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Never thought I would say this but last night Susan was right!


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Old 16-06-2011, 12:31
tvtimes
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She objected to the name, she was right to do so.

She suggested a much better name something like 'Young at heart' that would have been more appropriate.

She was right about the photo for the front cover being the wrong one. The whole idea was to portray a more lively over 60 year old, and they went the completely wrong way about it.

There are loads of other suggestions she made but at the top of my head right now I can't remember all of them.
She really needs to get some balls about her because in the board room she gave as good as she got, why doesn't she do it when on tasks!?

For once I agree Susan did a good job and Jim was terrible. He went about everything the wrong way. The market was right, but was poorly executed and Susan knew it.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:34
Unigal07
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Susan was brilliant in the task and the boardroom on the programme last night. She is a little quiet and maybe could do with a little more confidence but that will come with age. She really showed them what she was made of.

She's a little annoying but she's got the capability.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:34
Shyguy1983
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Agree that she was right on those points.

On the name, she seemed to have lacked confidence after getting a hammering from the focus group with their suggestions. While she did make some suggestions she didn't seem to back herself up against Hip replacement.

On the photos, she again appeared to say she will defer to Glenn.

Don't think you mentioned not offering any discounts which was probably the biggest decision. She did appear to pitch better for this a lot more but Jim appeared too set in his ways to back track.

While I may be biased against her compared to others - she is certainly bright though at times. the thing that probably tends to turn me against her is her snide remarks when doing a talking head to the camera - or when things don't go her way. But again, the edit will likely pick up the more controversial/entertaining snippets.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:36
Elan Morin
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the problem for susan is that whenever she makes a suggestion or disagrees with something, the others in her group automatically ignore it.

Come the boardroom they always accuse of not contributing. Classic case is the naming o the magazine, taking pictures or even the negotiation for the first pitch when jim refused to negotiate.

Susan needs to be in other team
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:38
tvtimes
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Don't think you mentioned not offering any discounts which was probably the biggest decision. She did appear to pitch better for this a lot more but Jim appeared too set in his ways to back track.
Yeah that's another one. I can't remember them all, there was loads. I have been very critical of Susan on past tasks, but credit where credits due. She suggested good business decisions that showed good instinct but alas no one listened, and if they had, they would of won imo.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:46
apaul
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You did not need to be Einstein to realize that Hip Replacement was a duff idea. 99.99% of the population could tell you that. Susan was awful with the focus group and ineffectual in the photo shoot. Others were worse, but she was a very low rent Cassandra.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:58
NIKKID
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Susan needs to find her voice and learn to effectively get her message across.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:02
The Spoon
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Has The Mouse started roaring?

Tune in next week to find out.
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Old 16-06-2011, 13:46
Jepson
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the problem for susan is that whenever she makes a suggestion or disagrees with something, the others in her group automatically ignore it.

Come the boardroom they always accuse of not contributing. Classic case is the naming o the magazine, taking pictures or even the negotiation for the first pitch when jim refused to negotiate.
This is absolutely correct.

The problem for a lot of people here is that they just do not understand the dynamic involved.

They seem to think that there is something someone can do to force others to take notice of them. In reality there isn't. Certainly there are some tricks and techniques that you can learn to help make your voice heard but you need experience to learn those and there's no guarantee that anyone will have been in any situations where they needed to utilise them in the past.

I'd love to see how some of the armchair critics here would handle a situation where they were thrown into a peer group who resolutely refused to consider their ideas.

Would they scream and shout?
Would they punch someone?
Would they repeat their objections over and over again?
Would they cry?
Would they obstruct the task?
Would they get on with what they were asked to do and try and make their case in the boardroom?

Do they think they have a strategy for handling the situation that would work in every instance? Would it work with Sugar? Would it work with the haters here?
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:03
Miriam_R
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The problem for a lot of people here is that they just do not understand the dynamic involved.

