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I think Jim is being unfairly portrayed as a villain.


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Old 15-06-2011, 23:59
unclekevo
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He's a nice guy IRL though
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:00
LeoJoe6
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Completely agree. He doesn't manipulate so much as use the agressive wide-eyed stare whilst speaking in a reasonable tone-Karen had him to a tee, he is passive aggressive but not in the therapy-speak version of it. Jim might get few pence knocked off his weekly shop in the market but thats not the same as having "negotiating skills"
He completely failed to read the signals he was being given by the first agency as he was so focused on getting his own way- a very poor negotiator imo and he doesn't half think highly of himself despite the fact that he has splinters in his arse from sitting on the fence so he cant be blamed for anything.
Excuse my ignorance. I don't understand how he is being passive aggresive
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:07
pixieboots
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Excuse my ignorance. I don't understand how he is being passive aggresive
I did say not in the therapy version of it. His body language is extremely aggressive whilst his verbal communication remains passive when he is making a point-it confuses people and they withdraw. When they don't withdraw, like Glen tonight saying he was a control freak, Jim is at a loss as to what to do.
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:18
Ænima
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He's a nice guy IRL though
He's a complete tosser on real life telly though
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:37
supersquirrel
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Isn't it awful when someone you really like starts to become hated (If only by the audience of The Apprentice You're Hired.)

I love Jim, but fear he's going to crash and burn.
I know, I really didn't expect that level of hatred from the YF audience - or Jenny Eclair for that matter!

I can't actually help it, I love Jim. Although I am completely aware that he is even managing to manipulate me through my telly. He annoyed me at several points on this task, and I didn't think what he was saying about Susan in the boardroom was appropriate. But then he only had to say one thing and I was like, ALL IS FORGIVEN!

My guess is he won't win, but I'm Team Jim all the way.
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:47
Miriam_R
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Discuss...

and feel free to disagree...
Ok, I disagree.

A few of the candidates have had horrible edits at different points during this series. Some constanly, like Susan, and then others for an episode or two like maybe Edna, Zoe, Vincent etc. Jim is just getting his fair share of negative VT roll in my view and it's not like it's completely unnfounded is it.
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Old 16-06-2011, 07:36
livia123
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As a Jim fan, I can say hand on heart, that he should have gone last night. But I don't get the hate for him on You're Fired. Sure he was a bit tough in the boardroom but no more so than other candidates. I think it was maybe down to the fact that the audience felt that he should have been sitting there.

The fact remains that none of the other candidates have anything negative to say about him as a person, including Glenn last night. It will certainly be interesting to see how him and Susan get on in future tasks.
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Old 16-06-2011, 08:04
Venetian
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I think that in the early task he was spot on but tonight he was way off the mark and did not get the task at all. As much as I dont like Zoe, she was right about the Hip being taken completely differently to what Jim realised and Jim lost the connection completeley and made it too old fashioned and his negotiations were shocking with Susan telling him that he should slash his prices. But wouldn't out of stubborness!

Jim was very, very lucky not to have gone tonight and I think that Sir Alan only kept him there for another couple of weeks for pure entertainment and he knew that Glen would not fit in with his organisation anyway!
I agree with all of this : especially the second paragraph. Jim is great telly, it would not be the same without him.

What is there not to like about Jim? He's good looking, smart, charming, confident, intelligent and on on. Perhaps he has too much of everything? All of the good traits are countered by inflexibility, self-righteouness and coldness. Not good business traits. I work for someone exactly like this who is not respected or liked and our team could be doing so much better with someone else at the helm. We do well but it could be better.
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Old 16-06-2011, 08:20
LeoJoe6
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All of the good traits are countered by inflexibility, self-righteouness and coldness. Not good business traits. I work for someone exactly like this who is not respected or liked and our team could be doing so much better with someone else at the helm. We do well but it could be better.
I think the edit is trying to push Jim as this kind of character but I just don't think this is true. All of the candidates who have spoken about Jim on you're fired have only spoken nicely about him - saying what a nice guy he is, and obviously people respect him as people listen to him.
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Old 16-06-2011, 09:47
Socha
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Excuse my ignorance. I don't understand how he is being passive aggresive
Karren's remark only showed that she doesn't know what 'passive-agressive' means.

Jim is totally the opposite of passive-agressive. He's very outspoken, but has a good feeling for people's soft spots and knows how to charm them into doing what he wants them to do. In that sense he can be seen as manipulative, but certainly not in a passive-agressive manner.

I have a strong feeling that LS, Karren AND Nick were so taken in/back by Jim's earlier performance (both in the tasks and especially in the boardroom where he literally silenced LS himself), that they now want to show him up as a manipulator in order to make themselves look stronger again.
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Old 16-06-2011, 09:52
Socha
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Ok, I disagree.

A few of the candidates have had horrible edits at different points during this series. Some constanly, like Susan, and then others for an episode or two like maybe Edna, Zoe, Vincent etc. Jim is just getting his fair share of negative VT roll in my view and it's not like it's completely unnfounded is it.
What IS unfounded is the way the negativity is worded: 'evil', 'snake-like', 'passive-agressive' etc.

He made some very bad business decisions in the last task and he used a clever strategy of involving other team members in some key-decisions (like choosing the mags choice), both I guess to get their commitment and in order to use it in the boardroom should the decision turn out to be a bad one). That does not warrant the qualifications he now gets as a kind of Machiavellian evil mastermind.
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Old 16-06-2011, 09:56
darthtoon
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I really like Jim - think there's been some clever editing to build him up then go for the villain angle. Makes for good telly though so he should be around for a while yet.
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:05
Venetian
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I think the edit is trying to push Jim as this kind of character but I just don't think this is true. All of the candidates who have spoken about Jim on you're fired have only spoken nicely about him - saying what a nice guy he is, and obviously people respect him as people listen to him.
I think we will have to agree to disagree here

I didn't say I thought Jim was not a nice guy and he probably is. He possesses a ruthless streak [some people will think this is a good thing in business]. There comes a time when never giving way (even when you know you are wrong) loses all respect - in my world anyway.

