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I think Jim is being unfairly portrayed as a villain.


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Old 16-06-2011, 13:15
Spot the Cat
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he's a charming, eloquent guy and I don't think those qualities should be underestimated in business.
I think those have become far too important in business. You have people who can persuade you they are right and know what they're doing, with absolutely nothing to back it up. They are the ones who succeed on a personal basis, leaving a trail of disaster behind them. Like Fred the Shred, firing people left right and centre, moving an entire industry abroad, destroying his bank and countless people's lives and receiving several million as pay-off.

Meanwhile the shy, stuttering Toms of the world are ignored; despite being right about everything. They are/were in the banking world too and were ignored the same way during the boom times.

Jim should probably move into politics.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:18
Spot the Cat
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Excuse my ignorance. I don't understand how he is being passive aggresive
I think repeatedly calling Susan a mouse, in a calm voice is a good example of that.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:35
meglosmurmurs
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The problem is that Jim thinks he's cleverer than everyone else, including Sugar, so naturally Sugar is going to take him down a peg or two.
He won't get rid of him straight-away or else Jim might simply feel that Sugar couldn't handle him and that he was a threat, so instead he will try to teach him a lesson and humble him before letting him go.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:49
Miriam_R
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What IS unfounded is the way the negativity is worded: 'evil', 'snake-like', 'passive-agressive' etc .
Erm, I didn't come up with any of those words, so why you've quoted me I don't know.


He made some very bad business decisions in the last task and he used a clever strategy of involving other team members in some key-decisions (like choosing the mags choice), both I guess to get their commitment and in order to use it in the boardroom should the decision turn out to be a bad one). That does not warrant the qualifications he now gets as a kind of Machiavellian evil mastermind.
He didn't just display flaws in the last task alone, did you miss every other episode apart from yesterdays?

He ALWAYS involves other team members when he can, always! It's not a clever strategy, it's typical strategy that Jim uses. Decisions are never completely his own in aim to never be held soley accountable for something. I don't like Zoe but she was right when told Sugar that he was doing his own thing with the cover then tried to make out that she was basically in on it (which she wasn't, she clearly didn't agree).

If others want to call him bad, manipulative, or an evil mastermind then that is up to them. If you want to know why people call him these things then it would be better if you quote the actual people on here that have described him as such, then you might find out why they feel calling him an evil snake is/isn't founded. Jim talks BS though and you can def quote that as from me!
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:00
omgwtfbbq
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I don't think he's being portrayed as a villain. I think he's being portrayed as a complete and utter knob - which he was, last night.

I love that Susan proved too much for him to handle in the boardroom after he called her a mouse.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:05
Jepson
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I don't think he's being portrayed as a villain. I think he's being portrayed as a complete and utter knob - which he was, last night.

I love that Susan proved too much for him to handle in the boardroom after he called her a mouse.
Yes.

The trouble was that he was too dense to realise that she'd completely demolished him (with the help of both Nick and Glen) and continued to try and patronise her.

I don't think he's evil, or even that much of a knob. I just think he's chosen a strategy for playing this game that is not really working now.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:12
RealityReal31
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I have completely gone off Jim after last night. He is extremely patronising and arrogant, and he blamed Zoey for the name concept in his vt - something which he tried to wriggle out of with 'Everydog'
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:38
LeoJoe6
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Karren's remark only showed that she doesn't know what 'passive-agressive' means.

Jim is totally the opposite of passive-agressive. He's very outspoken, but has a good feeling for people's soft spots and knows how to charm them into doing what he wants them to do. In that sense he can be seen as manipulative, but certainly not in a passive-agressive manner.

I have a strong feeling that LS, Karren AND Nick were so taken in/back by Jim's earlier performance (both in the tasks and especially in the boardroom where he literally silenced LS himself), that they now want to show him up as a manipulator in order to make themselves look stronger again.
Thankyou for explaining that to me, it all makes sense now

What IS unfounded is the way the negativity is worded: 'evil', 'snake-like', 'passive-agressive' etc.

He made some very bad business decisions in the last task and he used a clever strategy of involving other team members in some key-decisions (like choosing the mags choice), both I guess to get their commitment and in order to use it in the boardroom should the decision turn out to be a bad one). That does not warrant the qualifications he now gets as a kind of Machiavellian evil mastermind.
I'm glad someone else agrees with me that the labels Jim has been getting are unfair - even if it isn't popular opinion atm... Jim will have to seriously up his game if he wants to do well though now, it feels LS is just keeping him in to have a go at him at a later stage, it's obvious he doesn't intend on Jim getting further than the interviews.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:39
Miles_T
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'saw through'? what do you mean? realised that he works on consensus and will not accept more blame that he thinks he deserves? he is in it to win it and the show needs the likes of Jim to counteract the likes of Susan and Glenn.

