[Aida]

Originally Posted by peaches41

I wonder what was in that glass, specifically?

Come now, peaches - they're never going to make that information public!


Thanks for the kind words and sympathy about my mother, amici - she doesn't live with me, thank God, but I usually bring her to my house Sundays and Wednesdays.

Originally Posted by Angela Channing

Glad you liked my list,Mr.Channing told me how much I reminded him of Dame Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey,I reminded him that she was a Dowager/Titled Widow

Howling with laughter - you are a bit of a torment, Dame A!

[porshacat]

[quote=Aida;50661963]
I know some of this on this thread don't like 'Chas' - I do - she gets on my nerves sometimes, but so did 'Viv'' and I her terribly - anyway, 'Chas' has every right to go ballistic when she finds out what's being going on and how her son has been used, and I hope she does - I bliddy would![/code]



I'm sorry but I really don't think that she has every right, some right perhaps.
She didn't bring Aaron up, when he did turn up she didn't exactly welcome him with open arms. Eventually they got together as a proper family unit with Paddy, a man that both she and Aaron could trust, so she dropped her knickers for Carl, a man Aaron already hated and that clearly couldn't be trusted.
Every time she interferes and sticks her beak into Aarons business, it makes my blood boil.

[DuchessKitty]

Originally Posted by Aida

On rewatching, and in a calmer frame of mind today, (had a very bad day with my mother who suffers from dementia)

I'm sorry to hear about your mother Aida. I was only little when my Grandad developed dementia and I don't remember much of it except the effect it had on my Mum. I hope you've got lots of support around you. x

Last night's ED was better than Tuesday's. I liked the scene with Cain and Aaron. It made me cross though that Aaron never thought to discuss this all with his uncle before; especially as he took the fall when Alice died.

Ooh I forgot to say, we've a new home in part 3!

[Angela Channing]

Originally Posted by Aida

Howling with laughter - you are a bit of a torment, Dame A!

I try my best

Still have my eye on Home Farm!

I can see myself going to Church with Edna of a Sunday & Holy Day.

David could be my Head Butler .

[Aida]

[quote=porshacat;50669551]

Originally Posted by Aida

I know some of this on this thread don't like 'Chas' - I do - she gets on my nerves sometimes, but so did 'Viv'' and I her terribly - anyway, 'Chas' has every right to go ballistic when she finds out what's being going on and how her son has been used, and I hope she does - I bliddy would![/code]



I'm sorry but I really don't think that she has every right, some right perhaps.
She didn't bring Aaron up, when he did turn up she didn't exactly welcome him with open arms. Eventually they got together as a proper family unit with Paddy, a man that both she and Aaron could trust, so she dropped her knickers for Carl, a man Aaron already hated and that clearly couldn't be trusted.
Every time she interferes and sticks her beak into Aarons business, it makes my blood boil.

We'll have to agree to differ on this one, Porsha - I have no children of my own, but I love my nephew dearly even though I didn't bring him up - he's the son of my heart and I know I'd be incandescent with rage if anyone had subjected him to such manipulation and emotional blackmail that he ended up, barely out of his teens, committing murder under the delusion that he was doing the right thing.

Also, Chas is certainly to blame for having one stupid, drunken fling with Carl which she was instantly ashamed of and did her level best to hush up to preserve her relationship with Paddy - it was Carl who betrayed her for his own selfish reasons.

[desperate house]

Oooh part three now. We are popular.

Well, after all my plans for a knees up, I missed the party, Mr House was rushed into hospital with pneumonia so we had our own medical drama. Sounds like it was the same as Dame Angela's chest infection (hmm). You haven't been round Essex way lately have you, your most wonderful Dameness? Not been drinking out of wet glasses again eh? Glad to hear you are well recovered now, and back with us. Mr House is still residing in the local infirmary, may be home next week.

Still, nil desperandum as they say, I have V+ all the episode this week, and I shall watch them soon. Reading through your posts, it seems to have been a bit of an anticlimax, but unfortunately when they leak the outcome of storylines all over the place, there is no surprise and nothing to look forward too.

[tinkie]

Sorry to hear about Mr House, I hope he is better soon, and hope Dame Angela's chest infection has cleared up, I am also behind on catching up, but should be up to speed Sat

[desperate house]

Thank you Tinkie, I shall catch up at the weekend too.

Dessi

[Aida]

So sorry to hear about Mr. House - hope they are looking after him properly and that he's feeling much better very soon! What a worry for you and him!

Good episodes tonight!

Paddy, having been given the chance to act, seems to now be refusing to do anything else - I was very impressed by his outburst of fury, but, of course, I would be because I don't belong to the school of thought that the murderers were justified in what they did because 'It was what Jackson wanted!'

In that vein, I was also very pleased that Chas spoke her mind, as did Jackson's father - the police seemed quite short on sympathy too, but all that realism was made up by the attitude of (almost all of) the rest of the village, particularly Bob who was so sweetly sympathetic and supportive, I'm sure if they'd asked him to mix up and administer the fatal draught, he'd have been only too delighted to oblige.

