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The 4 Mouthy Ones v The 4 Safer Quieter ones


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Old 15-06-2011, 23:31
DUNDEEBOY
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Time for another division of the 8 left.

You have the mouthy ones

Jim
Natasha
Zoe
Melody

Safer Quieter ones

Helen
Tom
Leon
Susan (probably)

I get the feeling he will hire from the safe bottom section although I prefer watching the top section as a viewer and would love those 4 in the interviews but I don't think it will happen sadly

But please can we have a boardroom with 3 or the top 4, the boardroom door would blow off its hinges
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:33
ll_Calypso_ll
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I wouldn't really consider Melody 'mouthy.' Then again, we've never really seen her in the firing line as of yet, so I guess time will tell.
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:34
Ænima
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Well, not being mouthy and annoying is definitely a good thing.

They have just as much, if not more going for them and they aren't irritating with it. Result.
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:35
Darcyprincess
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Time for another division of the 8 left.

You have the mouthy ones

Jim
Natasha
Zoe
Melody

Safer Quieter ones

Helen
Tom
Leon
Susan (probably)

I get the feeling he will hire from the safe bottom section although I prefer watching the top section as a viewer and would love those 4 in the interviews but I don't think it will happen sadly

But please can we have a boardroom with 3 or the top 4, the boardroom door would blow off its hinges
I would like to see Natasha and Zoe out of the top and Susan and Tom in the top with Jim and Melody and then the final two Susan and Melody!
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:39
-Sid-
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For someone who isn't considered "mouthy", it's Susan's voice I seem to hear most week in week out.

Melody started off as mouthy but has become virtually invisible lately.

Natasha is mouthy, but without managing to say anything particularly intelligent.

And Jim, well despite his faults, I could listen to him talk all night.He can be as mouthy as he wants!
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:43
Ænima
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For someone who isn't considered "mouthy", it's Susan's voice I seem to hear most week in week out.

Melody started off as mouthy but has become virtually invisible lately.

Natasha is mouthy, but without managing to say anything particularly intelligent.

And Jim, well despite his faults, I could listen to him talk all night.He can be as mouthy as he wants!
I think that's mainly the editing. I'd bet Melody is a little bit louder than Susan. Susan is a bit more reserved, but she was on the losing team so got more of the edit. I've not really seen Susan start any arguments- she tends to mostly be responding to attacks from other people- usually Zoe, who for some reason appears to hate her guts!
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:48
-Sid-
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I think that's mainly the editing. I'd bet Melody is a little bit louder than Susan. Susan is a bit more reserved, but she was on the losing team so got more of the edit. I've not really seen Susan start any arguments- she tends to mostly be responding to attacks from other people- usually Zoe, who for some reason appears to hate her guts!
Zoe is very straightforward and seems to appreciate this quality in others. Twice now, Susan has fibbed in the boardroom (once when she tried to wriggle out of the claims she made about how much beauty product she thought she'd be able to flog, and secondly about how she put herself forward for the pitch tonight when in reality she opted out straight away) - and I think Zoe gets wound up by this.
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:55
Ænima
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Zoe is very straightforward and seems to appreciate this quality in others. Twice now, Susan has fibbed in the boardroom (once when she tried to wriggle out of the claims she made about how much beauty product she thought she'd be able to flog, and secondly about how she put herself forward for the pitch tonight when in reality she opted out straight away) - and I think Zoe gets wound up by this.
I don't see it that way. I see it as a lot of strong, pushy characters picking on the quiet, more intelligent girl, who usually ends up being right and who they then end up resenting for it.

They think they all have to go in there all guns blazing and Susans more reserved approach annoys them- especially when she ends up being right- which has happened time and time again.
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:00
Sherlock_Holmes
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Zoe is very straightforward and seems to appreciate this quality in others.
Actually, ZoeŽs whole body language reminds me of Katie Hopkins and her hatred towards Adam and Kristina.

It just seems to come from nowhere and I fail to see any business skills she might have because of it (and it WILL continue).

There are better ways to deal with a nagging child (Brrr....the thought of Zoe and children ).
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:00
the_lostprophet
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I don't see it that way. I see it as a lot of strong, pushy characters picking on the quiet, more intelligent girl, who usually ends up being right and who they then end up resenting for it.
Yes that's how I read it too. Jim tonight even resorted to calling her a 'meek little mouse' which isn't on at all. Susan is right about a lot of things and they can't stand it - she comes across as one of the most intelligent candidates this year. Not sure how she's supposed to go forward now that she has been given this warning though because whatever Sugar says about her needing to push herself forward, it's nigh on impossible to MAKE people respect you if they just don't because you're small or happen to have a little girly voice or whatever.

