I diagree Tom is probably a good enough leader when working with decent people who respect his ideas, not a bunch of self-important wannabees all out for their own ends. This is a TV programme and not the real world. People who are rude, aggressive and vile to their colleagues do not do so well in the real world. I think Tom stands a very good chance. He must have a good business plan that's why he's still there. He and Helen are way ahead in my view.
Tom = Weak
2 of 2
Originally Posted by Leatherface!!!:
“Sorry but he is, he let our Queen Melody walk all over him.
Poor project Manger, might be a nice a bloke, but has no voice.”
“Sorry but he is, he let our Queen Melody walk all over him.
Poor project Manger, might be a nice a bloke, but has no voice.”
I agree. He may have invented many good things but he doesn't have a voice. He can not sell. Probably he has a good team to help him but last night he was on his own and he seemed lost.
Even when they were in the cars on their way to St Pancras, and talking about Tom being the only one that had not been PM and he sould be PM, he tried to avoid it: Has anybody else not been PM? and everybody went: NO!! I saw the fear in his face.
When he went to do the pitch to the big company he was useless.
Originally Posted by haphash:
“I diagree Tom is probably a good enough leader when working with decent people who respect his ideas, not a bunch of self-important wannabees all out for their own ends. This is a TV programme and not the real world. People who are rude, aggressive and vile to their colleagues do not do so well in the real world. I think Tom stands a very good chance. He must have a good business plan that's why he's still there. He and Helen are way ahead in my view.”
“I diagree Tom is probably a good enough leader when working with decent people who respect his ideas, not a bunch of self-important wannabees all out for their own ends. This is a TV programme and not the real world. People who are rude, aggressive and vile to their colleagues do not do so well in the real world. I think Tom stands a very good chance. He must have a good business plan that's why he's still there. He and Helen are way ahead in my view.”
I think you'll find that, in the real world, the people he'll be dealing and working with also have their own ideas and are just as egotistical (if not more so, having already 'succeded'), and will eager to have their own ideas put into practice.
In the real world, Tom would, IMO, be bulldozed as easily as he is on this show. He's a nice guy, but he's not nearly assertive enough.
Can you imagine if he made the final, and Sugar does his usual "you're both great candidates, it's so hard to choose between you" spiel, Tom would probably pipe up with "I know Lord Sugar, a quick game of Ip Dip Dog Sh*t, best of three, should sort it."
Originally Posted by Radical Joe:
“I think you'll find that, in the real world, the people he'll be dealing and working with also have their own ideas and are just as egotistical (if not more so, having already 'succeded'), and will eager to have their own ideas put into practice.
In the real world, Tom would, IMO, be bulldozed as easily as he is on this show. He's a nice guy, but he's not nearly assertive enough.
Can you imagine if he made the final, and Sugar does his usual "you're both great candidates, it's so hard to choose between you" spiel, Tom would probably pipe up with "I know Lord Sugar, a quick game of Ip Dip Dog Sh*t, best of three, should sort it."”
“I think you'll find that, in the real world, the people he'll be dealing and working with also have their own ideas and are just as egotistical (if not more so, having already 'succeded'), and will eager to have their own ideas put into practice.
In the real world, Tom would, IMO, be bulldozed as easily as he is on this show. He's a nice guy, but he's not nearly assertive enough.
Can you imagine if he made the final, and Sugar does his usual "you're both great candidates, it's so hard to choose between you" spiel, Tom would probably pipe up with "I know Lord Sugar, a quick game of Ip Dip Dog Sh*t, best of three, should sort it."”
Well I've never worked anywhere where being so transparently selfish (like Melody was) has endeared you to anyone. The people who are full of bullshine usually come unstuck sooner or later.
I still think that if Tom is 'the next Dyson' and has invented something really good Sugar will not pass up the chance to become a shareholder in his company.
Originally Posted by haphash:
“Well I've never worked anywhere where being so transparently selfish (like Melody was) has endeared you to anyone. The people who are full of bullshine usually come unstuck sooner or later.
I still think that if Tom is 'the next Dyson' and has invented something really good Sugar will not pass up the chance to become a shareholder in his company.”