I take on board what everyone is saying about the editing but the candidate has to say what they say and behave in the way they do for it to be edited, and the public are not that gullible.
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:22
Button62
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I was a Jim fan from day one, but just lately he is coming across as a bit of a dipstick.

His personal attack on Susan last night was appalling and to reort to name calling was rather pathetic. His lying regarding the style and font of the front cover made me go off him even more.

We have to bear in mind though that the boardroom stage can take up to 3 hours and is obviously highly edited to only show the good bits.

If he gets to the interview stage I suspect he will be another Tre/Stubaggs .... picked apart because of his failure to tell the truth.
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:24
Joel_B
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I went off Jim when he started called Susan "Bambi" and "Mouse". If you want to stay professional then you stick to their skills and abilities, or lack of. Reducing someone to a name means you just want to stick a label on them. It also smacks of the playground.

Really, really unprofessional. (But then we do know that the majority of Apprentices wouldn't know a professional if it bit them on the arse).

Add me to the pile of people who want Jim to meet Margret in the interviews...
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:25
davedub
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I think Jim is being unfairly portrayed as a villain.

Although what can you expect? As this is a show primarily for entertainment.

Discuss...

and feel free to disagree...
I like Jim and if I was looking to start a business with someone Id want somebody with his ambition, however he fails to put his hand up if he's in the wrong and sometimes he stabs his collegues in the back with is not good in business
I hope he makes the final tho
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:30
The Spoon
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The programme needs a 'villain' and despite the fact that Jim gets his way through consensus-building, he is portrayed as 'bad' for making everybody take collective responsibility for decisions - it is a Japanese model of management from what I understand and it has worked very well for them.

he was 'tinkerman' on the titles and worse, naive about the rate card, but by the time they disagreed with him, it was too late to alter the strategy.

I would have gone with 'New Hip' rather than 'Hip replacement' as the word-play works better with something being the new hip.

he is a bit too much of a micro-manager IMO, but I certainly don't think that he is an unethical villain like some proevious contestants.
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:31
Button62
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I went off Jim when he started called Susan "Bambi" and "Mouse". If you want to stay professional then you stick to their skills and abilities, or lack of. Reducing someone to a name means you just want to stick a label on them. It also smacks of the playground.

Really, really unprofessional. (But then we do know that the majority of Apprentices wouldn't know a professional if it bit them on the arse).

Add me to the pile of people who want Jim to meet Margret in the interviews...



I can't wait to see her arched eyebrow and quizzical look as he tries to manipulate her into liking him because of the Ulster link
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:42
George's Mom
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He is being portrayed as a villain, but not a nasty one like Katie Hopkins or Jenny C... Jim just seems to have more nerve or cheek or something than any other candidate. It's actually very entertaining to watch.

Like this week 'Zoe came up with the name' as if it's her fault compared to two weeks ago 'I just came up with the name' as if it's Vincent's fault for backing him.

And 'I don't think you should choose me' to 'PMs decision is final, Glenn!'


That was classic!
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Old 16-06-2011, 10:42
LUNY LOVEGOOD
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I have always loved Jedi Jim !:I agree he has made me cringe lately with his antics.For me he makes this series worth watching.He would make a great James Bond villan "You are BAMBI ! Mr Bond."
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Old 16-06-2011, 11:09
Joel_B
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[/b]


I can't wait to see her arched eyebrow and quizzical look as he tries to manipulate her into liking him because of the Ulster link
"I'm from Ulster, Margret. You're from Ulster. We like each other don't we...? You like me...?"

"No"
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Old 16-06-2011, 11:23
Miles_T
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I saw through Jim weeks ago, was in the minority then, glad to see most have sussed him out now.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:51
Syntax Error
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I like Jim a lot.

I don't know if he is truly 'Apprentice' material, but he is far & away the best character on the show.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:58
The Spoon
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I saw through Jim weeks ago, was in the minority then, glad to see most have sussed him out now.
'saw through'? what do you mean? realised that he works on consensus and will not accept more blame that he thinks he deserves? he is in it to win it and the show needs the likes of Jim to counteract the likes of Susan and Glenn.

Jim could do with accepting a little more blame, but when have TA contestants ever relied on having a field of ponies to pull them out of the bog?

Jim is playing the game fairly and has that tough streak that LAS will want to see. it may not always be pretty, but it works.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:04
Osusana
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He's definitely talented - his negotiation skills at the beggining were far better than anyone elses - the reason why he failed negotiations the last few tasks is due more to not understanding the market. Also his very eloquent with answering questions on the spot.... as he did after Leons awful pitch in the app task, and also in answering questions in this tasks. You may not like him personally, but talented, he is.
I saw what you did there

He made some very bad business decisions in the last task and he used a clever strategy of involving other team members in some key-decisions (like choosing the mags choice), both I guess to get their commitment and in order to use it in the boardroom should the decision turn out to be a bad one). That does not warrant the qualifications he now gets as a kind of Machiavellian evil mastermind.

IMO it is not a clever strategy to involve others with making a decision, then changing that decision himself (as in the magazine cover) and then blaming it on the others as being a "team decision" - well it was until you changed it mate!

Dislike Jim intensely - the kind of person who thinks they have charm and can take "hearts and minds" - I can usually see through first meeting and would not have any dealings with.
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