Jim could do with accepting a little more blame, but when have TA contestants ever relied on having a field of ponies to pull them out of the bog?

Jim is playing the game fairly and has that tough streak that LAS will want to see. it may not always be pretty, but it works.
That he is an arrogant, aggressive person who hasn't got any good ideas anything else??
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:45
LeoJoe6
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I have completely gone off Jim after last night. He is extremely patronising and arrogant, and he blamed Zoey for the name concept in his vt - something which he tried to wriggle out of with 'Everydog'
That's because with 'everydog' the concept was the main problem the name was just something from a melting pot of names that Vincent decided to go with his concept. If Vincent went for Natasha's suggestion 'Totaldog' would that make the tasks loss due to Natasha?

This task, the concept - which Jim suggested - was a good one as the professionals were saying there was a gap in the market there. Although Jim did mess up the concept, it was explicit (again by the professionals) the name was a hinderence as it could have been seen as offensive, of which Zoe came up with.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:53
jdayeh13
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That's because with 'everydog' the concept was the main problem the name was just something from a melting pot of names that Vincent decided to go with his concept. If Vincent went for Natasha's suggestion 'Totaldog' would that make the tasks loss due to Natasha?

This task, the concept - which Jim suggested - was a good one as the professionals were saying there was a gap in the market there. Although Jim did mess up the concept, it was explicit (again by the professionals) the name was a hinderence as it could have been seen as offensive, of which Zoe came up with.
Yes I agree with that, but what I meant was that Jim gave the name 'everydog' while they were all throwing names out there and got blamed - which he rightly argued. However, it was a similar situation with Zoey, where she threw a name out (as everyone else was doing) and Jim choose it - and then went on to blame her for the task in the floating head vt
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Old 16-06-2011, 16:08
LeoJoe6
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Yes I agree with that, but what I meant was that Jim gave the name 'everydog' while they were all throwing names out there and got blamed - which he rightly argued. However, it was a similar situation with Zoey, where she threw a name out (as everyone else was doing) and Jim choose it - and then went on to blame her for the task in the floating head vt
I see your point. It was partly Jim's fault as PM to go with it. However I'm shocked none of the people in the team saw the criticism for that name from a mile of. None of them. Before any Susan fans bombard me with that statement, she just said "I don't like it" which isn't giving any valid arguement or reasoning against the name. In all honesty I don't think she was particularly against the name, just giving herself a safety net - which I don't blame her for - she's here to win like everyone else.
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Old 16-06-2011, 16:11
meglosmurmurs
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'saw through'? what do you mean? realised that he works on consensus and will not accept more blame that he thinks he deserves? he is in it to win it and the show needs the likes of Jim to counteract the likes of Susan and Glenn.

Jim could do with accepting a little more blame, but when have TA contestants ever relied on having a field of ponies to pull them out of the bog?

Jim is playing the game fairly and has that tough streak that LAS will want to see. it may not always be pretty, but it works.
What, good vs evil?
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Old 16-06-2011, 18:58
cookie_365
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I don't think he's being portrayed as a villain. I think he's being portrayed as a complete and utter knob - which he was, last night.

I love that Susan proved too much for him to handle in the boardroom after he called her a mouse.
This.

As far as I can see he has one, single business skill - he's a very good negotiator.

But in every other area, he's useless. In fact, he's only a good negotiator in pure money-for-object circumstances; he seems totally lost when negotiating services - probably as they involve mutual rapport and trust, and he oozes untrustworthiness.
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Old 16-06-2011, 19:00
Zoltan Smith
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He is a typical salesman who would wet his pants if he ever had to run a business and deal with bad things.
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Old 16-06-2011, 19:25
scrappy555
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I have completely gone off Jim after last night. He is extremely patronising and arrogant, and he blamed Zoey for the name concept in his vt - something which he tried to wriggle out of with 'Everydog'
I don't really blame Jim for focusing on the name, he probably thought Zoey would get the same treatment as him in the boardroom. It does seem a bit unfair of LS to grill Jim on a bad name that went with the concept but not Zoey.
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Old 16-06-2011, 19:29
Syntax Error
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The problem is that Jim thinks he's cleverer than everyone else, including Sugar, so naturally Sugar is going to take him down a peg or two.
He won't get rid of him straight-away or else Jim might simply feel that Sugar couldn't handle him and that he was a threat, so instead he will try to teach him a lesson and humble him before letting him go.
I think you've summed it up well.

