yes, I know I might have got the wording a bit wrong there, but u get the gist...

We saw his high - he thought he had saved the baby and amy without a drop of blood spilt, but did we really see him faller lower than he ever has before? I mean, yes the baby turned to goo and Lorna died, but about three minutes later when he found out who River was he was giggling and smiling as he stepped into the tardis.

Do you think that two minute bit was his low then? Or is it still to come?

Probably still to come in the next episode.

Yeah I'm guessing the 'fall so much further' part is yet to come. Though probably not till episode 12 or 13.

Probably still to come .

Also, In The Big Bang when River said, "you are going to find out very soon now and I'm sorry, but that's when everything changes" Have we had what was meant by that yet or is that still to come? I don't think anything's happened yet to be sorry about, right?

I think it was about what River said to him, everything he'd caused, he gathered an army and sent some of them to their deaths just to save his friend's baby

I'm hoping he still has further to fall. Great though AGMGtW was, it didn't end on much of a low.

He wiped out an entire armada of Cyber-ships simply to make the point: 'You will answer Rory's question.'

That's pretty low, on the Doctor's 'Everyone has the right to life' scale.

Was it just me or did the voice of the headless monks papal mainframe,when they took that soldiers head, Rivers voice.

Don't forget, if River was brought up by the church to hate the Doctor, is she still telling the truth, as she said....she lies. When the Doctor first meets River, she may well be conditioned to kill him.

I think the church militants are the ones who engineered, tricked the doctor into getting rid of the silents, they needed them gone for their plan to work.

I still don't think we have seen the real manipulator behind this all. Is river the real power behind this and its up to the doctor to change her.

What was the point in the soldier donating his head?

The premise behind the headless monks is so that they dont think, they just act, go by heart.

I still wonder why the church militants have river locked up and she is paying a penance for killing a good man. They are the ones who want the Doctor dead so why lock her up if she did that.

I'm just baffled.

What was the point of any of it frankly.

Why did Madame Kovarian want the Doctor dead? Who is she? Where did she come from? What did the Doctor do to cause such evil to retaliate against him? Who cares?

You can fall in love.

Now THAT's entirely ripping the storyline from Angel, instead of just having some similarities

Personally I think it may have something to do with telling Amy and Rory that their beloved daughter is going to sacrifice herself for him...

This ep was his "never risen higher" the next ep after the break will be his "fall so much lower".

i think the series end is going to have a downer cliffhanger like empire strikes back.

he may save the day but i think at the end of it hell be devastated

Personally, I think he needs to lose something. Properly lose. Not save the day, not put the fear of god into his enemies. Just lose.

It not only makes a change to the story, it brings out the best in the actors.

Yes! Loads of tears and anguish, that's what we like!

He lost his mates kid and found out he's turned into a monster, so now most of his enemies are only against him because they fear him.
Jeez what more do you people want?

I've just had another thought regarding River and the Doctor- how's this for a theory?

River is raised and programmed to kill the Doctor, but when she meets the Doctor as a young girl she falls in love with him instead. Because they were determined she should kill the Doctor, they threaten to kill her or make it impossible for her to live should she fail to. Hence, when the Doctor discovers this, he decides to sacrifice himself in order to save her. He then goes off to travel the galaxy with River (remember the 1103 Doctor had done a lot more with her than our 903 Doc). FInally, when it gets to a point where she barely knows him, he arranges to die on the beach to save her.

THere are a few problems with this obviously:

1) Is it RIver who therefore kills him on the beach, or an arranged assasin?
2) Since the Doc is 'dead' on the beach, why the need to imprison River?

I'm still mainly in the camp where Rory is the man River kills, but this seems to tie in nicely with the most recent evidence. Plus it means both the Doctor and River die at the opposite ends of their timelines- (he on the beach to a young RIver possibly, her in the library). Also, as the camera pans back, he says something to the astronaut we can't hear- his name maybe? 9though why that would make her trust him I don't know)

I agree (but then I probably would!)


Yeah hope so


I think that's just me and you, not the entire forum! Forum holiday here I come!

I assumed it's a simple recruitment drive to increase the monk's numbers.

I doubt that too many people want to sign up to be a headless monk, so as pointed out by one of the monk's to The Fat One it's part of their stanard contracts that anyone wanting to employ their services has to donate one person to be converted (pay a tithe as it were).

Obviously this would be difficult if they were being hired by a couple of people but with an army it's easy, the Generals just pick a lowly private and order him to pop along. They chose the Fat One. Whether they (the Generals) knew exacly what would happen or just thought he'd have to attend Sunday School for a month wasn't shown...but I suspect they knew.

LOL....Sad but true.

Still a lot to come I think

The fact you're asking these questions is enough.

As for the falling - the Doctor has always prided himself on being a force for good, and for fun otherwise. Now he's realising how much impact his meddling has on the universe. He's no longer an anonymous nobody that stumbles into trouble, he's raising armies, and armies are being raised against him. He's the reason things are so monumentally messed up.