I must have missed that one. I was not aware that Sally Sparrow's humanity was ever in question. I think she would have made a fabulous companion though; she had all of the qualifications.

I would be so much happier today if River had turned out to be the kitchen sink.

Well it does fit in with the whole water theme...

Nah, she's the doctor's wife. She just spends most of her time at the kitchen sink.

<runs away fast>

Pfft, river is the spirit of the duckless pond from TEH in the same way Idris was the TARDIS. That's the real water link, can't you see it?

Yep, thanks for pointing it out!

Oh good, almost thought you didn't even watch the thing properly

Yes . Definitely . A poor quality one .

Coming late to this thread but riding in on Sh'boobie's side. Why does everybody get so upset at the idea that the doctor might have done something unethical in er . . . 'liquidating' ganger Amy's avatar?

First of all the two previous episodes had pretty much set up the idea that it was wrong to just assume the gangers felt nothing when they died - an idea argued strongly by the doctor. He made it clear that he considered the ganger doctor to be as human as himself. So it was pretty shocking when he summarily dispatched 'ganger' Amy.
I fully understand that the avatar was 'improved' technology and didn't have a separate consciousness, but surely that is the point. It was made completely clear in conversation in Ep 7 that Amy's consciousness - her mind and soul - had been present with Rory and the doctor on the Tardis while her body was with Madame K, so therefore it was AMY who looked out of the avatar's eyes, frightened and bewildered as her husband stepped away from her and her best friend soniced her. The she woke up abruptly in a nightmare situation which she didn't understand. OK, the doctor said they were coming to get her but otherwise I just don't think it was done kindly enough.

Well, go on - insult me all you like. I've been called worse than a troll . (What is a troll, anyway?)
Sh'boobie - I'm with you on this.
Last edited by The Wren : 07-06-2011 at 00:39

I don't think that the ganger Amy was as "real" a person as the other gangers were - they had after all been "rebooted" as human by the tsunami. The ganger Amy was basically just a piece of flesh that had Amy's soul "beamed" into her by the eye-patch woman's gang.

We know that "real" Amy knew exactly what had been going on aboard the TARDIS while she was being captive - the real humans were not aware what their gangers were up to, so it was a different situation.

The Dr didn't kill anybody - he simply broke the signal between Amy and a piece of animated flesh.

I think you will find that it is sh'boobie who was "disgusted", not us. Please note that my reaction to the accusation was "*shrug*".

What we were doing was saying that it was not quite the same as doing in a primitive ganger.

But, of course, I dont think we were really thinking there is much sincerity in that posters observations and statements. When you look at them as a whole.

My ignore list is updated .

I used to tell people who wanted money I was my twin brother and that I would be back later. Now I can tell them I am my own ganger.

No, no, I'm not going to insult you. I've not had time to read your post fully but you seem to agree with us, not Sh'boobie. They're arguing that it was a SEPARATE PERSON the Doctor killed, not just a housing for the real Amy.

For me, the humane element came from scaring the proverbial out of Amy and Rory and the pain of the body disintegrating (nerve endings etc). But it had to be done and I don't dispute that.

NO NO NO a thousand times no

the Dr says "shes been gone a while probably just before america"

So it was sometime between series, the slience had nothing to do with it but may have been more interested in amy as she wasnt quite right (IE a ganger) and were watching the child for what she was (detected time lord) AND they had a proto tardis.... were they trying to advance her seperate to the plot on deamons run by sheer coincidence

You do realise that he couldn't have saved her, don't you? The reason the gangers in the recent two parter were sentient and independant was due to an accident. That's why they didn't dissolve as soon as their originals woke up.

He had to do it, otherwise it would have happened possibly during an important moment, and it wouldn't have been as kind.

It's a lesser of two evils - had he let the ganger Amy carry on, it could have put them all in jeopardy, and would have been cruel.

Would that be preferable to you? Have the Doctor be cruel? That's not a brilliant message to kids.

The Doctor turned off the life support, nothing more. Tragic, certainly, but not murder, and not unethical.

Oh, I understand that - I was just trying to point out how it was necessary, to someone who refuses to see it as a vessel, in a way that they could relate to.

No, I know you understand. Was just trying to summarise the ethical debate!

River is Amy's daught-

DAMNIT!

Haha!

Oops...