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The village that doesnt make sense
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sebbie3000
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Like planning something like a character wearing the wrong jacket in a single scene?”

There were other clues with that. And it was noticeable.
sebbie3000
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Who said I hadn't heard that expression before?

Anyway, we'll see....”

Well, if it stood out for you, then you can't be that familiar with its usage...

Otherwise you wouldn't have noticed it!
johnnysaucepn
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Like planning something like a character wearing the wrong jacket in a single scene?”

Answered in the same series. Not forgotten about for a year and a half - so far.
nebogipfel
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“There were other clues with that. And it was noticeable.”

Yes. In fact the last thing I noticed was the jacket. The whole scene was peculiar and screamed out that it was out of sequence somehow. At first I thought it was some bad editing in episode, but soon concluded it was something to shrug about and file away for later. The jacket was just a minor detail. (smug mode - it's not often I spot something that I then find other people have misinterpreted.)

whereas "the X that time forgot" is such a commonly used expression and such a natural thing to be said during that episode that I genuinely am surprised to see people thinking there is anything more to it than the face value interpretation.
zz9
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“Well, if it stood out for you, then you can't be that familiar with its usage...

Otherwise you wouldn't have noticed it!”

Something common can stand out quite easily in scripts. See Checkov's Gun. A gun is a common object, but if you see it in a movie or TV show you know it was put there for a reason.

The whole point about foreshadowing is that what you see or hear appears to be there for a reason, you think you know what it means, but only later do you realise it had another meaning.

To use the Doctors jacket in Flesh And Stone it was a jacket. That's all. He wasn't wearing a space suit or a cowboy hat, nothing that would make you think "WTF?"
You saw it, and 99% of people didn't notice it. It was a jacket. The Doctor often wears a jacket. No big deal.

But they went to a lot of trouble to put that in.

They made sure they had a jacket on set even though Matt was not wearing it. When preparing to shoot that scene they made him put the jacket on. They took continuity photographs. Then when shooting the finale they made sure they matched the whole episode to that continuity photo, had the same jacket, same make up, same hair length. When writing and planing that episode they would have said "We can't have The Doctor get any cuts or bruises, or get his clothes damaged or dirty. He has to look exactly like this"
They went to all that trouble. For a jacket that was seen for a second and noticed by a tiny fraction of the audience.

That jacket was certainly familiar, but it still stood out. To some. As did the Pond/River connection, and we had to wait eighteen months for that to payoff. Pond is a common surname, but it still stood out for some.

Again, we'll see.....
amos_brearley
17-06-2011
They may have taken photos, but his hair *does* grow a few centimetres longer now because of that scene. Travelling backwards with his "The Big Bang" neater trim, it suddenly sprouts into the first-filmed-longer-messier-hairdo he sported during the Angels two parter. Production error? Or another amazing clue left by the Moff, showing us that the Doctor can randomly grow his hair and shorten it again moments later? Clearly foreshadowing another Time Lord named the Barber has survived...And who plays Madame Kovarian??? O...M...G!!!
MinkytheDog
17-06-2011
Funny you should mention his hair - I raised it a few weeks ago when someone asked what links there were between series 5 and 6...

Originally Posted by MinkytheDog:
“Loads - almost certainly including some we don't even know yet.

Rory's memory
Amy's "pregnancy"
Everything to do with River Song
The Silence Tardis

Others are subtle and/or debatable

A glass of wine
The Doctor's hair cut - (oh, come on - has no-one thought to check that out?)
<snip>”

Corwin
17-06-2011
Originally Posted by bugloss:
“where's this newspaper heading, then? Otherwise i'm going to have to rearrange my Whowatch schedule
”

IIRC photo's of the headlines (on a stand outside the newsagent) were from people who were on set before and during filming.

I don't believe the headlines were ever seen clearly (if at all) in the episode (11th Hour) itself.

While it's possible the Prop department did think the scene on the village green was meant to be be in the 1990's and thus produced 1990's headlines and Rory's 1990's dated badge you would have thought that someone would have questioned why they would need modern camera phones and laptops as well.
farstanley
18-06-2011
There were no ducks in the duck pond because they had fallen through a crack in time and the rest of the village wasn't far behind. It was in the process of being forgotten. No wonder the village seemed out of sych.
bugloss
18-06-2011
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“IIRC photo's of the headlines (on a stand outside the newsagent) were from people who were on set before and during filming.

