well, it wasn't that bad (hence mean rather than something stronger) but he was talking generally about what they were doing in a sort of animated and pleased way and lord shugs said something about helen speaking and she made some comment like yeah i would like to speak now. i thought it was uncalled for and detracted from how well they worked together - apart from her v patronising comment about trusting him with the branding as if he was useless and only she could deliver.

Tom needs management and Helen provided good management. Together they worked very well.

I think that there are more people who could have done Helen's role than there are for Tom's.

She was very good, but that was basic business really - it is expected. Tom's creativity is rarer.

When he said this I thought, why don't you go for PM!!! It would have been a perfect opportunity for him to redeem himself for the Paris task.

Overall I think they worked well together. I think, as ever, Helen managed well and Tom put forward ideas that worked in this task (aside from the nationality query on the headlining pie, ha). From my point of view they both seemed to be thinking about the numbers, so, I don't think I would just credit Tom on that part. I think he did well with the name though and alright with the look of the venue too. The food looked appealing to eat (unlike the other teams') and the service was good too. They worked well together to my mind.

I think they worked very well together.

Helen being basic business to manage Tom? That's nonsense to be blunt. Melody couldn't, Zoe couldn't, Vincent certainly couldn't and overlooked him so far that he was staring into Spaceman Jim, Felicity couldn't. Helen does well to utilise and compliment Tom's strengths and that surpasses the basics. Have they ever lost together? - Serious question. I think the closest time that you have a point here is when Natasha lead the freemium lads mag because (rightfully so) Helen initially thought it was tasteless, even though she ultimately did contribute.

A lot of people seem to have thought this, am I the only one that thought Helen meant that as project manager she felt that she should be a part of the branding, due to the importance of it, rather than handing the responsibility down to Tom and letting him take the blame if it went wrong? To me it didn't seem to be like she was trying to be patronising but given the sheer number of people who think otherwise I'm probably wrong

Overall though I think they worked very well together and was glad they won as I wanted to see them both in the final.

Fairly aggresive tone there!

I hadn't considered her management of Tom, she did do well although a person with good management skills would. Of the people you listed I think we can agree none were good managers. Neither were they as creative as Tom.

My point was that Tom is more of a rarity than Helen. That's not to take anything away from her, she is good. But there aren't many with experience of developing products and bringing them to market.

I don't know where you're hearing this aggressive tone, but whatever, A strength is only any good to anyone who can apply it, no matter how uncommon it is. I'm addressing what you said previously. Mainly the second line. I don't understand how you suddenly expected Tom to be managed perfectly by Helen, being that she's one of the very few who can work well with him, but yet not give her any more than "basic" credit and have her contribution as "expected" to the extent that anyone can do it. It's contradictory and confusing. There's obviously good teamwork and chemistry at the very least, or much above "basic" leadership by Helen.

I didn't expect Tom to be managed so well by Helen (perfectly is a bit strong) and that is to her credit.

I also gave her credit for doing the costs and margins, but that is, in my opinion, just basic business. It should be expected of a candidate on the show, which is why the other team were rightfully slated by LS.

My point is that there are very few people like Tom who have that level of creativity but also some business acumen to bring it to market. I'm not writing to discredit Helen, she is good - I'm saying LS is less likely to come across another Tom.

I'm hoping there was some irony in your first line.

However, I'm not addressing what you expected. I'm addressing what you said previously. This belief of what you consider "basic" is clearly not what is being shown. Many have tried, failed, overlooked, or taken advantage of Tom... even if to their deficit.


Costs and margins, what Helen displayed not needing to feed too much from Tom obviously has very little to do with what I'm saying here. Utilizing, considering and putting forth successful, winning contributions in a team of two, or at least making the most of what Tom himself brings isn't "basic" at all. Otherwise everyone would have been able to do it. And of all this time, to say it is "expected" of anyone would be ludicrous unless you're Mystic Meg or have seen that they work well together. You're deciding to overlook that with what I'm addressing.


OK, well that's great, I noticed you say this. You're probably correct here, but again, it has little to do with what I'm saying to you.

I'm not sure how to make this clearer, I'd said her handle on the costs was basic business, not her management of Tom.

Clearly we are on two different pages here.

it's always daft to have a PM and worker on a two person task. I think you have to co-pm the task, just one person just gets a little bit more authority and final say, so as to have one vision.

think they both worked great, and it was a very good joint effort. It helped that they seemed to get along, nothing is worse than being in a task where you really hate someone and you're forced to work with them, like the other team did.

I was inclined to say that for costing just do cost+ pricing, whatever it costs, whack on 50% more to make the final price, but then I realised that a hidden part of the task must've been that they were given a set RRP.. I think it was 3.95 which wasn't stated on TV [at least from 95% of the bits I watched]

I don't know if Jim was responsbile for this, or whether was the air of mustrust going on and it was Natasha and Susan's fault, but the bad air really ruined it, and Natasha may have felt shafted and decided not to put in her input in the task.

I think that really cost Natasha the final 4 becasue she was thinking like a worker and not an entreprenuer, she didn't seize control or at least contribution, and was happy to tag along and "do what pm wanted her to do", which is far to late in the game to play. At these stages everyone needs to be their own PM and play an active role

I agree with this. Regardless of who Lord Sugar decides to go into business with, I think he'll have missed a trick if he lets Tom get away. He's an intelligent ideas man who can think in an original way, and that's not a skill that can be taught.

Tom hasn't performed well when surrounded by noise and dissent - but take away the toxic characters and given a project manager who knows how far to let his creativity run, and his input can be terrific.

On the business projections, credit to both of them - it was clear from the final 5 programme last week that Tom has been doing the figures on every task so far, though we've seen only a few examples of this, presumably due to the editing and the fact that some of his PMs haven't seen the value. Credit to Helen too - as PM she saw the value, and both were word perfect in covering it in the pitch.

Helen and Tom really sparked off each other, a great team performance.

Agreed, I thought they both contributed equally and made a great team - if I was Lordsurallen I'd be tempted to hire them both, Tom to run with creativity and Helen to provide the guiding hand and strong back up

It wouldn't surprise me if Helen wins and the business is driving forward one of Tom's ideas.

That seems infinitely sensible to me.

Helen is an excellent manager and if there were to be a final task she would wipe the floor with any of the remaining candidates. Tom and Jim are hopeless PMs and Susan is immature and would have to have to work with returning candidates who don't like her. However, Sugar has already identified beauty as an area where you can flog cheap products for a high margin so no doubt the 'process' will be massaged to get the result he wants.

I agree. They each have the strengths that the other lacks, and would, indeed, make a dream team.

I thought they worked well together and looked as if they enjoyed the task. Perhaps Tom was happy to let Helen be PM because of the previous task.

I thought it was a really good team effort, with their different skills complementing each other. Tom has a lot going for him, which hasn't come out so well on previous tasks,IMHO due to the bigger egos jostling for position. I think Lord Sugar has picked up on this and that's why he's in the final.

Tom had the big ideas..the one that won the task. The branding i.e. the name and slogan. His concept of naming the pies after British figures. They both didnt realise Colombus wasnt British. Tom served the food in record quick time. When asked about summer time, it was Tom who stepped in and gave the answer of Pork pies.

I think it was Helen that did all the costing, she made the pies, and came up with the idea of a smaller pie for women.

Out of the seven point they earned, I think tom probably earned 4 of them.

Helen did what she does well, organise. Being a good organiser doesnt make you a good businessman.

I'm assuming that Tom did the costing too, since we've seen him doing it in quite a few tasks. But Helen was probably in charge of the smooth running and devising the system for the trial run.

I entirely agree.