Hello!!

Like many, I'm quite baffled as to how the cot could help River tell the Doctor her true identity. Could it be possible that the Doctor lied to Rory and Amy about the cot being his (knowing well that they would not be able to read Gallifreyan)?

if so, the problem then is - whose cot is it??

Also, I think that River is a Gamma Girl (thus he knows where to find her - forests of Gamma (and maybe that's where he meets a younger Lorna Bucket)).

The Doctor knows this because the only reason why she would have been called River Song is because that's the only translation for her real name. And in her speech right after she arrives at Demons Run she displays knowledge of the Gamma Forest language.

What!? We already know who/what/where River is from now! It even says in the episode that they've taken her to earth! The Gamma bit is only Lorna.

Its his cot but has it been used since? remember he deliberately didn't answer the question about having children.

( I don't include Jenny in that because she was machine made from DNA and popped out as an adult, but rather other children)

As stated we know who river is she is not Lorna Bucket.

Lorna Bucket and Gamma forests will be a future episode, the story of her meeting the doctor and the word doctor meaning warrior in gamma has be laid out ready.

Lorna just used her own native language that all.

River knew about their language and history because she is a doctor (to be professor) of archaeology therefore studies history, cultures and languages. A bit like archaeologists learning Hieroglyphics, Latin and Greek etc.

oh yes that does make sense

hmm....

I need re-watch!

I was confused by the cot bit. I thought it was implied that the cot was that of a future child of River and the Doctor's? But now everyone's saying it was the Doctor's name? I didn't watch confidential though so I'm pretty sure I missed a trick.

We know he has had children, he admits as much in the Doctor's daughter and everyone knows he had a granddaughter (Susan).
I think that the Doctor was telling the truth, the cot was his. Whether it's been used since is another matter.
As to the cot revealing River's identity, it didn't. http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/...85930418970624

Must admit, I thought the idea was that Melody Pond became known as River Song, after the people of the Gamma forest mis-interpreted the words 'melody pond' and effectively re-christened her. The translation of the name on Lorna's leaf-cloth demonstrated the origin of the (new) name.
I guess I may be wrong! But if Melody/River had no connection with Gamma, how did her change of name arise?

someone help me out here - in regard to SM's tweet -

if it was the prayer leaf, then why would River talk about translating Gallifreyan?

and only show Amy the prayer leaf as a second resort?

It was the Doctor's cot, it had the Doctor's real name on it. River was demonstrating that she understood the writing, and therefore knew his true name. That's why she was able to whisper it in his ear during the Library story.

oh right.. I see.

on another note, that would mean that River's been leading him on all this time! He assumes that he can trust her because he told her his name, but all she did was read it off his cot

Granted, not really her "fault", as she dies very soon after telling him his name...

It has the doctors name on it. Alex Kingston confirmed this on doctor who confidential

I'm not entirely sure about that! I've just re-watched and I can interpret it in two ways:
1) River/Melodies name is on the end of the cot in high Gallifreyan but can't be translated so she hands over the prayer leaf.
2) Some other Gallifreyan word is on the cot and Amy mistakenly thinks that that is what River is pointing to. River then corrects them saying it's not possible to read that, the prayer leaf is what she was talking about.

Because Amy thought what River had told the Doctor was on the cot. She didnt have any reason to suspect the prayer leaf. That was my take anyway.

As the Doctor saw the Melody/River name on the prayer leaf, not the cot, I suspect it was only the Doctors real name on the cot.

It just hit me - the Doctor had 2 revelations

1) who River is
2) how she knows his name

that seems to explain the scene for me.

It also explains why River spends so much time talking about the Gallifreyan writing on the cot - she was explaining the 2 revelations to Amy, one after another.

because Amy asked "What did you tell the Doctor" - thus leading River to explain what the Doctor saw and understood!

it makes sense for me now =D

She didn't tell the Doctor his name, she just pointed to the old Gallifreyan writing on the cot, explaining that she knows his name and that she knows his name because she can read Gallifreyan. I think the only time she has actually spoken his name, was in the Library on their last meeting and that she did this as a last resort to gain his trust because he didn't know who she was yet.

Many of us assumed that The Doctor told River his name and that's how she knew it, but we have just learnt she read it because it was on the cot. But, doesn't explain how she learnt Old Gallifreyan - I'm guessing the Doctor taught her it at some point.

I also thought that when Amy picked up the prayer leaf, it was the wrong way round - so she read the translation of River's name in reverse order and at some point in the future River decides to go by her alias rather than her real Name for reasons we might find out in the future or maybe because it just sounds "cooler" lol.

In relation to the first part of your message, I took it that she could read the name on the cot so she must be part time lord as the tardis doesn't translate it. She then pointed out the prayer leaf in the cot, which had just been translated from whatever language it was in to english so he could read her name.

I agree with the second part of your message completely.

River/Mel knowing that she would be meeting her parents before she was actually born probably just decided to use the name River Song to avoid questions.

The Doctor: Amy Pond, this is Professor Melody Pond.
Amy: Oh, I've always thought of calling my daughter Melody.
River: Uhm.

It will be interesting to see if Amy/Rory/Doctor start calling River Melody now.

To answer myself, I suppose what people are thinking is that... Melody Pond becomes known as River Song.. from the moment by the cot - when the name on the prayer leaf is auto-translated from the Gamma language variant - onwards. Is that right?

EDIT: Oh, just saw Corwins reply - ta!

Actually she said she 'thinks' its The Doctor's name. So she doesn't know yet either.

I think it is still part of the whole mystery.

It was already established both in ToA and TPO that River can both read and write Gallifreyan. So there was no point needed to demonstrate understanding which is why I feel this line of argument is without merit.

She can read and write Old High Gallifreyan, not necessarily the newer? circles script.

Here's a couple of ideas.

River Song clearly shows the Doctor the writing on the cot, and it appears that this in itself explains who she is. River Song also explains why Amy can't read it.

The Doctor doesn't see the material. This is used to explain her identify to Amy and Rory.

So what if River Song has two identities.

Idea 1: River song is Amy and Rory's child, and she is also the Doctor's mother. In some languages, a child's name is a combination of their parents - so telling the Doctor that River Song is Melody AND her true identify. This would also explain why:

a. He says "but we kissed" - as he has just kissed his Mum.
b. He asks "how do I look" - asking his Mum how her son looks.


Idea 2: River song is Amy and Rory's child, and she is also the Doctor in a future re-generation. The name is the Doctor's name, and it is also River's - as they are the same person. This would explain why:

a. He says "but we kissed" - as he has just kissed himself.
b. He asks "how do I look" - asking himself how he looks in an earlier re-generation.


We have been told Melody has both Human and Time Lord DNA, but the Time Lord DNA could have taken over... in either scenario.

Either idea would also explain why the Doctor is so interested in humans, and thinks so much of them.

Also, who is the red headed woman in "The End of Time Part 2" :

Noooooooo! Quite like your other theory though!