Seriously - how does he propose that a girly sounding person is meant to be able to force her views on others when the likes of Zoe will just bulldoze her out the way? She had another dig at Susan in the cafe today I notice too. It always fascinates me when Sugar goes on about people needing to do this. When he talks about how "Age/looks etc aren't relevant 'cause I did blah blah blah when I was 17" it's not a comparable situation 'cause he was a young man; but it's very difficult for an overly feminine-seeming young female to command respect. People do react to other people's physicality at the end of the day.
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:14
Ænima
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Yes that's how I read it too. Jim tonight even resorted to calling her a 'meek little mouse' which isn't on at all. Susan is right about a lot of things and they can't stand it - she comes across as one of the most intelligent candidates this year. Not sure how she's supposed to go forward now that she has been given this warning though because whatever Sugar says about her needing to push herself forward, it's nigh on impossible to MAKE people respect you if they just don't because you're small or have a little girly voice or whatever.

Seriously - how does he propose that a girly sounding person is meant to be able to force her views on others when the likes of Zoe will just bulldoze her out the way? It always fascinates me when Sugar goes on about people needing to do this. When he talks about how "Age/looks etc aren't relevant 'cause I did blah blah blah when I was 17" it's not really a comparable situation 'cause he was a young man; definitely very difficult for an overly feminine-seeming female to demand respect.
Exactly- he'd lost the moment he resorted to name calling, rather than actually attacking anything she might have done/ not done. He knew she had been right about the negotiation. She voiced it to him and as usual, it was ignored. I think these people need to understand that being team leader doesn't make them better than anyone else! If anything it means they should try to lead people, not just shout them down and do everything their way.

And yes, you're right. Sugar will criticize people for things they can't even control. If they don't respect her, they don't respect her. It's all ok though because he was way better than all of them when he was 17, obviously (we can never hear that enough )
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:30
Miriam_R
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Is it just me, I don't feel that any of the candidates are particulalry mouthy. I tend to think of mouthy as a trait which involves just sounding off all of the time and thinking their opinions are right (even if wrong or not even asked for). In the past peole like Debrah springs to mind and another girl that I can't remember the name of. Syed talked too much but he was more a waffler than a mouthy type person.

I don't find Tom, Helen, Susan or Leon quiet at all. I think their level of chat and the volume of it is just...., normal. And I don't view Melody, Zoe or Jim as mouthy either, to me they seem to talk when need be. I wonder if the annoyance of Melody's voice is being mistaken for her being mouthy? Jim' isn't mouthy, he just talks BS sometimes. With Natasha, she also talks cr** sometimes and her constant, yep, yep, yep, yep.. line is so annyoying!!!!!!!
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:50
DavetheScot
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Zoe is very straightforward and seems to appreciate this quality in others. Twice now, Susan has fibbed in the boardroom (once when she tried to wriggle out of the claims she made about how much beauty product she thought she'd be able to flog, and secondly about how she put herself forward for the pitch tonight when in reality she opted out straight away) - and I think Zoe gets wound up by this.
On the first matter, she didn't fib. She hadn't in fact said what it was being claimed she had.

On the second, we didn't see her put herself forward for the pitch, but given that the rest of the team eventually grudgingly admitted that she had, I think we must assume this did happen but wasn't shown. They, on the other hand, were definitely liars because they claimed that she hadn't said she didn't like the name Hip Replacement, or if she had had only whispered it. In fact, we know she said this very clearly, and I'm irritated that Nick wasn't seen to step in on that, as he did when Jim lied about Susan's comments about his (lack of) negotiation and her insistence they should be prepared to reduce their price.
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Old 16-06-2011, 20:11
brangdon
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I don't see it that way. I see it as a lot of strong, pushy characters picking on the quiet, more intelligent girl, who usually ends up being right and who they then end up resenting for it.
I've not seen them pick on her (except in the boardroom). For example, when she didn't vote for the "Hip Replacement" name, Jim made a point of stopping and asking whether she approved. She said no but that she'd support it.

Or when she told Jim he should discount, after the first pitch. He disagrees, but she gets to make her case, and then in the second and third pitches he does discount. On that occasion she argued with passion, and she was listened to.

That she was right about discounting helped. With the name, it's not clear she was right because they'd already gone through scores of names and really had nothing else, and they had to move forward, and Susan didn't have a better name. Had they stuck with Zoe's title design and had a better photo, I think the name would have worked "ironically".
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Old 16-06-2011, 20:22
Jepson
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That she was right about discounting helped. With the name, it's not clear she was right because they'd already gone through scores of names and really had nothing else, and they had to move forward, and Susan didn't have a better name. Had they stuck with Zoe's title design and had a better photo, I think the name would have worked "ironically".
She also argued with Glen that one of the more action oriented shots would be better but he was having none of it.

