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The Moff says no to the Ganger theory?
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rostaria
07-06-2011
(?)
In reply to someone suggesting that the doctor who is killed is a ganger, Steven says on twitter:
"How would a flesh Doctor fool River Song? She scanned him."
"Plus, if River found out there was a way of making extra Doctors, she'd be too busy making plans...""
GangerOfAGanger
07-06-2011
I'm happy about this to be honest. Thought the ganger theory would be a bit of a weak plot if it happened
Suddenly Psycho
07-06-2011
The Moff has repeatedly asserted that the Doctor is dead, stone-cold, no-way around it.

Obviously we all know that Moffat lies, but I honestly think that the Doctor is dead, and I'm trusting that Moffat brings him back in a way that literally leaves me
Sh'boobie
07-06-2011
She scanned him to see if he was alive. Not to see if he was a Ganger.

Please keep in mind... this is the same Steven Moffat who claimed that River Song was definitely NOT Amy Ponds daughter.

He's like iMDB in human form. Until it happens on screen - He is NOT to be trusted.
DocBlue
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Sh'boobie:
“She scanned him to see if he was alive. Not to see if he was a Ganger.

Please keep in mind... this is the same Steven Moffat who claimed that River Song was definitely NOT Amy Ponds daughter.

He's like iMDB in human form. Until it happens on screen - He is NOT to be trusted.”

I think there are many better reasons that the theory doesn't hold up than the one he has mentioned so i'll certainly trust him on this one anyway
Suddenly Psycho
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Sh'boobie:
“Please keep in mind... this is the same Steven Moffat who claimed that River Song was definitely NOT Amy Ponds daughter.”

Did he? It wouldn't surprise me if he had lied about it tbh, but I can't recall this. And I certainly think there'd be a bit a of a hoo-ha if he had said this!
MinkytheDog
07-06-2011
Two things...

He doesn't say The Dr is not a Fleshie - he turned it around and asked how such a thing could fool River's scan. It's an old trick used to avoid answering a question without beng seen to. Any number of reasons why - not least being that River didn't need to be fooled because she already knew.

Second - let's say that he really is saying that the Doctor wasn't a Fleshie for the reason he gives. That means that Flesh copies can be detected by a scan - the first time that has been directly stated as a matter of fact. That could point to certain other things - like how the Doctor knew Amy was a fleshie and when he spotted it.
Salford_Who
07-06-2011
Isn't it obvious. The doctor is dead, but the doctor from the dead Doctor's future comes back in time to change the weapon that kills him into a stun gun.
Helbore
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Salford_Who:
“Isn't it obvious. The doctor is dead, but the doctor from the dead Doctor's future comes back in time to change the weapon that kills him into a stun gun.”

That means Amy, Rory and River burnt a live, sleeping Doctor on that boat

Yikes!
Bob_1971
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Sh'boobie:
“She scanned him to see if he was alive. Not to see if he was a Ganger.

Please keep in mind... this is the same Steven Moffat who claimed that River Song was definitely NOT Amy Ponds daughter.

He's like iMDB in human form. Until it happens on screen - He is NOT to be trusted.”

Indeed, Moffat lies. Badly.
dylanpartyon
07-06-2011
I think that the real doctor does die, but its Doctor Goo, who then stabalises (or whatever its called in the Tardis), who continues on in future series
TheSilentFez
07-06-2011
Finally! One of the many Ganger theories refuted!
Ethel_Fred
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by Helbore:
“That means Amy, Rory and River burnt a live, sleeping Doctor on that boat ”

Would he regenerate?

Perhaps we need to ask why would the Doctor want to appear to be permanently dead?
DocBlue
07-06-2011
no he wouldn't!!!
littlebird22
07-06-2011
Wouldn't he have turned to white gloop if he was a ganger? And would a ganger be able to regenerate?
Scaramouche
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by dylanpartyon:
“I think that the real doctor does die, but its Doctor Goo, who then stabilises (or whatever its called in the Tardis), who continues on in future series ”

Interesting. They laboured the point that the flesh Doctor and the real one were indistinguishable, even to loved ones, in the Rebel Flesh. Also the gangers becoming real humans once stabilised was a big focus at the end. Perhaps his ganger would become a real Time Lord?

He got quite upset about the way Amy reacted to what she thought was his ganger and his real ganger proved to be more than his equal when it came to self sacrifice.

