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Susan *was* wrong about the task |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Camberwick Green
Posts: 179
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Quote:
And if they had paid for the furniture they would have made a profit.
No doubt that would have caused another argument as Susan would have found another reason to try and undermind Zoe & scupper the task. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Quote:
And if they had paid for the furniture they would have made a profit.
Basically they got lucky ..... but its no way to run a business, so Susan clearly DID misunderstand and only after she got lucky tried to claim the credit. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Sorry, but you are not getting this, even though it has been clearly explained.
Whenever there is 'bidding' task you never know what the other team bids. You have to anticipate, guess, and beat it using your instincts. If both teams were clued up, they would have realised they needed to bid a low as possible to beat the other team. So if the lowest bid wins, you obviously bid 'nothing' right? You can't beat 'free' can you? Game over, right? No, you can beat 'free' by giving the client money for his rubbish. Why would you ever do that? Because the rubbish is worth money and you can make a profit. To say it can't be the right thing because the other team didn't think of it is frankly a non-argument. The way you win tasks is by doing things the other team didn't think of! And to say Zoe was right because Edna agreed.. well... Like I said, Susan didn't arrive at her idea through tactics, she just naturally assumed they had to pay. However in this case her natural instinct was correct and they would have won the task if they'd listened to her. I'm fully aware of how bidding for a contract works my point is that Susan didn't grasp it until it was explained to her. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
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The expert gave them tips and advice only.
In the context of winning the task (and general business sense) paying for the desks would have been the winning move, |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Only if they managed to sell it otherwise they would have had to pay to dispose it.
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But like the expert said on Youre Fired ..... thats not what he told them to do and thats not what he would have done.
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Basically they got lucky ..... but its no way to run a business, so Susan clearly DID misunderstand and only after she got lucky tried to claim the credit.
They didn't get lucky with the furniture, they knew they had a valuable resource. It was more hit and miss with the pub rubbish, but it still wasn't luck, they determined that the valuable junk was more than enough to offset the costs of dumping the rest of the rubbish - and they were right.As for it being no way to run a business, I'll refer you to my earlier post, describing how the last time the company I work for cleared a warehouse without charge we netted in excess of £60,000 profit. That's pretty good for 2 days work. |
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#31 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: ¥
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The team had no clue whatsoever that someone would buy the desks but they could see that there was work in moving them. It was luck.
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#32 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 695
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Quote:
The expert gave them tips and advice only.
In the context of winning the task (and general business sense) paying for the desks would have been the winning move, Nowhere in that statement did she say 'Oh we should offer him £150 because there is at least £300 worth of stuff here we can sell.' Also if they had have given him £150, its doubtful they would have made enough from any sales to even recoup the cost, which means all that time that could have been spent elsewhere earning money was lost. Face it, Susan was clueless, then pretended she knew all along. She clearly didnt understand the fundamental concept of what they were doing. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,089
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The team had no clue whatsoever that someone would buy the desks but they could see that there was work in moving them. It was luck.
From the POV of who won the task it was ridiculous. From the POV of how they attacked it, less so. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 958
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When Zoe said on the 2nd job that they should charge £100 ..... Susan clearly said 'I think it should be more.' Then when it finally dawned on her she admitted 'Oh I thought we were paying HIM to take the stuff away.'
Nowhere in that statement did she say 'Oh we should offer him £150 because there is at least £300 worth of stuff here we can sell.' Also if they had have given him £150, its doubtful they would have made enough from any sales to even recoup the cost, which means all that time that could have been spent elsewhere earning money was lost. Face it, Susan was clueless, then pretended she knew all along. She clearly didnt understand the fundamental concept of what they were doing. |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 695
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The line that sums it up for me was when Susan said 'Oh so I was right all along' with complete surprise in her voice.
If she had known she was right all along, she would never have uttered that statement ....... but the way she said it clearly showed she stumbled on the 'right' (which is debatable since her method wouldnt have had her doing the work for free but GIVING the man £150 - how is that to applauded, that her bid was going to be £150 MORE than the other team?) answer. You can't give credit to someone because they lucked out .... at least for all Zoes flaws she was more on track with what the task required, she just didnt give enough thought to how much the other team might undercut her. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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The team had no clue whatsoever that someone would buy the desks but they could see that there was work in moving them. It was luck.
I mean, really, look at what you're saying here. The team got good-quality merchandise for free and then sold it on, and thereby made a profit. You're calling this luck. It's not luck, it's business. Quote:
(which is debatable since her method wouldnt have had her doing the work for free but GIVING the man £150 - how is that to applauded, that her bid was going to be £150 MORE than the other team?)
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#37 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Posts: 5,415
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Jesus I've been facepalming whilst reading this thread all morning.
