To save the effort of searching lots of threads I thought for those interested in going Freesat+ a thread just listing the pro's and con's of the only two contenders....

Humax Plus Points

Proven Track Record.

Ability to copy most recordings off box to be viewed on a PC.

Third party programs can be loaded to enable ftp and other features.

Fairly responsive menus

Easy access to media library and recording schedule while watching live tv or playing back a recording.

While watching live TV if both tuners are needed to make recordings it will give you an on screen warning asking you to manage conflict.

Manual Timer Option

Option to set recording padding time.

Humax Minus Points

Near Life Cycle End.

Remote control could be better.

Samsung Plus Points

At life cycle start

Faster access to guide as it does not wait to load a fresh copy to load.

Youtube access (not in HD however).

1080p output.

DLNA Player for audio and some video formats from local network.

Chunky Remote.

Samsung Minus Points

Recordings can not be copied from internal drive.

USB External hard drives not supported, just flash memory cards.

Some delay/lag loading guide or recording library after you have pressed the button on the remote.

No indication in library of new recordings if in a series folder.

No indication of free/used disc space in library view.

No other functions are available while playing back a recording or viewing library, just silence.

Series folders do not auto delete if folder is empty.

If you are watching live TV and both tuners are required to make recordings it just changes channel with no warning.

No option to skip the channel genre screen when loading guide.

Jump forward and back times locked to +1min -15seconds.

No manual timer option.

No option to set padding times.


Both products have a lot of features in common e.g. low power standby and of course the items above will not be all plus and minus points.

Automan.

I guess this list is a moving target if/when Samsung update their software? Or have people given up on that?

Also, for me, reliability trumps pretty much everything else! YMMV

Anyway automan...

What about Echostar?
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=134

What about Panasonic?
http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.p...onic-dmr-xs380
http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.p...onic-dmr-bs780

I'll forgive you for ignoring the Grundig/Goodmans/Sagem end of the market

Cheers,
David.

Some other possible points to consider.

Using box with single cable connections (handy for communal dish locations with only a single connection)

Foxsat can use both tuners on a single cable. Samsung ? - Some can't get a second cable

Foxsat can use multiple lnbs (diseqc). Samsung ?

Foxsat can drive a motorised dish (usals). Samsung ?

Good points,

Samsung supports a single cable mode but no idea how well it works.

Samsung has no motorised dish control options.

Re the Echostar box, it is only worth paying the extra cash if you want the extra features it offers...

The Harvard boxes are also in a league of their own

Panasonic ones are also a lot more cash but may be a valid purchase if you do not already have a Blu-Ray player.

Also I have no first hand knowledge of the Echostar, Harvard or Panasonic products.

Automan.

Being an owner of a Harvard product, I'd wholly recommend avoiding any first hand knowledge . The user interface is very friendly and easy to use. In theory it would make a great PVR for someone who just wants to record and watch, with no need for more exotic features. Trouble is, it's just plain unreliable as soon as you start to give it a real workload of recordings. Harvard don't seem to care about providing any updates to sort out the box, which is a real shame as it could be perfect as a straightforward PVR for the less demanding consumer.

Cheers
MarkA

i cant believe nobody has mentioned recording from the buffer in this thread yet.

Indeed, the Samsung can record from the beginning a program that has already started (assuming you have been watching that channel since the program started).

It will even offer to record the series or HD version if applicable.

A Samsung negative I forgot to mention is that from Library planed recordings, no program information is available (other than name, channel and date/time).

One more negative....
Search for a program from Guide only lets you do a day at a time rather than the next seven days.

Thus if you want to search for Robocop and you don't know which day it starts up to seven slow searches may be required versus one pretty fast one on the Humax.

Automan.

You mean the difference between "Live pause" (as per the Humax) and "Live rewind" (do any freesat PVRs have this)?

I think he is after the point that the Samsung box lets you save the buffer.

The Humax does not.

Automan.

thats correct, i mentioned it because people are always moaning about the humax not being able to record from the buffer.

i have the echostar and that can record from the buffer, but i must admit i don't use it much, but i do use the live rewind quite a bit it works really well and is very useful, and having the option to record it is a bonus if needed.