“Well I've never worked anywhere where being so transparently selfish (like Melody was) has endeared you to anyone. The people who are full of bullshine usually come unstuck sooner or later.
I still think that if Tom is 'the next Dyson' and has invented something really good Sugar will not pass up the chance to become a shareholder in his company.”
Undoubtedly. That said, it's probably the biggest 'if' I've ever seen on this forum.
Originally Posted by Radical Joe:
“Undoubtedly. That said, it's probably the biggest 'if' I've ever seen on this forum.”
“Undoubtedly. That said, it's probably the biggest 'if' I've ever seen on this forum.”
I agree that it all comes down to how viable his business is. The whole premise of this series is completely different to the others. Its very hard for us to predict who will win because I don't think its really based on the tasks. Tom is probably on a shortlist of candidates with business plans that could work. Susan is probably on the shortlist too. It's dificult to judge some of the others because we don't know what plans they have put forward. IMO Helen is undoubtedly the most professional but we don't know if she has an idea that will work.
Tom was really poor last night. Ignoring the whole Melody is a cow smokescreen, the task was not only about picking a product but also about appropriate pitching. Tom went to the biggest pitch without any sort of a game plan. Frankly, they could have spent a bit of time working out how they were going to pitch the product to La Redoute rather than deciding on the way in the back of a taxi. It was then embarrassing when Tom suggested they order just 10 units - so roughly 1000 euros at cost (if not a lot less) for the 150 euro lamps. If he was referring to the postcards, then he's actually crazy.If La Redoute had accepted Tom's offer, Helen would still have won by 200,000+euros.
As for his getting no personal sales at all, that was really bad. Yes, Melody didn't give him any of the appointments but he could still have tried on the day getting some sales himself. Surely, he and Natasha were able just to walk into shops and show the product - it seemed they did this only right at the end. Also, he could have told Melody to give him and Natasha some of the appointments. It doesn't need to be aggressive, he could just have divided the appointments on location if nothing else.
Tom hasn't really had to do much up until now and I think he's been protected by people seeing him as a nice guy (which he probably is). But he didn't step up to the plate on the beauty task despite having invented beauty products in the past (didn't he design a mascara brush or something?) and last week he even criticised the team's newspaper during the pitch to a client. He clearly works best at the designing the product stage, rather than pitching it or being a leader. This may not be disastrous if he has an amazing invention for Sugar to invest in but it seems difficult to see how he will be the person to take it forward commercially without a lot of assistance.
As for his getting no personal sales at all, that was really bad. Yes, Melody didn't give him any of the appointments but he could still have tried on the day getting some sales himself. Surely, he and Natasha were able just to walk into shops and show the product - it seemed they did this only right at the end. Also, he could have told Melody to give him and Natasha some of the appointments. It doesn't need to be aggressive, he could just have divided the appointments on location if nothing else.
Tom hasn't really had to do much up until now and I think he's been protected by people seeing him as a nice guy (which he probably is). But he didn't step up to the plate on the beauty task despite having invented beauty products in the past (didn't he design a mascara brush or something?) and last week he even criticised the team's newspaper during the pitch to a client. He clearly works best at the designing the product stage, rather than pitching it or being a leader. This may not be disastrous if he has an amazing invention for Sugar to invest in but it seems difficult to see how he will be the person to take it forward commercially without a lot of assistance.
He has great common sense, great instinct and he thinks things through, which would make him an excellent business partner apart from the fact he a bit well....weedy and a walkover which pretty much erases all the good about him.
Originally Posted by .Lauren.:
“He has great common sense, great instinct and he thinks things through, which would make him an excellent business partner apart from the fact he a bit well....weedy and a walkover which pretty much erases all the good about him.”
“He has great common sense, great instinct and he thinks things through, which would make him an excellent business partner apart from the fact he a bit well....weedy and a walkover which pretty much erases all the good about him.”
Why? Why would a business partner want to walk all over you? Surely it would be in their best interests to work with you, and the fact that he is pleasant would make this easier rather than harder?
Even as project manager he was still the guy no-one listens to who doesn't enforce his ideas lol. He got away with that excuse in previous weeks but since he was PM that claim was seriously discredited.