Jim does definitely think he is more intelligent than anybody else.

I think Lord Sugar is just setting him up for a big fall, because, by rights, he should have gone last night, but I think Lord Sugar is playing the TV game, as he knows that Jim is box office.
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Old 16-06-2011, 19:32
yakutz
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Yes I agree with that, but what I meant was that Jim gave the name 'everydog' while they were all throwing names out there and got blamed - which he rightly argued. However, it was a similar situation with Zoey, where she threw a name out (as everyone else was doing) and Jim choose it - and then went on to blame her for the task in the floating head vt
Yes, but he didn't use it as a stick to beat her with in the boardroom, and didn't bring her back in to the final 3. So I really don't think there was any hypocrisy at play there.
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Old 16-06-2011, 20:14
auron87
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I think he's a really horrible idiot.
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Old 16-06-2011, 20:56
Socha
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Erm, I didn't come up with any of those words, so why you've quoted me I don't know.

Ah... sorry Miriam. II highlighted the part where you said that the criticism wasn't completely unfouded and based my reply on that. Then the quote and my post got mixed up, I edited and the higlight got lost, so maybe that's why it looked as if I implied you said those things, though it was obvious from your post that you didn't.

He didn't just display flaws in the last task alone, did you miss every other episode apart from yesterdays?

He ALWAYS involves other team members when he can, always! It's not a clever strategy, it's typical strategy that Jim uses. Decisions are never completely his own in aim to never be held soley accountable for something. I don't like Zoe but she was right when told Sugar that he was doing his own thing with the cover then tried to make out that she was basically in on it (which she wasn't, she clearly didn't agree).
I'm not denying he showed flaws, though I don't think it's a flaw per se to involve other teammembers. I think he sees it as a clever strategy with the aim not to be solely accountable as you say when things go wrong. But as a strategy it can't be held against him to involve other teammembers.I It's clever to get a go-no go decision from all your teammembers on some key moments.

Also Nick can't claim that Jim NEVER makes a decision on his own, as the last task clearly showed that he did, and the decisions he did make on his own (changing the cover, not negotiating on the rates) cost tthe team the task.
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Old 16-06-2011, 21:18
shefair
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\In fairness to Jim the first week or so I thought he was wonderful and real breath of fresh air

Over the last few weeks he has been proved to be manipulative and does not really make sound buisness decisions

however as Sid said earilier he is a charming eloquent man and thos skills will see him suceed in many areas, not least buisness

I think he needs to learn to listen, if he had listened to Susan about the name and the discounting , they may well have won and his manipulation in the Boardroom would have been unneccesssary and we may all have thought a little better of him
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Old 16-06-2011, 21:19
cushty
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Nick Hewer despises him and rightly so
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Old 16-06-2011, 21:49
BelligerentBoss
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The guy is a loser. His constant desire to describe people with childish descriptives such as 'bambie' etc is unprofessional and only likely to make him no friends. Even those not on the receiving end of his digs would be reluctant to engage with the guy to any depth whatsoever, it isn't worth the hassle.

Karen, who I find is spot on in almost everything she says, put a 6" nail into his coffin last night by highlighting him as a 'passive aggressive'. I couldn't agree more!
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Old 16-06-2011, 21:52
LeoJoe6
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\In fairness to Jim the first week or so I thought he was wonderful and real breath of fresh air

Over the last few weeks he has been proved to be manipulative and does not really make sound buisness decisions

however as Sid said earilier he is a charming eloquent man and thos skills will see him suceed in many areas, not least buisness

I think he needs to learn to listen, if he had listened to Susan about the name and the discounting , they may well have won and his manipulation in the Boardroom would have been unneccesssary and we may all have thought a little better of him
Firstly, why should he have listened to Susan on the name. All she said was "I don't like it" she didn't say why it was a bad name or offered any reasoning so there wasn't any reason to listen to her. She did it to come up with a safety net, and luckily for her, it succeeded. Secondly, Jim did change his tact on the discounting after the first pitch when it didn't work. Whether that was up to listening to Susan or his own initiative we don't know. I'm just saying the point of yours that I highlighted is only founded with hindsight.
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Old 17-06-2011, 00:06
masterquan
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I catched the end of the episode and boy can this guy talk. Superb on the spot responses
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