They seem to think that there is something someone can do to force others to take notice of them. In reality there isn't. Certainly there are some tricks and techniques that you can learn to help make your voice heard but you need experience to learn those and there's no guarantee that anyone will have been in any situations where they needed to utilise them in the past.
True (in some aspect) if you're with a certain group of people who dislike you or have little regard for you opinion let alone your existence then, yes, nothing is going to make them listen to you (even if you say something valid).

But unfortuantely for Susan, that isn't going to wash in this process. She has to be bigger than these people and get through this wall of force that she seems to encounter most tasks as best she can. She's def tried to voice herslef, I'll give her that, but I think she can do it with even more determination as thus far done. If she keeps using this 'not being heard' excuse too much (like Tom does) then it will start to look more like her own weakness rather than others rude and dismissive attitude towards her.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:11
Jepson
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But unfortuantely for Susan, that isn't going to wash in this process. She has to be bigger than these people and get through this wall of force that she seems to encounter most tasks as best she can. She's def tried to voice herslef, I'll give her that, but I think she can do it with even more determination as thus far done. If she keeps using this 'not being heard' excuse too much (like Tom does) then it will start to look more like her own weakness rather than others rude and dismissive attitude towards her.
You might be correct but there are two things going in her favour:

1) When she was PM everyone - team members and outside observer - said she was a good PM who was very well organised and motivated her team. Plus she won.

2) Nick and Karen have been available to make sure that Sugar knows she's been right on the button on several occasions when her views have been steamrollered and that task has been lost.

Just out of interest, how would you handle the situation where you have a proven track record of spotting mistakes in tasks but your fellow team members wilfully insist on ignoring your input?

I'd be very interested to know how someone who transfers guilt from the people who are not acting cooperatively to the victim would handle themselves in a similar situation.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:14
-Sid-
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Susan was right to suggest reducing their rates.

But she was wrong about the magasine name. "Hip Replacement" would have worked if the "young at heart" theme had been pursued properly. The cover and the content were at odds with the magasine's title and that wasn't Zoe's fault, but Jim's.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:14
aussie_dave_
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I didnt realise Susan Ma's mum posted on these forums ......
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:17
anactoria
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Susan was really put in an impossible situation last night. Jim made it very clear to her & the other team members that he expected enthusiasm about the product, and so that was what she tried to give him; he then complained loudly in the boardroom that she hadn't voiced her objections enough.

With most candidates, what Susan did would have been viewed as the professional way to deal with things: she voiced her opinions and stated her disagreement with various decisions, but she was willing to support the product fully when the PM overrode her. If she had spent the entire task complaining, even after the decisions had been made, or if she had never brought up her issues with the name etc., her detractors might have a point; as it is, they're clutching at straws.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:20
Miriam_R
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Just out of interest, how would you handle the situation where you have a proven track record of spotting mistakes in tasks but your fellow team members wilfully insist on ignoring your input?

I'd be very interested to know how someone who transfers guilt from the people who are not acting cooperatively to the victim would handle themselves in a similar situation.
I would probably cry like Zoe did, lol.
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Old 16-06-2011, 14:21
anactoria
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Susan was right to suggest reducing their rates.

But she was wrong about the magasine name. "Hip Replacement" would have worked if the "young at heart" theme had been pursued properly. The cover and the content were at odds with the magasine's title and that wasn't Zoe's fault, but Jim's.
Hip Replacement would never have worked; the phrase is just too prosaic to serve as a pun. No matter what route they'd gone down, the title would always have summoned up images of literal hip replacement.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:05
SillyBillyGoat
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I didnt realise Susan Ma's mum posted on these forums ......
Wow, original!
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:34
wolvesdavid
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How long can Alan Sugar tolerate someone who has good ideas though but can't explain to other members of her team, why they are good ideas.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:35
Paace
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Yes, she was right but I'm sick to death of her whining in every programme . Is she to young to realise she's doing herself no favours with AS, Nick or Karen with all this whining, poor me.