Diane, whom I used to actually like, has morphed into a kind of sit-com character - the sort of running-joke-person who pops up in every episode and only has a couple of lines during which she advises whichever character she's interacting with to do the totally wrong thing - i.e. advising Chas to 'go for it' with Nikhil even though she wasn't keen, sending Scouseferatu through to the back room to force himself on Vacuous Vic, implying that 'anyone would have done the same' as dear Hazel and Aaron if that's what Jackson wanted, as if he'd requested a new DVD.

Dear me, even in death the manipulative gnome still has his supporters who see him as some kind of supreme ruler - and still nobody, not even the rozzers, has asked which professional agencies they contacted to assess his mental state when he began to demand to be 'assisted' to take his life!

I honestly thought that it was one of the CPS guidelines that there had to be evidence of the steps which were taken to dissuade Jackson from pursuing this course - I must have been wrong!

I'll be alone in this, but I actually felt sorry for Chas - she's never been, and will never be, the world's best mother, but she's tried very hard (even before Aaron had the head transplant) and it's time to cut her losses and walk away since it's more than obvious that the sullen young boor will latch on to anyone apart from her.

Some light relief provided by Princess Toadstool going around dressed as a cheerleader for some unknown reason of her own, and the old soak Borella seizing the opportunity to take young Adam home - thank goodness Ma Boreton turned up when she did to sear her to the bone with the evil eye! Two more minutes and Borella'd have been offering to tuck him up in bed and then moving in to offer him a comfort shag - it's a pity nobody was around to head Casanova King off and save Chas!

Also enjoyed Jimmy remembering that his sanctimonious brother still heads the list of unpunished Emmerdale murderers - and lastly, the great Dim David and Liela 'proposal' pantomime to bring a spark of lightness and happiness to all those who haven't read the spoilers yet - a cloyingly sweet scene only marred by the fell Orangina skulking around in the background like the Evil Fairy at Sleeping Beauty's christening!

[sheepiefarm]

Originally Posted by Aida

I'll be alone in this, but I actually felt sorry for Chas - she's never been, and will never be, the world's best mother, but she's tried very hard (even before Aaron had the head transplant) and it's time to cut her losses and walk away since it's more than obvious that the sullen young boor will latch on to anyone apart from her.

Nope - you're not alone Aida.

I'm a big supporter of Chas - although I think the writing for her can be very hit & miss

I thought they wrote her very well tonight - we didn't get the usual gobby mouthing off - yeah she did have sporadic outbursts - and the one at Betty & Val gossiping in the pub was well deserved
However, she is feeling hurt & vulnerable (even if part of that does come from her feeling bad for herself about her inability to be a good mother to Aaron). Of course, having the dastardly Carl sidle up to her at her weakest moment was a neat little twist from the writers.


I was initially a supporter of Paddy & Rhona - but dearie me - that storyline has really dragged Paddy into the gutter - and when we get to see him like he was tonight - it only emphasises it even more.

Jerry's appearance lacked any real clout - I hope we see more from him regarding his questioning of why this has all happened.

Adam & Moira are very believable as a mother & son combo - but Ella just confuses me as a character - I'm really struggling to find any human truth to her at the moment.

I actually like seeing Bob being discreet but caring - in the same way that this storyline has divided opinion on the forums - i'm glad to see that being reflected in the characters too.

Another good un from Emmy tonight.

[Angela Channing]

Originally Posted by desperate house

Oooh part three now. We are popular.

Well, after all my plans for a knees up, I missed the party, Mr House was rushed into hospital with pneumonia so we had our own medical drama. Sounds like it was the same as Dame Angela's chest infection (hmm). You haven't been round Essex way lately have you, your most wonderful Dameness? Not been drinking out of wet glasses again eh? Glad to hear you are well recovered now, and back with us. Mr House is still residing in the local infirmary, may be home next week.

Oh I do hope Mr House has recovered,I got an awful dose,but I believe it had to do with our sudden changes in temperatures.I'm still on strong antibiotics which keep me knocked out for hours.So no wine,sherry or buckfast (which the local nuns told me to drink )

We were in Jaywick last August to visit a spinster aunt of Mr Channing's who wants to live out her last years by Our Lady of the Sea.


I hope Mr House is home soon !

[Angela Channing]

Originally Posted by Aida

We'll have to agree to differ on this one, Porsha - I have no children of my own, but I love my nephew dearly even though I didn't bring him up - he's the son of my heart and I know I'd be incandescent with rage if anyone had subjected him to such manipulation and emotional blackmail that he ended up, barely out of his teens, committing murder under the delusion that he was doing the right thing.

We have no children of our own either Aida,I was known as the 'barren baroness' for many years,I laugh at it now but back then it was so cruel . We did have Mr Channing's nephew stay with us for many years,he was like our adopted grandson .He has since come out as they do now these days & he looks at us as his 'grandparents'.Last week he cheered me up by playing me Lady Gaga from his ipod (I didn't know what he was asking me to listen to) .He told me 'Don't be a drag be a queen' & said 'Listen' (I thought it had to do with Her Majesty the Queen )

Had I known it was that debauched shameless hussy I'd have flung it out the window

[Chrissy 2005]

Just caught up, thought the death was rather meh if I'm honest. I thought the acting was all very good but it just felt like they were trying to hard. The rest of the episodes since have been fantastic though. When you starting bringing in characters like Cain, Chas, Diane, Carl etc, characters that you actually care about and see their reactions and opinions it makes it feel real.