I don't believe the headlines were ever seen clearly (if at all) in the episode (11th Hour) itself.

While it's possible the Prop department did think the scene on the village green was meant to be be in the 1990's and thus produced 1990's headlines and Rory's 1990's dated badge you would have thought that someone would have questioned why they would need modern camera phones and laptops as well.”

ah yes i remember those pictures. Still think the phone dailogue was at worst clunky. Why not also have someone say - how can you get the internet when your computer isn't plugged into a socket
sebbie3000
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by zz9:
“Something common can stand out quite easily in scripts. See Checkov's Gun. A gun is a common object, but if you see it in a movie or TV show you know it was put there for a reason.


The whole point about foreshadowing is that what you see or hear appears to be there for a reason, you think you know what it means, but only later do you realise it had another meaning.

To use the Doctors jacket in Flesh And Stone it was a jacket. That's all. He wasn't wearing a space suit or a cowboy hat, nothing that would make you think "WTF?"
You saw it, and 99% of people didn't notice it. It was a jacket. The Doctor often wears a jacket. No big deal.

But they went to a lot of trouble to put that in.

They made sure they had a jacket on set even though Matt was not wearing it. When preparing to shoot that scene they made him put the jacket on. They took continuity photographs. Then when shooting the finale they made sure they matched the whole episode to that continuity photo, had the same jacket, same make up, same hair length. When writing and planing that episode they would have said "We can't have The Doctor get any cuts or bruises, or get his clothes damaged or dirty. He has to look exactly like this"
They went to all that trouble. For a jacket that was seen for a second and noticed by a tiny fraction of the audience.

That jacket was certainly familiar, but it still stood out. To some. As did the Pond/River connection, and we had to wait eighteen months for that to payoff. Pond is a common surname, but it still stood out for some.

Again, we'll see.....”

How does this apply to speech/phrases?

It doesn't.
johnnysaucepn
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by farstanley:
“There were no ducks in the duck pond because they had fallen through a crack in time and the rest of the village wasn't far behind. It was in the process of being forgotten. No wonder the village seemed out of sych.”

No, not really. The ducks are a metaphor.
sebbie3000
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by farstanley:
“There were no ducks in the duck pond because they had fallen through a crack in time and the rest of the village wasn't far behind. It was in the process of being forgotten. No wonder the village seemed out of sych.”



No, they were just being used as a metaphor.

If they had been erased by the cracks, then as no one in the village was at that point a time traveller, then no one would have remembered anything about the ducks.

It was to show the effects that eing erased by the crack had - the physical being was erased, but the effects were still evident.

At no time in The Eleventh Hour were ducks suggested to have been erased (although they would have been erased in The Big Bang, as everything was getting erased around that museum).

EDIT: Sorry jonny, didn't read your response before I started mine...
Granny McSmith
20-06-2011
The duck pond was mentioned so that there could be a joke about them later in the episode, i.e. when the Doctor sent the message DUCK to POND.

As well as being a metaphor etc.
thatjonesboy
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by rostaria:
“Is it Leadworth or Legworth?
So here we have a typical country village. One pub,one post office. Where mobiles and computers are a common occurance and newspaper headlines from the 90's? I know people have already speculated on this but it just seems on odd thing. Maybe I am rambling I don't know. Maybe the village is out of sync with everywhere else. I am inclined to believe The Doctor has done something to this village to keep the future Pond family safe. This is the only reason I can suspect that they will fully be safe.”

I know that village well, its Llandaff green near cardiff and believe me, it is like stepping into the 50s when you go there.
thatjonesboy
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by thatjonesboy:
“I know that village well, its Llandaff green near cardiff and believe me, it is like stepping into the 50s when you go there.”

Also did you know that Leadworth(correct spelling) is an anagram of (the) Late Dr Who
zz9
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“How does this apply to speech/phrases?

It doesn't.”

To a writer, a gun and some dialogue are just words on a page. A Chekhov's gun can be a gun, an object, a person, a line of dialogue, whatever.