He put up an unusually valiant effort in the boardroom, although it was rather funny to watch.
If Susan's the mouse that roared, then Tom's the mouse that growled.
He put up an unusually valiant effort in the boardroom, although it was rather funny to watch.
If Susan's the mouse that roared, then Tom's the mouse that growled.
Originally Posted by .Lauren.:
“He has great common sense, great instinct and he thinks things through, which would make him an excellent business partner apart from the fact he a bit well....weedy and a walkover which pretty much erases all the good about him.”
“He has great common sense, great instinct and he thinks things through, which would make him an excellent business partner apart from the fact he a bit well....weedy and a walkover which pretty much erases all the good about him.”
I thought the same until last night. But he made some decisions and allowed things to happen that showed a lack of common sense IMO.
Deciding to do 'paper scissors stone' to decide on a presentation is one thing, but to tell LS that is mad. It's just inviting ridicule.
Also, his allowing Melody's 'research to be the deciding factor in the product used was wrong. Either he knew she was doing it at a Metro station and should've noted that, or he didn't know, and the question has to be 'why not?'.
In addition, he allowed Melody to keep all the appointments she made, leaving him and Natasha (both non-French speakers) to drive around aimlessly all day looking for business.
And let's not forget him going into that major presentation without having the research on the store available. He should never have allowed that to happen. And he must have figured that they would want to buy more than ten units.
I still think he's a nice guy as a person, but up till last night I was unsure if he really had it in him to win this show. I know now the answer is NO.
Originally Posted by Menk:
“Why? Why would a business partner want to walk all over you? Surely it would be in their best interests to work with you, and the fact that he is pleasant would make this easier rather than harder?”
“Why? Why would a business partner want to walk all over you? Surely it would be in their best interests to work with you, and the fact that he is pleasant would make this easier rather than harder?”
What about competitors/buyers/sellers? He'll have to deal with them too, and they certainly wont take him being a pleasant sort of chap in the same way his friends might.
Tom was very poor last night and in other series that performance would certainly have got him fired. In fact in other series he would probably have been out the door in the first couple of weeks.
This is why I have a sneaking suspicion that he must have something good up his sleeve in the form of his business plan.
This is why I have a sneaking suspicion that he must have something good up his sleeve in the form of his business plan.
Originally Posted by Menk:
“Why? Why would a business partner want to walk all over you? Surely it would be in their best interests to work with you, and the fact that he is pleasant would make this easier rather than harder?”
“Why? Why would a business partner want to walk all over you? Surely it would be in their best interests to work with you, and the fact that he is pleasant would make this easier rather than harder?”
Because when it comes to facing companies, sellers and buyers, you do not want a pushover. They would easily exploit him because of his nature.
Although he would be easy to work with he may very well keep his mouth shut and not point out any errors especially if his business partner is 'bigger' than he is.
Originally Posted by ennui:
“I see him in quite the opposite way myself. It is interesting that he mentioned Dyson as a role model in the board room. I'm always totally in awe and convinced in Dyson's product placement and pitch, I always feel I need and want his products by the calm, good natured, thoughtful approach.. For me somebody like Melody is a complete turn off, a crashing titanic sales disaster, even if I went in to her shop to purchase an item her all out attack sales approach would make me just leave and try elsewhere. I don't get why people rate that vicious, aggressive sales attitude, because personally I NEVER buy from it.”
“I see him in quite the opposite way myself. It is interesting that he mentioned Dyson as a role model in the board room. I'm always totally in awe and convinced in Dyson's product placement and pitch, I always feel I need and want his products by the calm, good natured, thoughtful approach.. For me somebody like Melody is a complete turn off, a crashing titanic sales disaster, even if I went in to her shop to purchase an item her all out attack sales approach would make me just leave and try elsewhere. I don't get why people rate that vicious, aggressive sales attitude, because personally I NEVER buy from it.”
I agree totally - outside of 'Reality TV Shows' I just don't think loud-mouthed, bombastic, ego-crazed individuals with no integrity are actually very successful in life or business.
I believe some Entrepreneurs were just in the right place at the right time. But serial Entrepreneurs are usually likeable, thoughtful people. Probably the most successful - Richard Branson - is a great example.