I really love Chas but Paddy really, really pissed me off outside the police station having a go at Hazel. For godsake the woman's son had just died and she's been put in a cell all afternoon and he thinks the best thing to do is to attack her in the street. His bald head is just horrible too to look at. Also what has become of Betty? I just didn't find that very realistic at all, she's always been insensitive but that was OTT.

Cain came alive in that scene with Aaron. "No, just human". Danny Miller delivered that line perfectly. I know Danny's not as good as he thinks he is, but their is talent under it all, under all that tear stick, under all that Jackson, under all that attitude, he can actually pull out a decent performance at times and that scene with Cain was just electric.

Rhona's really annoying. I love Carl and Chas as a couple so I loved tonights closing with a kiss. David and Leyla are such a fantastic couple and that moved me more than any Jackson/Aaron stuff.

My final words have to go to Adam Thomas who I thought was fantastic. He really showed Danny Miller up in those scenes after Jackson's death in the field. He was fantastic and then that scene tonight with Moira and Adam was just electric. They two really make the Barton family.

Overall fairly decent stuff. I loved Jimmy remembering that Carl killed Tom as well. Nice little touch.

[mr. mustard]

I thought both episodes were manipulative crap. Littered with the terrible overacting of Lucy Pargeter, they reeked of the sensationalism that's become the Emmerdale trademark. The only mature head around is Cain, but his performance was ruined by the constant gurning that afflicts him, as it does Chas. Her being comforted by Carl, who she so recently completely despised and tried to take for every penny was ridiculous. But we know that continuity is a last resort for these writers. Ridiculous too was Paddy's angry outburst. For weeks he's been nothing but a useless dithering blancmange when dealing with Rhona & Moron - now suddenly the red mist descends and he goes berserk Sorry, I don't buy it.

Elsewhere it was depressing to see Dim David & Pollard return to the shouty panto style of old. The engagement scene was mush of the worst order and puke-inducingly bad.

The only reminder of the Emmy of old that I loved was the brief scene with Betty & Val, perfectly portraying two vultures picking over the scraps:

Betty: 'Soom people would give their right arm for woon of those mobility thingies.'
Val: 'Well there's woon oop fer grabs now.'

A bit of gallows humour was most welcome and it really pleased me when it annoyed the loudmouth Chas

But apart from that I found the whole lot awful. Two weeks for the show to improve, then I'm off. Some may be able to accept how the characters have been changed but I can't. The whole village is suffering from collective madness.

[Angela Channing]

Originally Posted by mr. mustard

I thought both episodes were manipulative crap. Littered with the terrible overacting of Lucy Pargeter, they reeked of the sensationalism that's become the Emmerdale trademark. The only mature head around is Cain, but his performance was ruined by the constant gurning that afflicts him, as it does Chas. Her being comforted by Carl, who she so recently completely despised and tried to take for every penny was ridiculous. But we know that continuity is a last resort for these writers. Ridiculous too was Paddy's angry outburst. For weeks he's been nothing but a useless dithering blancmange when dealing with Rhona & Moron - now suddenly the red mist descends and he goes berserk Sorry, I don't buy it.

Elsewhere it was depressing to see Dim David & Pollard return to the shouty panto style of old. The engagement scene was mush of the worst order and puke-inducingly bad.

The only reminder of the Emmy of old that I loved was the brief scene with Betty & Val, perfectly portraying two vultures picking over the scraps:

Betty: 'Soom people would give their right arm for woon of those mobility thingies.'
Val: 'Well there's woon oop fer grabs now.'

A bit of gallows humour was most welcome and it really pleased me when it annoyed the loudmouth Chas

But apart from that I found the whole lot awful. Two weeks for the show to improve, then I'm off. Some may be able to accept how the characters have been changed but I can't. The whole village is suffering from collective madness.

I have yet to watch last nights episodes,but it doesn't sound good

[mr. mustard]

Originally Posted by Angela Channing

I have yet to watch last nights episodes,but it doesn't sound good

You never know Angela, you might like it. Others found a slight improvement but I thought it was dreadful. I've never seen such bad writing before and it's wrecking character after character.

[Aida]

Originally Posted by Angela Channing

We have no children of our own either Aida,I was known as the 'barren baroness' for many years,I laugh at it now but back then it was so cruel . We did have Mr Channing's nephew stay with us for many years,he was like our adopted grandson .He has since come out as they do now these days & he looks at us as his 'grandparents'.Last week he cheered me up by playing me Lady Gaga from his ipod (I didn't know what he was asking me to listen to) .He told me 'Don't be a drag be a queen' & said 'Listen' (I thought it had to do with Her Majesty the Queen )

Had I known it was that debauched shameless hussy I'd have flung it out the window

My relatives stopped teasingly asking me when we were going to start a family after about five years passed and still no bambino - all except my Great-Aunt Carlotta who loudly demanded, at a family gathering, "Is it your fault or his?"
It seemed a bit extreme to headbutt an 87-year old in front of so many witnesses so I just flounced off into the kitchen (in floods of tears) and left my red-headed, fiery sister to tear the old stoat a new @rsehole. My childlessness was never mentioned again!

