I think deciding for yourself what is and isn't canon is probably the best way to go, it seems to be what the writers do. Personally, though, I'm inclined to see the universe of the TV series and the universe of the books, audioplays and comics as existing separately from each other. As far as I'm aware, there have never been any TV stories that have been sequels to stories from the other media, or any TV stories that have introduced or referred to important characters, settings or storylines from them. I mean, if you consider all that supposedly happened to Davros, when he turns up in The Stolen Earth he looks hardly any different from the way he did in Revelation of the Daleks. As for Lungbarrow, it's been stated in the TV series that Romana was a "time tot," we saw the Master as a child and he mentioned his father, and A Good Man Goes To War the Doctor said Time Lords became what they were due to billions of years of exposure to the energies of the Time Vortex. I think I know why this is - although Doctor Who doesn't have an official canon like Star Trek, I'm not sure if it's really permissible for them broadcast TV episodes which you then have to spend money on a book, CD or comic to fully understand and appreciate - I can't really imagine the announcer saying during the end credits, "If you would like to know what tonight's episode was actually all about, (book title xxx) is available now from all good bookshops, and some bad ones too. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the TV writers don't really have any opinion as to whether the novels, comic stories and audio plays are canon or not, I just don't think they really pay them any attention, and I know of one who seems to regard them as very different entities:



That's Neil Gaiman.

Had to smile reading this quote, but you are totally mistaken, i had never even read the forums until this week, and had no idea people felt so strongly about canon, i just think that if, like me, you love Dr Who, you will enjoy most of the non TV stories as a way of filling in the void between series, particularly the 17 year gap (i am deliberately ignoring the movie here as i realise that brings mucho argumento amongst fans) without the Audioplays, what could we all have done during the wilderness years?

What he said. I've never understood the idea that if something isn't 'mainstream' or is too obscure for the general public to be aware of, it can't be canon. By that logic, many of the now lost sixties episodes which were only ever transmitted once forty years ago would have to be considered non canon, since I doubt most of todays audience have ever heard of Galaxy 4 or The Smugglers! Public awareness of the material is irrelevant when discussing its validity.


Actually, that was originally revealed in the TV show. But who am I to argue with a deceased assassin from the Light Universe?


Well, there was always The Stranger...

That was one of the things that prompted me to leave the forum for awhile-it became very unpleasant. It seems to have become less confrontational now, in the main (though I notice there are still one or two who seem to insist on making everything personal).

Well...lets face it...there wasnt MUCH in terms of canonicity in the origional run ofwho...notably the timelord history and gallifreyan technology......cartmel tried his best to slow down the JNT randomiser machine but he still failed

I worship his divineshadow

Yeah, I'm still wondering how the second Doctor could have had a remote control for the TARDIS that the sixth was jealous of him for having in The Two Doctors, bearing in mind that the guy saying he'd always wanted one was the future self of the guy who already had one. Not one of Bob Holmes's better days...
Amen to that. Or should that be Yo Way Yo?

yo way yo
a-homme varai
yo way rah
jerhumme brunnen g
yo way rah
jerhumme brunnen g!!!


the dead do not like John Nathan turner

Strange. I thought they shared a common love of show tunes...

In my opinion, any book or audio which doesn't contradict anything on TV is canon, whilst anything live action and televised (Old Who, New Who, TV Movie, Torchwood, SJA and the K9 show) is automatically canon.

Ah, but what about the animated stories? They aren't live action, but Mr Dread from Dreamland turning up in SJA suggests they're canon! And K9 is controversial in that, while it doesn't contradict any established continuity, it isn't a BBC production. Not that I think it isn't canon, but if non BBC productions are allowable, then what about the independent video spinoffs of the 90s? Apparently, the producers of SJA were originally planning to include footage from one of them-Downtime-in an episode as a flashback...

I'm of the opinion that all original novels (ie not the novelisations of stories) and Big Finish Audios are canon, as well as all the TV shows, Movie, SJA, Torchwood etc. Not entirely convinced by comics however... Many inconsistencies can go down as "wibbley wobbly", "due to the time war..." or universe reset IMHO.