If she is not able to stand up for herself, and put her ideas across so that others take them on board, then that is a major flaw in her character and something she needs to address, and stop all the whining.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:45
Jepson
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How long can Alan Sugar tolerate someone who has good ideas though but can't explain to other members of her team, why they are good ideas.
Well, if the other members of the team resolutely refuse to listen it tells us more about them than about her.

If she keeps on about some idea she will be accused of 'whining incessantly'.

Yes, she was right but I'm sick to death of her whining in every programme . Is she to young to realise she's doing herself no favours with AS, Nick or Karen with all this whining, poor me.

If she is not able to stand up for herself, and put her ideas across so that others take them on board, then that is a major flaw in her character and something she needs to address, and stop all the whining.
ROFLMAO!

It's all in the spin, though, isn't it?

To those who don't like here saying nothing is 'not standing up for herself' and standing up for herself is 'whining'.

Quite honestly I'm more fed up with people on here characterising her perfectly accurate attempts to explain what happened as 'whining'.

I wish they'd stop whining about it.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:46
anactoria
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Yes, she was right but I'm sick to death of her whining in every programme . Is she to young to realise she's doing herself no favours with AS, Nick or Karen with all this whining, poor me.

If she is not able to stand up for herself, and put her ideas across so that others take them on board, then that is a major flaw in her character and something she needs to address, and stop all the whining.
If Zoe and Jim aren't able to take others' ideas on board instead of ignoring and belittling them at every stage, that is a massive flaw on their parts, and something that definitely would not play in the real world.

As others have pointed out, what precisely was Susan supposed to do? When somebody has already shown that they have no interest in your contribution, there is actually very little you can do to make them pay attention, & in my opinion, her methods have already improved a lot since the early episodes. She declared her objections, but didn't try to force them through, instead agreeing to support the PM when he chose to ignore her opinions. It was pretty clear that Jim had no interest in listening to her, so instead of trying to force him to listen (which would have come across as whiny), she stepped back.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:49
LeoJoe6
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You did not need to be Einstein to realize that Hip Replacement was a duff idea. 99.99% of the population could tell you that. Susan was awful with the focus group and ineffectual in the photo shoot. Others were worse, but she was a very low rent Cassandra.
^^^^^^^^^
This so much.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:52
Paace
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If Zoe and Jim aren't able to take others' ideas on board instead of ignoring and belittling them at every stage, that is a massive flaw on their parts, and something that definitely would not play in the real world.

As others have pointed out, what precisely was Susan supposed to do? When somebody has already shown that they have no interest in your contribution, there is actually very little you can do to make them pay attention, & in my opinion, her methods have already improved a lot since the early episodes. She declared her objections, but didn't try to force them through, instead agreeing to support the PM when he chose to ignore her opinions. It was pretty clear that Jim had no interest in listening to her, so instead of trying to force him to listen (which would have come across as whiny), she stepped back.
I'm afraid there are loads like them in the real world. Its not just this task though that Susan has been whining, she's been doing it in every task she was in the losing team . Time for her to realise the flaw is with her.
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Old 16-06-2011, 15:52
wolvesdavid
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Well, if the other members of the team resolutely refuse to listen it tells us more about them than about her.

If she keeps on about some idea she will be accused of 'whining incessantly'.



ROFLMAO!

It's all in the spin, though, isn't it?

To those who don't like here saying nothing is 'not standing up for herself' and standing up for herself is 'whining'.

Quite honestly I'm more fed up with people on here characterising her perfectly accurate attempts to explain what happened as 'whining'.

I wish they'd stop whining about it.
But in last weeks task she didn't even know why she herself wanted to pay for the desks, never mind explain it to her two teammates.
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Old 16-06-2011, 16:21
tvtimes
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I didnt realise Susan Ma's mum posted on these forums ......
Was that aimed at me?
I said I had been critical of her on every other task. Just read my posts.
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