Bib : -Laughing - quite - I'm not overly fond of Lady Gargoyle either - but speaking of Her Majesty - Happy Birthday, Ma'am!

Originally Posted by Chrissy 2005

Just caught up, thought the death was rather meh if I'm honest. I thought the acting was all very good but it just felt like they were trying to hard. The rest of the episodes since have been fantastic though. When you starting bringing in characters like Cain, Chas, Diane, Carl etc, characters that you actually care about and see their reactions and opinions it makes it feel real.

I really love Chas but Paddy really, really pissed me off outside the police station having a go at Hazel. For godsake the woman's son had just died and she's been put in a cell all afternoon and he thinks the best thing to do is to attack her in the street. His bald head is just horrible too to look at. Also what has become of Betty? I just didn't find that very realistic at all, she's always been insensitive but that was OTT.

Cain came alive in that scene with Aaron. "No, just human". Danny Miller delivered that line perfectly. I know Danny's not as good as he thinks he is, but their is talent under it all, under all that tear stick, under all that Jackson, under all that attitude, he can actually pull out a decent performance at times and that scene with Cain was just electric.

Rhona's really annoying. I love Carl and Chas as a couple so I loved tonights closing with a kiss. David and Leyla are such a fantastic couple and that moved me more than any Jackson/Aaron stuff.

My final words have to go to Adam Thomas who I thought was fantastic. He really showed Danny Miller up in those scenes after Jackson's death in the field. He was fantastic and then that scene tonight with Moira and Adam was just electric. They two really make the Barton family.

Overall fairly decent stuff. I loved Jimmy remembering that Carl killed Tom as well. Nice little touch.

Hi and welcome to the thread, Chrissy - excellent post!

Originally Posted by mr. mustard

I thought both episodes were manipulative crap. Littered with the terrible overacting of Lucy Pargeter, they reeked of the sensationalism that's become the Emmerdale trademark. The only mature head around is Cain, but his performance was ruined by the constant gurning that afflicts him, as it does Chas. Her being comforted by Carl, who she so recently completely despised and tried to take for every penny was ridiculous. But we know that continuity is a last resort for these writers. Ridiculous too was Paddy's angry outburst. For weeks he's been nothing but a useless dithering blancmange when dealing with Rhona & Moron - now suddenly the red mist descends and he goes berserk Sorry, I don't buy it.

Elsewhere it was depressing to see Dim David & Pollard return to the shouty panto style of old. The engagement scene was mush of the worst order and puke-inducingly bad.

The only reminder of the Emmy of old that I loved was the brief scene with Betty & Val, perfectly portraying two vultures picking over the scraps:

Betty: 'Soom people would give their right arm for woon of those mobility thingies.'
Val: 'Well there's woon oop fer grabs now.'

A bit of gallows humour was most welcome and it really pleased me when it annoyed the loudmouth Chas

But apart from that I found the whole lot awful. Two weeks for the show to improve, then I'm off. Some may be able to accept how the characters have been changed but I can't. The whole village is suffering from collective madness.

There, there, Musty my love - you know you hate a lot of emotional shouting - and you always have a bit of a cadenza when it's Chas doing it!

I'm not saying her reactions weren't a bit overdone, but I didn't think they seemed unreal - to me, she looked positively distraught , and throughout both episodes seemed to be locked in a nightmare she couldn't wake up from. I just wish I could believe that Carl's actions stemmed from the realisation that whatever she'd done, he'd always love her and couldn't stop himself from comforting her - perhaps that's why Jimmy 'remembered' and gave us that timely reminder that Carl killed his father for love of Chas.

Bib :- I'm always intrigued by the way we all have differing perceptions of the same incidents - I agree that Paddy's been infuriatingly ineffective during the Rhona and Marlon 'coo-over-the-baby' fest - but there have been signs throughout that saga that his temper was simmering.

Aaron's plight seemed to serve as the fuse which caused it to ignite and I can't find it in myself to disagree with anything he said to Hazel - she might be an utter fool, but she's the bliddy adult and should have had, at least, a modicum of commonsense, Aaron's just a kid who, despite his claims that he only does what he wants to do, is, in truth, as malleable as plasticine.

Jerry's rage also seemed justified to me - he's going to prove a powerful witness for the prosecution! For example, Joe the carer was dismissed after being told that Jackson's father wanted to take a more active role in his care - a lie which was repeated to the social worker who called to follow up the dismissal and who will have automatically logged the time and date of her visit. If a video-diary record planning death exists before this date, it could be made to look as if the murder was already being planned and the Quirke was deliberately lying to prevent anyone who could help Jackson having access to him.

