesn't he remember her in the 51st century ? What am I missing ?? Help !

The meeting between River and 10 was the first time 10 met River. He wouldn't remember meeting her in his future, because that would be precognitive and... wibblely, wobbly, timey whimy.

ok. Basically River and the Doctor both travel in Time and do not meet in the correct order, he did not know her then because she sent a message through time to the wrong version of the Doctor an earlier one. River has a vortex manipulator (and from todays episode is part time lord it appears) and so can time travel too,,,River also says that they meet roughly in opposite directions. In the library he was younger not met her, she was older and at the end of their time together. V bittersweet and lovely...

one more question...i realise that the library was the first time for dr (tennant) to meet river. As 10 regenerated into 11...and 11 has met river, does 11 now know that river died in the library? How can it be in 11's future when he has already regenerated from 10? if 10/11 kept diaries they would have that event in it so Dr 11 knows that river dies, maybe he can go back and now do something about it??

head ache!

Rivers future is the Doctors past. Rivers past is the Doctors future. The Doctor first met River in the library, when she died. Any encouner the Doctor had with River, was after he had seen her die

Yes he does know, but he can't tell her . It's in 11's past, River's future.

I still don't get it ! He knows her NOW doesn't he ? Wouldn't he have got to the 51st century and think, hang on a minute, I met that woman in the 21st century ? Sorry !

ok cheers I thought that 11 knew about river dying...and all the more poignant knowing that she is amy's daughter.....why didnt she regenerate when she died? mabye used up her lifelines?

I think you're running down the wrong avenue a bit here.
The 10th Doctor came BEFORE the 11th. So the 11th Doctor, fresh from regeneration, will know that he saw River Song die in his last incarnation.

When he regenerated, he didn't suddenly gain access to a psychic memory bank where he knew all of his future adventures with River. He only gets to know them as they happen. So there are still many adventures still to happen - but he doesn't know what they are yet, aside from when River checks her diary and says "have we done xyz yet?" (when obviously he can then remember that she's mentioned it, thus is has to happen at some point in the future).

Like the other members have said - it's a bit wibbly-wobbly, spacey-wacey, timey-wimey.

I know it's HIS future, but then he's travelled back again so wouldn't he remember ? Am I thinking about it too linearly ?? Will he not ever get to the point where 'time' catches up with them and they meet in the 51st century without the aid of time travel and look at her and think, yeah, I know you !

I'm getting lost trying to understand your question. Head hurts

I know, I'm giving up and going with the flow !!!! Thanks for all your comments, did help my head a bit !

Yes, you're thinking about it in too much of a linear way. There won't ever come a time when they'll accidentally meet in the 51st century because neither of them live entirely in chronological order - there isn't a Doctor walking around on Earth or any other planet every day of the 51st Century, for example, he dips in and out. River on the other hand does live in a chronological fashion in the sense that she spends all those years in the one prison and keeps returning there. The Doctor never returns consistently to one particular time, so their timelines will never cross in a way that neither the Doctor nor River don't expect.

Ok, here goes. 10th Doctor wont remember anything that happens to 11th Doctor because it happened after he regenerated. Even if the 11th Doctor goes to a time before the 10th Doctor and does something, it wouldn't generate a new memory in an old body.

No, he doesn't stay in any one time period for a long period of time, so he doesn't catch up to that time. He jumps around from century to century. So does River. Occasionally they both end up at the same place, but this doesn't happen in the same sequence for each of them.

Thankyou Mystical 123, that did help my brain !

I know it's a shock, but Doctor Who is a show about time travel!

this was posted on another thread..its the timelines, might help make sense of things

this pretty much makes sense of the whole time travel conundrum- well as much sense as it will ever make...

You are kind of missing the whole point of the show!

He travels in time. He met River in the library when he was younger. He regenerated into 11, but he's still the same person and still met her there when he was younger.

Time isn't linear for the Doctor (and nor is it for River).

He's not going to meet her again in the 51st century (unless he happens to go back there and cross his own timeline, which he avoids doing).

Yes, we know that River Song is Melody Pond.

But who's the father?

I am most certain it's The Doctor.

1. "I hope my old man didn't see that" Referring to The Doctor as her father
2. River song is a time lord.
3. River song is able to read gallifraian writing.

There are also alot of unanswered stuff.

1. Why did silence say "Soon your part will be over" what part?
2. Who brought the tardis to explode in the previous series?
3. Why did the person in the space suit kill the Doctor?
4. If River song is really the girl in the space suit. Why doesn't she remember what she did as a child? Could it be 2 seperate time lords?
5. Why didn't River song regenerate rather than being 'saved' in the library?
6. River Song 'Killed a man' the best man she's ever known. A good man'. A good man who goes to war?

added answers in bold

There is no way the Doctor is going to be snogging his daughter. However the implication is that he brings River up for at least part of her life (hence how she learns how to fly the Tardis) but then they end up getting together. Doctor, we are a little shocked at you....

5. I rewatched this episode and the whole point was the doctor was going to sacrifice himself but they both knew even he would die from it, so she handcuffs him and sacrifices herself, so if even the doctor wouldn't survive must have meant he wouldnt have been able to regen