At the start of the episode, when he sent the "message" to the Cybermen.

He blew up their ships with countless Cybermen, Cyberwomen and Cyberchildren on board without any warnings etc.

I know he was angry, but he wasn't angry at them...

Meh. They're barely even alive.

The Doctor has previously taken the view that, to the extent that Cyberman have any humanity, it's a trapped and tortured humanity, and death is a liberation.

What I found more interesting was that the Cybermen seemed to be a recognised geo-political (galactico-political?) grouping, almost like the Daleks were in Revelation of the Daleks,

That's one of the points in AGMGTW
The doctors now more like a warrior than a doctor
They say in hushed tones something along the lines of: "He took out a whole cyber-legion!"
The 9th doc wouldn't blow up the daleks and earth even though he thought they would end the whole universe, the 10th more or less always gave everyone at least one chance, now the 11th doctor just comes in and starts blowing s**t up.

The 4th Doc couldn't kill the Daleks at the point of creation.

A topic I'm particularly interested in, as I thought it was a very 'throwaway' action and it didn't sit particularly well with me, so thanks for posting and for the replies


Thanks for highlighting so clearly why it seemed gratuitous

But the immeidate safety of noone that he loved was at stake.

That's the American way!

A Good Man goes to War..

the idea is in the title.

These seem to be our universe Cybermen not the alt Universe ones. Perhaps one day we will find out how the come to look very similar to the alt Universe ones.

Think 11 is free of all the torment and guilt and confusion that drove 9 and 10.

WTF are you on about?

I think this was explored in the episode (and will be again in the second half) like River Song said, what has the Doctor become. I think this is the start of Doctor realizing this and trying to fix it. The Doctor shouldn't a god-like figure to be feared, and I think this is the step towards fixing that. I think this is where the "he'll rise higher than ever before, and fall so much further" comes into it as well.

Yeah I feel as if we're missing something with the Cybermen. The last time we saw them they were barely surviving. Now they seem to be a fully fledged Empire.

We didn't see him do it. He may have just told Rory to do whatever it takes. Love to know how he did it though. The Cybermen were reporting intruders on numerous levels which suggests our Rory already had quite an army.

I also have to wonder how he got there. It's been pointed out before that the Doctor had nver allowed Amy to do much in the Tardis but ahd been showing Rory a lot about it all the way through this series - and the last - including getting him to help with repairs. Was the Doctor training him up even before Amy was supposedly swapped for a copy?

Whatever, am I the only one who thought the three Cybermen at the round "table" looked like they were playing cards

The Cybermen were a Galaxy spanning empire in the 26th Century, yes they were seemingly reduced to a few scattered remnants by the 29th Century but the current story takes place in the 51st/52nd Century.
If only one of the scattered Cyberships managed to take over a planet between the 29th and 51st Century they could well be a Galactic Force again by the time of this story.

I have another Theory,, maybe this isnt the real Doctor
in the Ganger Two-Parter, it was made known that the ganger's are the complete oppsite of the real people when it comes to violence, Maybe the Doctor made more than 1 other ganger of himself before the First Episode of this series and its been the second Ganger Doctor running about so far

The Doctor knows all about women drivers, so doesn't allow them to drive his TARDIS

*Runs away and hides*

It's the opposite. It was established that the copies are no more or less good, bad, violent or anything else than the originals. The only reason the Jenny copy was violent was that Jenny herself was mentally unstable - she had a hidden dark-side to her mind that she'd described to Rory as being Jenny - only tough.

All of the other copies were only aggresive very briefly when they were terrified because the humans wanted to kill them. When the cards were down, they all helped each other and the copies of the Doctor and Cleaves even gave their lives to save the others whilst a dying human effectively handed his family over to his copy to raise and love.

Yeah what was the deal with the cybermen?

And how did Rory become so masterful ??

The seventh Doctor used the hand of Omega to destroy a whole planet - Skaro- and everything on it. A cyber fleet is small potatoes in comparison!

He gets that way when he's protecting Amy.

It was stated in 'Remembrance of the Daleks' that everyone including the Thals had left Skaro and the Daleks had left their original home to spread and conquer the universe so there wasn't much left on Skaro presumably.

Well there was me thinking that the Cybusmen (yes, those were Cybusmen, no matter what that stupid blank logo says) have finally become an actual threat until the Doc blew them up. Well, as it was the twelfth Cyber fleet, doesn't thet mean that there's 11 other fleets left, and they are probably quite annoyed that the Doctor killed their Cyber-brothers

It's a possibility...hence why he has to die. He has become Too Warrior..he knows he is out of control or some sort of thing. It has enough to keep me watching, but lord the first half hour was slapstick mess. I do hope the Doctor is a ganger, as all the "warrior" stuff is a but disappointing, and also a bit unconvincing. We have a cowardly Doctor here, not a warrior...

I am a bit fed up of the lack of originality - reference to other films and references to itself. If Moffat would get his head out of his arse and write a proper story...too much set-up all the bleeding time. it was so Empire Strikes Back -eg the ending where Han is taken away frozen. Empire Strikes Back was the best Star wars film though, as it combined a lull with genuine emotion, a shift in story-focus ..this was not the best Dr Who. Thank goodness for the Doctor's Wife.

I like Frances Barber - she was great.