As for Betty and Val - people are like that - I once walked in to a ward 'quiet room' on a group of relatives last seen only minutes before weeping and wailing like banshees around the bedside of their deceased mother, all employed in sorting through her belongings for her jewellery and purse, and searching their pockets and purses for receipts for the new-ish dressing-gown and slippers they'd bought her!

[lotty27]

Originally Posted by mr. mustard

You never know Angela, you might like it. Others found a slight improvement but I thought it was dreadful. I've never seen such bad writing before and it's wrecking character after character.

I agree with you re Paddy musty. He was so calm in Wednesday's episode, even shutting up Chas when she was about to go off on one but last night was shouting the odds at Hazel? After his calm and reasonable behaviour in what I presume was supposed to be just a few hours earlier? Very strange about turn.

Maybe we're supposed to believe that he had time to brood about the situation that Hazel had 'allowed' Aaron to become embroiled in so the anger had built up? Understandable in his role as honourable father but totally spoiled by the fact that he wasn't SEEN starting looking irritable or angry when he was waiting with Chas was he? More worried. And I don't recall anything being said by Paddy while they were waiting that would make him turn on Hazel like that. Chas yes, plenty to say as usual but Paddy? Not if I recall correctly (but you know what my memory's like ) There was no build up to me, the explosion literally came out of nowhere!

But IMO they wanted to put the alternative view, the view that many viewers might be thinking. They didn't want to put such important lines in the hands of the mouthy and screechy Chas as it might go over people's heads as we're so used to hearing her kick off. So it had to be a character who is usually calm and understanding. Bingo! Let it be Paddy. Who better than Aaron's surrogate dad? EVERYONE will sit up and take notice if HE goes off on one with the newly bereaved mother. A lot of what he said was right and made sense but it made him look like a bully and kicking someone when they were already down - not really 'Paddy' traits are they?

Oh well. However, can't say I didn't enjoy that scene because I did But I agree, it there were glaring inconsistencies again.

And I LOVED Val and Betty talking about Jackson's wheelchair! There are people like that everywhere, gossips who love nothing better to get their teeth into a new, juicy bit of scandal. And if they can throw a bit black humour in - all the better!

[lotty27]

Originally Posted by Aida

My relatives stopped teasingly asking me when we were going to start a family after about five years passed and still no bambino - all except my Great-Aunt Carlotta who loudly demanded, at a family gathering, "Is it your fault or his?"
It seemed a bit extreme to headbutt an 87-year old in front of so many witnesses so I just flounced off into the kitchen (in floods of tears) and left my red-headed, fiery sister to tear the old stoat a new @rsehole. My childlessness was never mentioned again!

Bib : -Laughing - quite - I'm not overly fond of Lady Gargoyle either - but speaking of Her Majesty - Happy Birthday, Ma'am!


Hi and welcome to the thread, Chrissy - excellent post!



There, there, Musty my love - you know you hate a lot of emotional shouting - and you always have a bit of a cadenza when it's Chas doing it!

I'm not saying her reactions weren't a bit overdone, but I didn't think they seemed unreal - to me, she looked positively distraught , and throughout both episodes seemed to be locked in a nightmare she couldn't wake up from. I just wish I could believe that Carl's actions stemmed from the realisation that whatever she'd done, he'd always love her and couldn't stop himself from comforting her - perhaps that's why Jimmy 'remembered' and gave us that timely reminder that Carl killed his father for love of Chas.

Bib :- I'm always intrigued by the way we all have differing perceptions of the same incidents - I agree that Paddy's been infuriatingly ineffective during the Rhona and Marlon 'coo-over-the-baby' fest - but there have been signs throughout that saga that his temper was simmering.

Aaron's plight seemed to serve as the fuse which caused it to ignite and I can't find it in myself to disagree with anything he said to Hazel - she might be an utter fool, but she's the bliddy adult and should have had, at least, a modicum of commonsense, Aaron's just a kid who, despite his claims that he only does what he wants to do, is, in truth, as malleable as plasticine.

Jerry's rage also seemed justified to me - he's going to prove a powerful witness for the prosecution! For example, Joe the carer was dismissed after being told that Jackson's father wanted to take a more active role in his care - a lie which was repeated to the social worker who called to follow up the dismissal and who will have automatically logged the time and date of her visit. If a video-diary record planning death exists before this date, it could be made to look as if the murder was already being planned and the Quirke was deliberately lying to prevent anyone who could help Jackson having access to him.

As for Betty and Val - people are like that - I once walked in to a ward 'quiet room' on a group of relatives last seen only minutes before weeping and wailing like banshees around the bedside of their deceased mother, all employed in sorting through her belongings for her jewellery and purse, and searching their pockets and purses for receipts for the new-ish dressing-gown and slippers they'd bought her!

BIB: Oooh, that makes perfect sense now! All those chats with Chas, feeling like a spare part in his own home etc etc etc. Maybe poor Hazel was the one who he took all his last few weeks of frustration and anger on? Not saying he doesn't care about Aaron, that would be a ridiculous thing to say, but I think you're right. There was more to it than that.