The changing of shoes to confuse her had no apparent reason to it (that I can think of) other than to test her.
sionnaigh
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by rostaria:
“(?)
In reply to someone suggesting that the doctor who is killed is a ganger, Steven says on twitter:
"How would a flesh Doctor fool River Song? She scanned him."
"Plus, if River found out there was a way of making extra Doctors, she'd be too busy making plans...""”

To me that's a sort of 'non denial, denial'. How would a flesh Doctor fool River Song? I don't know oh mighty Moff (all bow down) - perhaps we'll find out .

River Song KNOWS about Gangers - obviously considering the episode we've all just seen. Didn't she mention about two Doctors 'that's a whole different birthday'? Perhaps she's already making those plans in readiness for a 'different birthday' .
MinkytheDog
07-06-2011
Originally Posted by littlebird22:
“Wouldn't he have turned to white gloop if he was a ganger? And would a ganger be able to regenerate?”

We saw a fleshie die - shot as opposed to being sonic'd - and he just died - whole and unmelted (Buzzer - the "He had a heart!" scene in Rebel flesh)
jonsidnel
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by MinkytheDog:
“Two things...
Second - let's say that he really is saying that the Doctor wasn't a Fleshie for the reason he gives. That means that Flesh copies can be detected by a scan - the first time that has been directly stated as a matter of fact. That could point to certain other things - like how the Doctor knew Amy was a fleshie and when he spotted it.”

I may be remembering incorrectly, but didn't the Dr say in TAP that gangers can be detected by sonic scanning? Something about giving off a slightly different signature. They were in the room they'd taken refuge in and used to communicate with the mainland.

I'd say you're right that this is how the Dr knew that Amy in the Tardis wasn't the real Amy. After being fooled twice, I'd imagine he'll be adding this to the standard checks he does when scanning
Tyjet
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by MinkytheDog:
“We saw a fleshie die - shot as opposed to being sonic'd - and he just died - whole and unmelted (Buzzer - the "He had a heart!" scene in Rebel flesh)”

He was independant by that point though. He wasn't just Buzzer controlling an empty shell.
Talma
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by Tyjet:
“He was independant by that point though. He wasn't just Buzzer controlling an empty shell.”

But the ganger Doctor was created after him, in the middle of the storm, so that would apply to him too. If he was the future Doctor (or not) River was very keen to destroy his body to avoid DNA being taken.
smiddlehurst
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by Scaramouche:
“Interesting. They laboured the point that the flesh Doctor and the real one were indistinguishable, even to loved ones, in the Rebel Flesh. Also the gangers becoming real humans once stabilised was a big focus at the end. Perhaps his ganger would become a real Time Lord?

He got quite upset about the way Amy reacted to what she thought was his ganger and his real ganger proved to be more than his equal when it came to self sacrifice.

The changing of shoes to confuse her had no apparent reason to it (that I can think of) other than to test her.”

To be fair, that was at least partialy for the audience to make it clear why Ganger!Amy wasn't detected by Rory...

As for the death of the Doctor stuff... who knows. Obviously Moffat isn't the most reliable source, in fact that's kind of his job as show runner to keep people guessing, but I say just sit back and enjoy the ride.
sebbie3000
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by Sh'boobie:
“She scanned him to see if he was alive. Not to see if he was a Ganger.

Please keep in mind... this is the same Steven Moffat who claimed that River Song was definitely NOT Amy Ponds daughter.

He's like iMDB in human form. Until it happens on screen - He is NOT to be trusted.”

She's not Amy Pond's daughter.

She's Amy Williams' daughter...
sebbie3000
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by Helbore:
“That means Amy, Rory and River burnt a live, sleeping Doctor on that boat

Yikes!”

I think Salford was being funny! Salford wasn't too keen on the causal-looping used buy the Doctor to get out of the Pandorica at the end of last series...

Matchu
08-06-2011
Originally Posted by Talma:
“But the ganger Doctor was created after him, in the middle of the storm, so that would apply to him too. If he was the future Doctor (or not) River was very keen to destroy his body to avoid DNA being taken.”

The storm gave them sentience, independent thought. It was the Tardis at the end of the episode that gave them more than just Flesh. As Ganger Doctor hadn't been in there, it makes sense that he melted. However, if a Ganger Doctor can be put in the Tardis, presumably he'd die in a less goopy way on the beach (if that one is a Ganger).
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