You can get the Subtitles up with just one button press on the Humax.
If your watching live TV.

Dave on a Foxsat-hdr you can rewind back to any point up to the start of the buffer file (0.ts) , what you can't do is then press record and record from that point.

Using the modified firmware though you can transfer the 0.ts file to a PC so effectively recording the buffer.

Have they now fixed the jumping back to live when the programme ends so we can actually use this facility?

Caveat: This is hidden and hence unsupported functionality on Foxsat.

afaik it only happens if you are recording the content as well as time shifting. In this case yes it still does, no biggie though just watch the recording 30 seconds or more behind real time.

So, when phone/doorbell rings/child calls urgently, I need to determine whether I (or someone else in the household) is recording what I'm watching (must also be careful not to press Guide button when checking because this will clear buffer). I then need to choose whether to use pause or switch to another channel so programme doesn't continue in background while I'm distracted. Then I can safely deal with the interruption.
Just admit it. the Foxsat does NOT have a functional Live Pause or Live Rewind facility.

Where does guide come into the equation, you can press guide as many times as you want while recording whether or not you are viewing the same content. It merely loads the cached epg from where you can see what's recording (and set additional reservations if you wish), pressing schedule or info will also give you the same details. It has no effect on the buffer.

I repeat if you are not recording the live pause and time shift works the same as an other pvr except you can't record from the point you rewind to. If you are recording and pause the video and don't happen to get back to real time before the programme ends then you lose the end in timeshift it's still there on the recording.

Before posting you ought to at least get your facts straight. Getting to the stage where I refuse to answer your posts which are clearly designed merely to snipe.

Unlike this rubbish at least I post facts (bad or good).

You miss the point: how do I know whether I'm recording or not? I have to look, or maybe you think I can use some kind of ESP?
But maybe you should learn to read before responding so vitriotically to mere asides in a post.

Most of us have the wit to know what our boxes are going to record. As I already said a million times I press schedule after booting the box to have a look.

It's easy enough to see if you are recording on the Foxsat,look for the recording icon on it's LED screen.or even easier press (i) on the remote and the info as to what you are recording appears to the top left of the TV screen!!

Just press Pause. OK if it is being recorded then it will jump back to live when the programme ends but you will have the recording of it to catch up. Clunky but not a show-stopper. Just out of interest how many times do people get interrupted while watching a programme live which they are recording?

That statement clearly demonstrates a common flaw of many posters here - you naively assume everyone is just like you . I live in a household of five people: all have access to the Foxsat and I haven't personally turned it on since I first got it, though I do now ensure I put it on standby overnight due to other issues.

Just to clarify, Graham's assertion that it only ever occurs when recording is not 100% accurate. Recording(s) due to start after the current programme.can also cause it to jump out of playback; and I'm not even sure adding that one is sufficient to cover all possible failure scenarios.
But to answer your question about how often it is an issue: thankfully, not too often Which is probably why the box is still in one piece.

Test 1

Started recording BBC1-HD and More 4 to commit both tuners to recording.

Tuned to E4 and paused 3 minutes before programme due to finish at 11:17 (Gilmore Girls). Came back at 11:25. Playback buffer is intact to current time so no loss of programme end. Now to try watching a channel with one tuner fully committed and a recording from a different transponder to the one I am watching set to follow.

Test 2

ITV3 tied up to record to 12:30 recording Poirot (10906V), ITV2 set to record from 12:00 (10758V).

Tuned to BBC2 and live paused at 11:54. At 12:00 at start of recording on ITV3 box changed to ITV3 and buffer is lost. The buffer as expected starts recording the channel you are now watching. I imagine this will affect any pvr (it certainly does the Topfield 5800) so it can't be said to be a Humax problem.

I suspect that if the follow up recording is from a transponder as the currently viewed channel or the transponder currently being used for the continuing recording you won't lose the channel you are viewing or it's buffer. This will be unique to pvrs like the Humax that can view a 3rd channel while viewing two which may well include the Samsung - More testing required Test 1 certainly indicates this ought to work.