My hubby is a lot like Paddy (not physically!), totally calm 99.9% of the time - but when he blows, my God, he blows! Thankfully it's a rare occurance!





And you did make me laugh out loud when talking about wanting to head butt an 87 year old Auntie I think all families have one of those types - someone who wasn't fitted with a filter switch and just spews out what they're thinking! But like Angela said, such thoughtless barbs can be SO cruel at the time so lotty (((((HUGS))))) to you both.

[wildyounghearts]

Great posts everybody

Last night's episodes were the best of the week in my view because the storyline is starting to move on- a lot of very necessary balance was brought to the storyline in terms of presenting an alternative view and while I still have issues with the writing- Jackson is dead and if they are going to try to address matters now- however late- it is at least welcome

The police reaction has been a little OTT for me- in circumstances where Hazel and Aaron are in entirely cooperative and have admitted the killing- there was no need to leave Hazel in a cell overnight or for the ‘am-dram’ bad cop routine- a little sensitivity would not have hampered the investigation

People may feel that Paddy's reaction was OTT but to me it was completely believable- I am quite a calm person ordinarily but if I found out someone I loved had just done this I think I might have reacted the same way- there is a time to get legitimately angry and I think this is one such time

Lotty- you are completely right that for that scene to resonate with the viewer it had to be someone like Paddy saying this to Hazel- everything he said was 100% true- of course it's distressing for her to hear it-and in other circumstances it would not be fair to be saying it to her so quickly after Jackson's death but she and Aaron don’t have the luxury of being treated with kid gloves for a few weeks- they have been arrested for murder- as harsh as it is she needs to hear what Paddy is saying because the 'story' she and Aaron have told themselves; the story Jackson has brainwashed them into believing; won't stand up to outside scrutiny- when Paddy asked them did they even consider whether Jackson was in any fit state to make such a decision (implied:cause the police sure as hell will)- the blank looks on their faces said it all- they couldn't even understand what he was trying to say

I cannot say how wonderful Pauline has been- exceptional- and while you cannot have anything other then immense sympathy for her- Hazel is sleep walking at the moment- she doesn't seem to fully understand the consequences of what she has done and somebody needs to try and cut through the months of Jackson's brainwashing and let her understand that- Hazel and Aaron resemble people who've just escaped a cult at the moment-repeating mantras like 'it's what Jackson wanted' as if this somehow exonerates them- they seem to think the video tape will help- they just don't get what's going on

No wonder Paddy and Chas are distraught- let's not forget- Aaron is still on probation- worse still, he's on probation for assaulting Jackson- now he's administered a fatal dose of drugs to him because it is 'what Jackson wanted'- in the circumstances there is no doubt that he's facing a murder charge and both he and Hazel have confessed to the killing

Gerry's reaction was equally understandable- Hazel has killed his son- a son that he loved- she pushed him away from helping Jackson and then she turns around and kills him- they didn't tell Gerry anything- never gave him any choice or chance to help- they didn't care how it would impact on him- Jackson didn't want Gerry to know because he knew Gerry wouldn't have gone along with it- Jackson would never have been able to bully or emotionally blackmail Gerry- his anger is entirely justified

I was never Chas's biggest fan but I have to say her relationship with Aaron had improved so much in the past year- mainly because she actually took time to talk to him and show concern and interest and involve herself in his life so that whatever her faults and failing- the viewer knows how much she loves her son and how desperate she is to protect him- I think the way she has reacted is entirely credible- attacking hazel but at the same time defending Aaron to Betty and Val

[How wonderful were Betty and Val last night ]

Her scene with Carl at the end was a bit sudden but Carl had been reminded by Jimmy of what he had done for Chas and he could see how distraught she was- this is somebody he loved/loves and had a relationship with for several years- I do think Carl was genuinely concerned for Chas- some people were suggesting this was part of a plot to get revenge- and who knows down the road it might very well become that but last night I thought he was entirely sincere

[Gwen_PYC]

I thought Paddy's reaction was realistic. I think it sunk in how much trouble Aaron is really in and that made his lash out at Hazel.

I agree with Aida that Aaron is a child so I dismiss his role in this nightmare as I think the court will, but there is no excusing Hazel. She has been an awful mother. If she ends up going to prison it would be fitting ending for her. She should have gotten her son help before even thinking of agreeing to help assist in his suicide.

[curlypubes]

Originally Posted by Gwen_PYC

I agree with Aida that Aaron is a child so I dismiss his role in this nightmare as I think the court will, but there is no excusing Hazel. She has been an awful mother. If she ends up going to prison it would be fitting ending for her. She should have gotten her son help before even thinking of agreeing to help assist in his suicide.

He's 19 . While I agree he's obviously not as wise as Hazel, who has had more experience with age, I doubt the courts will let Aaron off cause he's still a young lad. People under the age of 14 benefit from doli incompax - meaning they can't form a sufficient mens rea (intention) to be found guilty of a crime. Aaron is of legal age and can be committed for a crime regardless, and the fact that he's over 18 means he can't even shrug the blame off onto his parents.