So that was two key factors that would definitely have worked in their favour and one maybe - but I agree that, for the name, she didn't come up with anything better.
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Old 16-06-2011, 22:00
brangdon
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She also argued with Glen that one of the more action oriented shots would be better but he was having none of it.
Several people have said this. When did it happen? It wasn't during the photo shoot itself - there she is content to let Glenn pick the photos because she says she has no idea what's good and what isn't. Later was too late. She isn't present when Jim and Zoe make up the page, she is sent to research articles instead. By the time she gets back in the evening the photo print deadline is long gone.
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Old 17-06-2011, 08:25
Jepson
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Several people have said this. When did it happen?
When she was shooting the photographs.

I can only assume you watched a different edit because it was quite clear she was unhappy with the direction he was
going.
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Old 17-06-2011, 11:11
Radical Joe
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When she was shooting the photographs.

I can only assume you watched a different edit because it was quite clear she was unhappy with the direction he was
going.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...gazine_Launch/

The photoshoot is from 17:01-18:13.

Now, it's clear (from what she says to the models) that Susan wants them to show more activity and spontaneity, but I can't see her actually raising this with Glenn at all, never mind arguing with him over it.

I've said it before (when sticking up for Susan) that she has the right instincts, but, too often, dosen't have courage of her convictions.
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Old 17-06-2011, 11:26
Jepson
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...gazine_Launch/

The photoshoot is from 17:01-18:13.

Now, it's clear (from what she says to the models) that Susan wants them to show more activity and spontaneity, but I can't see her actually raising this with Glenn at all, never mind arguing with him over it.
No, you are absolutely correct.

I think that I, (and evidently some others) got the impression that there was some disagreement there because Glen seemed to want to hurry Susan up and she seemed intent on finishing her actions shoot. That and the fact that she was evidently going for something involving plenty of action and Glenn was just rejecting them one after another. Then Susan says she had no part in selecting the shot. (But does not specifically say her view was disregarded.)

It's fascinating that that somehow translated into a false memory of an actual spoken disagreement.
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Old 17-06-2011, 11:58
SillyBillyGoat
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Natasha is mouthy, but without managing to say anything particularly intelligent.
Big plate of blame! Lastminute.com!

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Old 17-06-2011, 12:50
manforktorch
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I won't disagree that Susan is often right, but saying she can't help it if people ignore her or disrespect her is a cop out. You can't control other peoples reactions to you, you can only modify your own interaction and leverage how people treat you as a result.

Susan isn't doing this and inevitably reverts to "that's so unfair!". Funnily enough she got Jim to stfu and made herself look good in the boardroom yet not doing this in tasks has probably made lordsralun wary of her.
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Old 17-06-2011, 13:02
Jepson
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I won't disagree that Susan is often right, but saying she can't help it if people ignore her or disrespect her is a cop out. You can't control other peoples reactions to you, you can only modify your own interaction and leverage how people treat you as a result.

Susan isn't doing this and inevitably reverts to "that's so unfair!". Funnily enough she got Jim to stfu and made herself look good in the boardroom yet not doing this in tasks has probably made lordsralun wary of her.
It's a pity that Sugar hasn't laid that on the line for her and highlighted it as an area where she needs to improve. He's done that successfully with other candidates in the past - admittedly getting them to quieten down rather than become more assertive.
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Old 17-06-2011, 20:36
brangdon
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It's fascinating that that somehow translated into a false memory of an actual spoken disagreement.
Indeed. That's one of the reasons I try to avoid calling candidates liars when they say something untrue in the boardroom. People do misremember conversations.
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Old 17-06-2011, 22:07
Vivacious Lady
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I also would not agree that Susan is quiet. Also although she seems to be often in the right, it is sometimes for fairly negative reasons - by her not agreeing with the others, rather than having a better idea. Nevertheless she has shown good business sense at times e.g. when negotiating on the canisters in the rubbish collecting task.

Nor do I think that Melody is particulary mouthy. If anything she has been disappointingly quiet recently after showing great potential at the start of the series.

Generally I really dislike Zoe. Her reaction to Susan is very personal and vindictive although I don't think Susan is victim material, I think she is tougher than she seems.

I'm not sure that Tom is safe. He just seems to be fairly ineffectual. Leon also .

Jim is far too aggressive and manipulative.

Natasha I'm not sure about - hated the magazine she produced this week

Helen is good though, and seems to be quiet but competent. I like her and for me she seems to be the best.
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