I didn't agree with SurAlan's summary of Melody - there is a huge difference between being highly motivated & decisive and an ego-maniac!
So far, IMO, only Tom, Helen & to a degree Susie have demonstrated any ability to think through a business challenge & use some common-sense.
All the others have managed to do is show some sales ability (a good salesperson is not necessarily a good business person/manager though!), a lack of integrity, a mercenary streak & in most cases simply shouted everyone else down!
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“Tom is honest and has a lot of integrity. If he's invented, patented and sold his products successfully all on his own, and Lord Sugar is looking for an innovative business partner, then Tom is a contender. Perhaps not a winner, since he thought Melody's aggressiveness was supposed to be good (while he disapproved of Jim's similar disposition).”
“Tom is honest and has a lot of integrity. If he's invented, patented and sold his products successfully all on his own, and Lord Sugar is looking for an innovative business partner, then Tom is a contender. Perhaps not a winner, since he thought Melody's aggressiveness was supposed to be good (while he disapproved of Jim's similar disposition).”
Originally Posted by ennui:
“I see him in quite the opposite way myself. It is interesting that he mentioned Dyson as a role model in the board room. I'm always totally in awe and convinced in Dyson's product placement and pitch, I always feel I need and want his products by the calm, good natured, thoughtful approach.. For me somebody like Melody is a complete turn off, a crashing titanic sales disaster, even if I went in to her shop to purchase an item her all out attack sales approach would make me just leave and try elsewhere. I don't get why people rate that vicious, aggressive sales attitude, because personally I NEVER buy from it.”
“I see him in quite the opposite way myself. It is interesting that he mentioned Dyson as a role model in the board room. I'm always totally in awe and convinced in Dyson's product placement and pitch, I always feel I need and want his products by the calm, good natured, thoughtful approach.. For me somebody like Melody is a complete turn off, a crashing titanic sales disaster, even if I went in to her shop to purchase an item her all out attack sales approach would make me just leave and try elsewhere. I don't get why people rate that vicious, aggressive sales attitude, because personally I NEVER buy from it.”
Agree with both posts.
Tom might be an einzelgänger and working best on his own, not being distracted by teammembers who aren't teamplayers. He does not seem to possess a natural leadership, but I'm sure he's charming and soft-mannered in his dealings with other business people and I'm also sure that they would find it difficult to be ruthless in return to someone who behaves in a decent and 'nice' way.
In that respect he could as well be LS's business partner as someone else, but only if he was allowed to do things his own way.
Yeah, he pretty much proved he's not cut out for Sir Alan, he let the others walk all over him and the rock, paper, scissors to decide who does the pitch thing was rediculous. I will be surprised if he gets to the final. Nice guy but not cut out for business.
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“Tom is honest and has a lot of integrity. If he's invented, patented and sold his products successfully all on his own, and Lord Sugar is looking for an innovative business partner, then Tom is a contender. Perhaps not a winner, since he thought Melody's aggressiveness was supposed to be good (while he disapproved of Jim's similar disposition).”
“Tom is honest and has a lot of integrity. If he's invented, patented and sold his products successfully all on his own, and Lord Sugar is looking for an innovative business partner, then Tom is a contender. Perhaps not a winner, since he thought Melody's aggressiveness was supposed to be good (while he disapproved of Jim's similar disposition).”
Originally Posted by Menk:
“AS has said he's not looking for a sales person this time. To my mind, an inventor is exactly what he's got in mind - and I don't think he'll have to deal with many Melodys once he gets the job.”
“AS has said he's not looking for a sales person this time. To my mind, an inventor is exactly what he's got in mind - and I don't think he'll have to deal with many Melodys once he gets the job.”
Originally Posted by Jepson:
“Tom may be a bit hopeless in TA style compressed time scale tasks but in the real world he would perform a lot better because he's clearly the type of person who thinks things through and makes considered decisions.
He was back footed by the nature of the tasks that don't allow him to give things the thought needed.
In the real world of business you more often need people who think things through a lot more often than you need 'on-the-spot' blaggers. I think that's why AS let him stay.”