However I doubt he'll be detained in the long run, but not because of the age, probably because the judge/jury will feel sorry for them (which is clearly what the law is based on - sympathy ).

[lotty27]

Originally Posted by wildyounghearts

People may feel that Paddy's reaction was OTT but to me it was completely believable- I am quite a calm person ordinarily but if I found out someone I loved had just done this I think I might have reacted the same way- there is a time to get legitimately angry and I think this is one such time

Lotty- you are completely right that for that scene to resonate with the viewer it had to be someone like Paddy saying this to Hazel- everything he said was 100% true- of course it's distressing for her to hear it-and in other circumstances it would not be fair to be saying it to her so quickly after Jackson's death but she and Aaron don’t have the luxury of being treated with kid gloves for a few weeks- they have been arrested for murder- as harsh as it is she needs to hear what Paddy is saying because the 'story' she and Aaron have told themselves; the story Jackson has brainwashed them into believing; won't stand up to outside scrutiny- when Paddy asked them did they even consider whether Jackson was in any fit state to make such a decision (implied:cause the police sure as hell will)- the blank looks on their faces said it all- they couldn't even understand what he was trying to say

Hazel's confused gaze when Paddy questioned Jackson's mental state was something else wasn't it? I don't think it had even occurred to her that her son might be mentally ill. But IMO she was bullied by Jackson, or at the very least his personality was more powerful and persuasive than her own - he knew exactly what strings to pull didn't he? (not making excuses by the way) She is obviously quite a weak woman when it comes to standing up for herself - as shown last night really when Jerry, Paddy and Chas were having a go and it was Aaron who was having to forcibly come to her (their) rescue But were Hazel and Aaron so brainwashed by Jackson that they actually believed what he said about the computer evidence being enough and that they wouldn't be arrested or in trouble generally? Is this what Jackson actually thought? (if it is it's hard to say he'd 'done his homework' isn't it?) or did he just not care by that then? Other than not phoning for an ambulance and looking after his computer was anything actually discussed about what would happen AFTER he was dead? Jackson achieved his aim alright but at what cost to people he is supposed to have loved? So yes, Paddy was right in everything he said - but Pauline Quirke is such a good actress she's actually making me feel sorry for Hazel!

Which brings me to another point: Jackson was quite sanctimonious last year in making sure that Aaron was prosecuted for his attack on him - and rightly so I thought at the time because Aaron had got off with too much and it might teach him a lesson. BUT - Jackson knew that Aaron was still on probation for THAT yet involved him in his assisted suicide?! And this is a man he is supposed to love? And he wasn't quite so sanctimonious when he came to breaking the law for himself was he? Just another black mark for me against their so-called big, all encompassing love affair. BUT, as Paddy rightly said, was Jackson thinking properly at all? Apologies if you've read something similar by me on another thread but I think it's relevant because Aaron could be in serious trouble as, if it's looked at in purely black and white terms - HE'S JUST KILLED OFF THE PERSON HE WAS FOUND GUILTY OF BEATING UP LAST YEAR!!! Did Jackson ever take that into account as that is one huge black mark against Aaron, who is at the end of the day only 19 - same age as my son and believe me, he has some growing up to do yet! IMO Aaron was manipulated and emotionally blackmailed by both Jackson AND Hazel. And he's only 19 Officially an adult I know but how many of us can REALLY say that we knew our @rse from our elbow at that age? (Apologies to any younger posters and people who WERE very grown up at that age - maybe I'm judged everyone by myself and my own family! )

Originally Posted by Gwen_PYC

I thought Paddy's reaction was realistic. I think it sunk in how much trouble Aaron is really in and that made his lash out at Hazel.

I agree with Aida that Aaron is a child so I dismiss his role in this nightmare as I think the court will, but there is no excusing Hazel. She has been an awful mother. If she ends up going to prison it would be fitting ending for her. She should have gotten her son help before even thinking of agreeing to help assist in his suicide.

She's been a very soft mother who found it hard to say no that's for certain.

[wildyounghearts]

Originally Posted by Gwen_PYC

I thought Paddy's reaction was realistic. I think it sunk in how much trouble Aaron is really in and that made his lash out at Hazel.

I agree with Aida that Aaron is a child so I dismiss his role in this nightmare as I think the court will, but there is no excusing Hazel. She has been an awful mother. If she ends up going to prison it would be fitting ending for her. She should have gotten her son help before even thinking of agreeing to help assist in his suicide.

Aaron is only 19, extremely vulnerable whatever brave front he tries to put up- only lasy year he tried to take his own life

Hazel is the adult and should know better

Originally Posted by curlypubes

He's 19 . While I agree he's obviously not as wise as Hazel, who has had more experience with age, I doubt the courts will let Aaron off cause he's still a young lad. People under the age of 14 benefit from doli incompax - meaning they can't form a sufficient mens rea (intention) to be found guilty of a crime. Aaron is of legal age and can be committed for a crime regardless, and the fact that he's over 18 means he can't even shrug the blame off onto his parents.