In Hunt For Red October the cook is strangely hanging around when the Political Officer is killed. Why would a lowly cook dare to eavesdrop on officers? Later we find out he's a hidden political officer.
At the start of Jurassic park the hero gives a scary speech to a kid on how a Velociraptor kills. Hmmm... I wonder if that will be important later on....
Iron Man's suit freezing up is given a lot of time early on, and becomes very relevant at the end.

If the Chekhov's Gun is a character you can often spot them as a well known actor playing an apparently small role.
In Get Smart The Rock plays a seemingly minor role, almost a cameo. Why is a famous actor playing such a supporting role? Because he's actually the baddie....
MinkytheDog
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by Granny McSmith:
“The duck pond was mentioned so that there could be a joke about them later in the episode, i.e. when the Doctor sent the message DUCK to POND.

As well as being a metaphor etc.”

It's an example of a philosphical debate that originates in Plato's Republic. He calls on the person to define a chair - which sounds very simple but is actually incredibly complicated and requires an extremly organised thought process.

In that, he defines a word that we translate as "chairness".

In short, every way you try to define a "chair" leaves an opening for another object that is not a chair to fit the description. "You can sit on it" - applies to almost any solid object, for example.

Basically, imagine a pile of books. You use the books to construct an object which you then call a chair. At some point, those books were given a new attribute - chairness.

Quite why 11 was considering that at that specific moment is arguable. He could have been questioning his own "right" to be "The Doctor" - leading up to him proving that he is by thinking like "The Doctor" (more Cartesian than Platonic) - or he could have been asking if this is still reality when parts of it (physical and historical) are missing.

Either way, I get hte impression that the question was actually meant for himself - he was just thinking out loud.
sebbie3000
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by zz9:
“To a writer, a gun and some dialogue are just words on a page. A Chekhov's gun can be a gun, an object, a person, a line of dialogue, whatever.

In Hunt For Red October the cook is strangely hanging around when the Political Officer is killed. Why would a lowly cook dare to eavesdrop on officers? Later we find out he's a hidden political officer.
At the start of Jurassic park the hero gives a scary speech to a kid on how a Velociraptor kills. Hmmm... I wonder if that will be important later on....
Iron Man's suit freezing up is given a lot of time early on, and becomes very relevant at the end.

If the Chekhov's Gun is a character you can often spot them as a well known actor playing an apparently small role.
In Get Smart The Rock plays a seemingly minor role, almost a cameo. Why is a famous actor playing such a supporting role? Because he's actually the baddie....”

None of the examples you use resemble a well-known phrase being used entirely in context to describe something to which it intimately resembles.

To use trope parlance, they were lampshades for plot points. They were incongruous to the backgrounds - as in: 'they stood out'.

The phrase: 'The village that time forgot' being used to describe a village that appears to have stayed old-fashioned despite the progression of time and developments is entirely congruous - as in: 'doesn't stand out'.
Pres.F
20-06-2011
presumably this link is the mentioned newspaper article.

http://www.doctorwholocations.net/al...-091002/sf-082
Bezmina
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by Pres.F:
“presumably this link is the mentioned newspaper article.

http://www.doctorwholocations.net/al...-091002/sf-082”

So Nintendo unveils exciting new line up for xmas..... hmmm nothing about launch of N64 there.
MinkytheDog
20-06-2011
What about the "5-95" on the newspaper sign - any suggestions as to what that means?
Pres.F
20-06-2011
Originally Posted by Bezmina:
“So Nintendo unveils exciting new line up for xmas..... hmmm nothing about launch of N64 there.”

Seems like it's mentioned here;

http://www.doctorwholocations.net/al...filming-091002

Could refer to many different things in the long history of Nintendo.....although I don't think any of the announcements in the history of the company were front page news
littlesnowbear
20-06-2011
Unless the 5-95 is the date then I don't see how it proves its the 90's plus you'd have to repaint the sign every month.
MinkytheDog
20-06-2011
If that "5-95" photo is from "Amy's choice", it may be worth noting that in 11th Hour, the notice board is different - http://www.flickr.com/photos/thalfoo...in/photostream
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