“Tom may be a bit hopeless in TA style compressed time scale tasks but in the real world he would perform a lot better because he's clearly the type of person who thinks things through and makes considered decisions.
He was back footed by the nature of the tasks that don't allow him to give things the thought needed.
In the real world of business you more often need people who think things through a lot more often than you need 'on-the-spot' blaggers. I think that's why AS let him stay.”
Originally Posted by haphash:
“I agree that it all comes down to how viable his business is. The whole premise of this series is completely different to the others. Its very hard for us to predict who will win because I don't think its really based on the tasks. Tom is probably on a shortlist of candidates with business plans that could work. Susan is probably on the shortlist too. It's dificult to judge some of the others because we don't know what plans they have put forward. IMO Helen is undoubtedly the most professional but we don't know if she has an idea that will work.”
“I agree that it all comes down to how viable his business is. The whole premise of this series is completely different to the others. Its very hard for us to predict who will win because I don't think its really based on the tasks. Tom is probably on a shortlist of candidates with business plans that could work. Susan is probably on the shortlist too. It's dificult to judge some of the others because we don't know what plans they have put forward. IMO Helen is undoubtedly the most professional but we don't know if she has an idea that will work.”
Agree with all above. This is a tv show & if AS is going to invest in a company - it has to have a good business plan and idea and I think that is what saved Tom. I think away from a tv competition he would go with his instinct and wouldn't be undermined so badly as he was last night.
Sugar is probably reading all these posts, and the only reason he has not gotten rid of Tom is because he has read all the "We really like Tom, he is so sweet, we just wanna hug him" posts. He is a bit of a nerdy character and I think some people probably tune in to watch his peculiar habits.
Same with Jedi Jim. He puts the act on which pulls the punters in and higher ratings for Sugar. If Sugar really thought Jim was manipulative and what not, he would have sacked him last week instead of Glenn.
Same with Jedi Jim. He puts the act on which pulls the punters in and higher ratings for Sugar. If Sugar really thought Jim was manipulative and what not, he would have sacked him last week instead of Glenn.
Originally Posted by spoonfulofsense:
“Why can't people just have a sense of how you should respect someone and why when you have a w*nker or w*nkerette, like Melody, in your face why should you have to stoop to their level of w*nkership?”
“Why can't people just have a sense of how you should respect someone and why when you have a w*nker or w*nkerette, like Melody, in your face why should you have to stoop to their level of w*nkership?”
Tom didn't need to be a w*nker, or disrespectful. He just needed to be firm but fair. Melody was wrong. If he can't stand up to that when, as PM, he has full authority to do so, then he has a real problem. Notice that Natasha also suffered because he didn't put his foot down.
I reckon he needs a business partner who "gets" him and who can drive the business forward while Tom remains the ideas man. In fact, he should get together with Helen; they'd do brilliantly (and have babies that are both beautiful and smart).
Originally Posted by mimi123456:
“Sugar is probably reading all these posts, and the only reason he has not gotten rid of Tom is because he has read all the "We really like Tom, he is so sweet, we just wanna hug him" posts. He is a bit of a nerdy character and I think some people probably tune in to watch his peculiar habits.
Same with Jedi Jim. He puts the act on which pulls the punters in and higher ratings for Sugar. If Sugar really thought Jim was manipulative and what not, he would have sacked him last week instead of Glenn.”
“Sugar is probably reading all these posts, and the only reason he has not gotten rid of Tom is because he has read all the "We really like Tom, he is so sweet, we just wanna hug him" posts. He is a bit of a nerdy character and I think some people probably tune in to watch his peculiar habits.
Same with Jedi Jim. He puts the act on which pulls the punters in and higher ratings for Sugar. If Sugar really thought Jim was manipulative and what not, he would have sacked him last week instead of Glenn.”
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this series was filmed late last year...
Originally Posted by Radical Joe:
“Tom would probably pipe up with "I know Lord Sugar, a quick game of Ip Dip Dog Sh*t, best of three, should sort it."”
“Tom would probably pipe up with "I know Lord Sugar, a quick game of Ip Dip Dog Sh*t, best of three, should sort it."”
This is the best laugh I've had all day!!
2 of 2