However I doubt he'll be detained in the long run, but not because of the age, probably because the judge/jury will feel sorry for them (which is clearly what the law is based on - sympathy ).

I don't think people are necessarily suggesting that he is still a child in legal terms- he's not- but in terms of his emotional state (and Aaron is more vulnerable than your average 19 year old in this respect) and in terms of life experience

Originally Posted by lotty27

Hazel's confused gaze when Paddy questioned Jackson's mental state was something else wasn't it? I don't think it had even occurred to her that her son might be mentally ill. But IMO she was bullied by Jackson, or at the very least his personality was more powerful and persuasive than her own - he knew exactly what strings to pull didn't he? (not making excuses by the way) She is obviously quite a weak woman when it comes to standing up for herself - as shown last night really when Jerry, Paddy and Chas were having a go and it was Aaron who was having to forcibly come to her (their) rescue But were Hazel and Aaron so brainwashed by Jackson that they actually believed what he said about the computer evidence being enough and that they wouldn't be arrested or in trouble generally? Is this what Jackson actually thought? (if it is it's hard to say he'd 'done his homework' isn't it?) or did he just not care by that then? Other than not phoning for an ambulance and looking after his computer was anything actually discussed about what would happen AFTER he was dead? Jackson achieved his aim alright but at what cost to people he is supposed to have loved? So yes, Paddy was right in everything he said - but Pauline Quirke is such a good actress she's actually making me feel sorry for Hazel!

Which brings me to another point: Jackson was quite sanctimonious last year in making sure that Aaron was prosecuted for his attack on him - and rightly so I thought at the time because Aaron had got off with too much and it might teach him a lesson. BUT - Jackson knew that Aaron was still on probation for THAT yet involved him in his assisted suicide?! And this is a man he is supposed to love? And he wasn't quite so sanctimonious when he came to breaking the law for himself was he? Just another black mark for me against their so-called big, all encompassing love affair. BUT, as Paddy rightly said, was Jackson thinking properly at all? Apologies if you've read something similar to the above on another thread, I've basically repeated here I think is relevant because Aaron could be in serious trouble as, if it's looked at in purely black and white terms - HE'S JUST KILLED OFF THE PERSON HE WAS FOUND GUILTY OF BEATING UP LAST YEAR!!! Did Jackson ever take that into account as that is one huge black mark against Aaron, who is at the end of the day only 19 - same age as my son and believe me, he has some growing up to do yet! IMO Aaron was manipulated and emotionally blackmailed by both Jackson AND Hazel. And he's only 19 Officially an adult I know but how many of us can REALLY say that we knew our @rse from our elbow at that age? (Apologies to any younger posters and people who WERE very grown up at that age - maybe I'm judged everyone by myself and my own family! )



She's been a very soft mother who found it hard to say no that's for certain.

Yeah- Aaron's previous conviction would be a huge issue- the police would rightly be concerned that this might be a Domestic Violence situation and that Aaron might have bullied Jackson into deciding to end his life

Jackson's actions were immensly selfish- unforgiveably so-

He didn't think about Hazel, he didn't think about Aaron, he didn't think about Jerry but then sucidially depressed people don't think straight- the internal dialogue in their head is distorted- having suffered from depression myself- although mild in comparision I can understand now the distress it cause my family but at the time I couldn't see that clearly- I couldn't see clearly full stop- I couldn't see beyond my only problems let alone empathise with those around me who I was hurting-

so Jackson was incredibly selfish but I don't know to what extent he appreciated that or understood that he was in fact bullying and manipulating those around him

Jackson didn't care too much about the consequences because he wasn't going to be around to have to deal with it- he was going to get his out- seriously considering the real consequences might have changed his mind about doing what he did-

This is why he needed professional help and counselling- this is what made me so frustrated about the storyline- It is almost impossible for me to believe that any mother would not fight to try and get their son help- however worn down and brainwashed

[sheepiefarm]

Originally Posted by wildyounghearts

Aaron is only 19, extremely vulnerable whatever brave front he tries to put up- only lasy year he tried to take his own life

This is where I've become a bit wary about the way that ED writes for its characters now.
I've seen comments on other threads & forums where people are praising Aaron for being more mature & responsible - Paddy & Chas have both been criticised for reacting to the situation as if Aaron were a child - and Aaron standing up & defending Hazel against them is seen as Aaron "growing up".

I agree with you about your interpretation of Aaron - but I'm not convinced that we are still supposed to see him in that way by ED themselves.
In the 3 years that Danny has portrayed the character of Aaron, he has been given so many personality transplants by TPTB and has had so many "maturity spurts" that I'm no longer sure how to interpret him as a character anymore - they've played around with the basic character so much (no doubt in a bid to monopolise Danny's acting ability) that the character lacks any real continuity

This spoiler makes it sound like sentimentality may take precedence over reality in the outcome of this storyline.

Spoiler

Fri 24 Jun
Aaron tells Chas and Paddy he wants them to go to the funeral instead of attending his court hearing. During the service, the congregation is shown Jackson's video message, in which he exonerates Aaron and Hazel and asks everyone to understand that they helped him die out of love.