No-one has said that Susan came up with the idea of paying for the desks as a clever negotiating tactic. I said at the start that she just came out with it based on her instincts. In her mind, it was obvious that they were meant to pay him for all that stuff in front of them, and it turned out her instincts were right, The point is that Susan's 'accidental' idea happened to be the tactic that they *should* have used, had they been on the ball and thought tactically. The idea of paying for the desks was not stupid, and not wrong. It would have won them the task. LS confirmed this in the boardroom. |
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#38 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,325
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The task was one at the margin - they didn't know the industry and were taking a flyer on whether they could sort and sell enough to make a profit. both teams did and both teams could have done better. if somebody says that you can take £300 of copper if you clear some other rubbish for free, then you are being paid £300 IF you can sell it. if you don't know how much you can make on the salvage, you risk getting it wrong every time - the teams both did OK, but could have improved their terms. Susan just started out seeing is as buying reclamation and shifting for that reward, whereas others worked on the assumption that the businesses didn't know that the refuse was capable of being salvage.
they must have been told that cars were not allowed... |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
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I think Susan's 'idea' was based on her misunderstanding of the task. Although, saying that, if the team understood the principles and THEN decided to pay to take away the office furnitute, based on its resale value, then that would have been as risky (but successful!) a strategy as the other team doing it for free.
I am reminded of Chris from last season mistakenly agreeing a % of ALL profits from tickets (tour bus task), instead of only those sold by the ticket agency, and then saying it was his strategy all along
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#40 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Ok ... Your all going to shout at me... in a minute so *hides under pillow while typing*
Susan was right (imo) because all the chairs and desks and office equipment were in good condition and could easily fetch money... even if they paid 50 for it... they would have got money back and made a profit so she did have the right idea. *runs away* |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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But like the expert said on Youre Fired ..... thats not what he told them to do and thats not what he would have done. He always charges.
In the real world I had an office full of nice, matching, quite new furniture and I literally couldn't give it away, I had to arrange to pay a company to come and take it away. Unless the furniture is rare or antique stuff it really isn't worth it, it being worth £50 is a waste of time, it's big and heavy and it will always cost more than that to shift it around. In the real world, not Apprentice Fantasy Land. |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 695
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So because Susan had the right 'instincts' she should be praised? How do you define 'instinct' and how do you define 'luck'?
I once was in Berlin and caught a train to Frankfurt. Now there are two Frankfurts in Germany unbeknownst to me. So an hour into the journey I was talking to the guy next to me and he said 'You are going to the right Frankfurt aren't you?' Frantic, I quickly checked my map, checked where the train was going and determined I was in fact heading to the right Frankfurt. Phew!! Should I give credit to my 'instincts' for jumping on the correct train? Or was it just dumb luck, whereby once finding out I was on the right train I could have said 'Oh yeah I knew it was the right train all along.' |
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#43 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Did you watch a different show to me? She's about the only one who looks humble and often disempowered at not being heard.
I've certainly never seen a smug expression on her face. I think you're confusing it with frustration. When she was sitting in the car and saying, So I wasn't wrong, to me, she looked really smug and a bit " i told you so". Ironic, as she was wrong - they had just been undercut by the other team. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Although I was impressed by Susan when negotiating the copper cylinders as payment for the removal of the rubbish on one of the jobs.
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#45 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Ok ... Your all going to shout at me... in a minute so *hides under pillow while typing*
Susan was right (imo) because all the chairs and desks and office equipment were in good condition and could easily fetch money... even if they paid 50 for it... they would have got money back and made a profit so she did have the right idea. *runs away* |
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#46 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 695
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OK lets try a different tack. Lets compare Susan to Helen.
Helen specifically stated that she believed the items they were removing had value and they could resell them and that it was worth doing the job for free. She acknowledged this was a risky strategy. So whatever the outcome, you could see her thought process, you could see she knew it was a risky strategy but at least she had a vision and a path to follow. Compare and contrast to Susan who said they should just pay the guy £150 to remove the stuff. No rhyme or reason ..... no 'Well I believe we have £300 worth of goods here.' No ..... well I think the other team may well offer to give him £140 so we should make the offer more lucrative. There was absolutely no rhyme or reason behind her thought process and to praise her, well you should be face palming yourself mate. |
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#47 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Does this whole debate remind anyone else of Chris's "wonderful" deal last year on the London Bus tour task - where he gave the tourist office a staggeringly good deal and won their contract. It was made out to be a great intuitive move in the Board room ( and basically secured his way to the final) rather than the accident and lucky break that it actually was.
Susan claiming that she was right all along is in the same category. |
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#48 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Yes, I said that earlier - completely agree!
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#49 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,424
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OK lets try a different tack. Lets compare Susan to Helen.
Helen specifically stated that she believed the items they were removing had value and they could resell them and that it was worth doing the job for free. She acknowledged this was a risky strategy. So whatever the outcome, you could see her thought process, you could see she knew it was a risky strategy but at least she had a vision and a path to follow. Compare and contrast to Susan who said they should just pay the guy £150 to remove the stuff. No rhyme or reason ..... no 'Well I believe we have £300 worth of goods here.' No ..... well I think the other team may well offer to give him £140 so we should make the offer more lucrative. There was absolutely no rhyme or reason behind her thought process and to praise her, well you should be face palming yourself mate. |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Does this whole debate remind anyone else of Chris's "wonderful" deal last year on the London Bus tour task - where he gave the tourist office a staggeringly good deal and won their contract. It was made out to be a great intuitive move in the Board room ( and basically secured his way to the final) rather than the accident and lucky break that it actually was.
Susan claiming that she was right all along is in the same category. I don't completely agree... what Chris did was plain stupid... whereas in this case the equipment was in great condition it could easily fetch money... its not like she said the same thing about paying the other guys ( the other people that LS lined up) to remove their trash... |
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