I have only posted once so i ask long-time posters to be kind ok? i have a question to you all. Are the only stories that count as canon the TV stories? i ask simply because i have devoured all of the books and audiobooks, and get confused by some of the questions asked on these forums. an example of which was one that announced that "ALL of the doctors family died in the time war" yet Susan is still around according to the audiobooks, as his her son the doctors great grandson (may be wrong here because he is missing according to the last audiobook i listened to).

I think that god awful film counts with Paul Mcgann but thats it.

I agree, awful film, however i warmed to his doctor in the audiobooks, but not sure if that had something to do with my crush on sheridan smith

The simple answer is: you decide. There's no official, Star Trek-style canon in Doctor Who.

And things that were once true may not be true now because of the Time War, the rebooting of the universe, Faction Paradox meddling, and so many other similar events over the years.

There's enough wiggle room for everything to have been true, at some point, in some reality, so no real need to count things out.

Technically, TV & Paul McGann film count as canon. Everything else could be, but it's not 100%. Where the TV show contradicts the novels, audiobooks and comic books, it's generally assumed that the TV show is the one that's correct.

I havent listened to any of the audio books or read the other stories but for some reason I really dont think they count as canon. Its a shame the film does class as canon but because Paul Mcgann regenerated from Slyverster Mccoy he classes as canon.

There is no official position on canon. To say that only the TV show is canon is opinion, not fact-many of us consider the books and audios canon, and there's nothing to suggest that they aren't. The only two official statements the BBC have ev er made on the subject were to declare that the Adventure Games were canon, and (in 2003) to state that the Scream of the Shalka webcast was 'no longer' canon (which would tend to indicate that it previously was). Since the books were either published or licensed by the BBC and several of the audio stories have been broadcast by the BBC on radio, and since elements from them have been referenced on the TV show, as far as I'm concerned they're canon.

Also, to correct a common error: the Big Finish audios are not audiobooks. They are audioplays. An audiobook is just that-a book, being read out on audio. It is not technically correct to call a full cast radio drama an 'audiobook', as they've never been books in any form.

One word: Lungbarrow

What about it? Nothing in the current series directly contradicts Lungbarrow, if you actually read it.

There are however a few inconsistances where the two clash.

For example the book Human Nature being rewritten as a TV double partner meaning the same adventure happened to two different Doctors and Companions.

Let's be honest.

It doesn't really matter what has been said in the past nor where.

If the writers want to do something that is completely contrary to past canon law, they will go ahead and do it and, possibly, give a more or less believable and more or less convoluted excuse for doing so.

The current series has shown Time Lords as children which don't exist according to the book.

To put it simply, this is a very controversial area. The only things universially accepted as canon are the TV shows and the TV movie (and Torchwood and SJA of course!) - some people firmly believe that this is it - others firmly believe everything with a Doctor Who label counts. I think the easiest way to go is to create your own canon - choose which, if any, of the radio plays and books you like and go with those I personally count the 8th Doctor audios with Lucie Miller (because I love them) and the new series novels (eg: The Stone Rose, The Ressurection Casket - that series) but nothing else. Largely because I've never heard/read anything else!

It's a bit pointless to try and argue about canonicity with people because nearly everyone will have a different view. Just make up your own mind and stick to it - it's the easiest way

Oh, and your Susan question I think (I've not heard the plays but I've read about them) they were 8th Doctor plays, and so occurred before the Time War. So as far as I'm aware, Susan would be alive, along with the rest of the Time Lords

I'm sure a more knowledgable person can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that solves your problem?

I quite liked this answer Jenny, i must admit to being a fan of the audio books (and audio plays) a lot of the (2005 series onward) audiobooks are really good stories and flesh out the characters well, and can send you on a journey whereby because you know the characters and how they react onscreen, you enjoy the books all the more. The Stone Rose being a good example of what i mean. If you enjoy Dr Who then to be honest, unless you are very rigid (and lets be blunt without causing or meaning offence a lot of people in these formus are) you will probably enjoy any story featuring our hero as long as its well-written. A small point here being there are only just over 200 stories that have taken place onscreen over the 48 year timespan, thats only roughly 4-5 a year, so the addition of other stories for me are a necessary filler for periods such as the one we have now entered. By the way thanks for that info about the eighth doctor and the time war, i had not thought about your point about it beind pre-time war.

There is no concept of canon in Doctor Who. There is only continuity. And continuity definitely changes.

The book makes it quite clear that the Doctor at least was born naturally; he has a navel, which is why his contemporaries called him 'snail'. All the book really tells us is that as far as Leela knows, hereditary Time Lords don't reproduce normally. Since the original series itself makes it fairly clear that not all Gallifreyans are hereditary Time Lords, that isn't exactly conclusive of anything.

The book is actually not the same story as the TV version, and any similarities can be fairly easily explained away by saying that time has been rewritten, by the Time War or by the universal reboot (which would logically have been retroactive)..

'canon' is a load of nonsense obsessed over by fans who take the show way too seriously.

It is a fictional television show, the writers decide how storylines evolve, whether that contradicts previous stories matters not one jot.

My point was that accoring to the book Time Lords are 'born' as full grown adults but the series has shown The Master for example as child which contradicts this. Not it really matters as its only a TV show!

Overall, Lungbarrow still fits in with more television stories (and helps them fit together with each other) than it clashes with.

Lots of people do disregard it, of course, but then you're left without answers to questions like, how did the apparently teenage Susan name the Tardis if it was already a museum piece when the Doctor stole it?

The book shows that some Time Lords are born as adults and tells us that both Leela and the Doctor's insane cousins believe this is the case everywhere. It also indicates that the Doctor himself is proof that this isn't the case.

There really should be some kind of warning symbol which flashes up whenever anyone types the word 'canon', or just automatically locks any thread with the word in the title...

I always count the Big Finish plays as canon - or, at least, because Big Finish liaise so closely with BBC Wales, I don't think the TV show will ever contradict something in the audio plays (and vice versa).

I think the fact that the BBC themselves included the BF audio stories featuring Davros in the Davros DVD box set lends further weight to the assumption that they consider them official.

I agree with pretty much everyone else, as long as you can argue the case for your favourite audiobook/audioplay/novel whatever then it's canon.