For those who lived through the gap between the movie and Ecclestone, the novels and the first run of Eighth Doctor BFAs we're all there was to go on - and I'm not giving up the adventures with Sam Jones and Chaley Pollard, they (well, most of them) were too damn good!

All that is needed is for something - novel, BFA or (preferably) film/TV show depicting the gap between the last BFA and Ecclestone... possibly an on-screen excuse for half-human, explanation of death worm etc. and many problems solved...

I personally think that books and audio plays should link in with the show - not so that you need to read/listen to them to understand the show, but to provide backstory, fill gaps between episodes and add more to the universe. Even the slightest hint of a much-loved novel or BFA in a televised episode brings a smile to my face. Lots of adventures are referenced in the show that haven't been televised - Jim the Fish, Space Florida etc. - these don't necessarily contribute to the plot (at least not yet) and if previous novels were referenced in this way it would make the point of reading them more worthwhile - and they'd probably sell more of them as a result. (rant over...)

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I run a pub quiz and asked who played the 8th Doctor. One team nearly came to blows because they claimed that Paul Mcganns Doctor was not an offical Doctor and that Chris Ecclestone was the 8th Doctor ! Incidently if we are to take books etc as canon do the annuals count as well ?

Well, the post 2005 annuals are apparently intended to fit into continuity, though where that leaves Sally Sparrow is anyone's guess.

Interesting point, but they were seen by 10-12 million people, whereas the books and radio plays have a (guessed) audience of tens of thousands.

I still don't think that makes any difference. The BBC officially removing Scream of the Shalka from canon, the only time they've ever made a definitive statement on the subject, clearly indicates that Shalka was previously considered canon, and I doubt the webcast had half the audience of the books or BBC7.

wow! didnt realise people feel so strongly about this subject, i just love any story involving our hero and devour everything that relates to the show

[QUOTE think the fact that the BBC themselves included the BF audio stories featuring Davros in the Davros DVD box set lends further weight to the assumption that they consider them official][/quote]

The BBC consider canon anything that makes them money therefore in the real world:

canon = profit

Ok slightly sideways to the topic of this thread but hopefully not too far off. I have only ever watched the TV show (since 1963 except when I wasn't allowed to because it gave my little brother the willies, and during a number of years when we didn't have a tv at all -I missed Peter Davison and Colin Baker and am working on catching up)
Anyway... I was thinking about listening to some of the Big Finish things as people seem to like them so much, so I wonder if anyone could point me to some sort of chronology so I can work out where to start with them? Or recommend a starting point?

The BF stories feature four different Doctors and jump around a lot in terms of when they're set, the exception being the eighth Doctor stories which do have a set chronology. If you want the eighth Doctor, it's best to start with Storm Warning, as that comes first. As far as the others go, just jump in wherever you like!

Some stories I'd particularly recommend:

Night Thoughts (McCoy)
The Chimes of Midnight (McGann)
The Pirates (Colin Baker)
The Spectre of Lanyon Moor (Colin Baker, Nicholas Courtney)
Master (McCoy)
Spare Parts (Davison)
Time of the Daleks (McGann)

Thanks for that

It could be more the fact that they didn't necassarily consider it as 'canon' as such - just they had to make sure it was taken out as it would directly contradict the reboot.

And that's one of two canonicity declarations they've made ting! I'm surprised you forgot the one about the Adventure Games being canon...

OK, it's the only one relating to an actual story, how's that? I am slightly baffled by the idea that something like a game, weith no fixed narrative, can be canon...

but thats the thing all Games have a fixed narrative of sorts,yes you have to do certain things to progress further,but the storyline very rarely changes

The Adventure games are linearly narrative. There is only one outcome - you're thinking of free-roaming games (there aren't any that involve the Doctor just yet, but there will be a MMO version of the Whoniverse soon, by all accounts).

With the Adventure games, you can only progress in the story if you get things right, and it follows a strict narrative pattern, with the same outcome. It's basically sold as an interactive episode.