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Susan Ma - She stole the idea?
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Tourista
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Zippy289:
“I didn't get that line of Margaret's questioning. Surely they weren't employees at all, since she simply hired them for one event? In effect they were therefore freelancers and should sort out their own tax affairs.”

That is what was said exactly.

Event staff, if not agency employed, have traditionally been paid in cash.
Cherrybomber
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Tourista:
“Where does it say anywhere that Susan isnt paying tax on her takings, because if you can find it a link would be useful.”

Quite right. She paid her staff cash in hand.
Her business is registered and she will submit accounts and pay tax.
People have either deliberately or through lack of attention, misunderstood the tax enquiry.
Tourista
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“Quite right. She paid her staff cash in hand.
Her business is registered and she will submit accounts and pay tax.
People have either deliberately or through lack of attention, misunderstood the tax enquiry.”

I have highlighted the most likely reason.
Sandgrownun
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by dizzyrascal:
“Yes, she told Margaret Mountford in last night's show.”

No she didn't. She said she got the idea to sell skin cream while working doing it for someone else. She didn't say she nicked their products. You might as well argue that whoever she was working for stole the idea from The Body Shop.
Sara Webb
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Tourista:
“I have highlighted the most likely reason.”

Agreed.
dizzyrascal
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“I take it you have a degree. A full time student? Maybe she made use of the 3 days a week that students have spare to watch countdown, get lashed and break windows in the city.”

Yes I have 2 and although it is possible that she had some unused time I did not get that impression from Susan. She said she had worked hard on her degree
andallthatjazz
18-07-2011
OP you're so naive....all the big players out there steal ideas from each other!

The difference comes down to the finished product which each company (L'Oreal, Lauder, Clinique, Gatineau, Decleor, etc) claims a better product...not idea BUT product/result.

Susan made her own product with her own combined thought ingredients.
Sara Webb
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by dizzyrascal:
“Yes I have 2 and although it is possible that she had some unused time I did not get that impression from Susan. She said she had worked hard on her degree”

Presumably neither being in business related subjects?
Sigurd
18-07-2011
This is the website for Susan Ma's business:

http://www.tropicskincare.com/

Yes, she's selling cosmetics, and no, she's not the first to do so. However, there can't be many completely unique products that have never been on the market before. If someone wants to start up a pizza business, should they be prevented from doing so because others have done it before them?
googleking
18-07-2011
I'm not personally impressed by Susan at all, but to be fair, most business is based on "stolen" ideas and skills!
dizzyrascal
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Sara Webb:
“Presumably neither being in business related subjects? ”

No so it is lucky that I run my own small business.
Zoltan Smith
18-07-2011
Susan was exposed as a BS merchant and a clueless chancer last night.
Sigurd
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by googleking:
“I'm not personally impressed by Susan at all, but to be fair, most business is based on "stolen" ideas and skills!”

She's young, has some daft ideas and often talks utter nonsense, but nevertheless I think she has great potential as an entrepreneur, and probably more than any of the other candidates. Her youth and naivety quite rightly told against her in the competition, but I think that Sugar's comments about keeping in touch with her showed that he saw her talent, raw though it still is.
Menk
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Sigurd:
“This is the website for Susan Ma's business:

http://www.tropicskincare.com/

Yes, she's selling cosmetics, and no, she's not the first to do so. However, there can't be many completely unique products that have never been on the market before. If someone wants to start up a pizza business, should they be prevented from doing so because others have done it before them?”

Reading through the testamonials on her website - every single one of them reads as though it were written by Susan Ma!
Sigurd
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Menk:
“Reading through the testamonials on her website - every single one of them reads as though it were written by Susan Ma! ”

What a thing to suggest!

Admittedly some of them do have a hysterically enthusiastic note that sounds a little like Miss Ma herself, though! Can customers really become so wildly excited about a simple moisturising cream or something?

http://www.tropicskincare.com/static/Testimonials
RugbySpur
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by trollface:
“No it wouldn't.



Anyone can make a knock-off of anything else. You can patent an ingredient, but you can't patent or copyright a recipe.

All of which is irrelevant, because there's absolutely no indication that she "copied" anything other than the idea of selling on a market stall.”

I believe you have this the wrong way round. I work as a formulator albeit not in cosmetics but principles are the same. It's doubtful the creams she used to sell were patented as you have to jump through a lot of hoops to prove they are novel. The formula may have copyright. In which case susan would have a case to answer IF she copied the formulation exactly. You can't patent or copyright raw materials/ ingredients as they are usually commonly available things. You can however patent a formulation, if you can show novelty, as the formula is what makes it "special"
Cressida
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Sigurd:
“What a thing to suggest!

Admittedly some of them do have a hysterically enthusiastic note that sounds a little like Miss Ma herself, though! Can customers really become so wildly excited about a simple moisturising cream or something?

http://www.tropicskincare.com/static/Testimonials”

It would surely depend on the state of someone's skin before they tried the product. Your observations indicate you might not be female but be assured there'd be no skin cream sold anywhere to anyone if it didn't have an affect that was to the purchaser’s liking.
Menk
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by RugbySpur:
“I believe you have this the wrong way round. I work as a formulator albeit not in cosmetics but principles are the same. It's doubtful the creams she used to sell were patented as you have to jump through a lot of hoops to prove they are novel. The formula may have copyright. In which case susan would have a case to answer IF she copied the formulation exactly. You can't patent or copyright raw materials/ ingredients as they are usually commonly available things. You can however patent a formulation, if you can show novelty, as the formula is what makes it "special"”

Yes - this makes more sense.
Menk
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Cressida:
“It would surely depend on the state of someone's skin before they tried the product. Your observations indicate you might not be female but be assured there'd be no skin cream sold anywhere to anyone if it didn't have an affect that was to the purchaser’s liking.”

I don't really agree with this - I think moisturising is mostly a habit, or rather, the effect which it most notably has is that it makes the skin feel less tight than when no moisturiser is used. That effect can be gained by the cheapest of moisturisers, but most women buy much more expensive moisturisers - for example spending ten times as much, but without ten times more noticable difference.
Paace
18-07-2011
Sorry but I do not believe that Susan made a £1000 selling her stuff in a weekend which is I presume Sat and Sun. These markets are only open for a set number of hours and there is no way she could have made a £1000 profit, even I doubt turnover.
Cressida
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Menk:
“I don't really agree with this - I think moisturising is mostly a habit, or rather, the effect which it most notably has is that it makes the skin feel less tight than when no moisturiser is used. That effect can be gained by the cheapest of moisturisers, but most women buy much more expensive moisturisers - for example spending ten times as much, but without ten times more noticable difference.”

There's ungents and skin creams on the market at much higher prices than Susan's.

Susan's products are not overly expensive but as they are available to purchase on line she's been able to increase her customer base by making them available to a wider market.
CaroUK
18-07-2011
Have you ever been to Greenwich market???

I have (used to live close by) and trust me it is a very busy market with a very high footfall both from tourists and from locals coming down for Sunday breakfast/brunch/ lunch. The same traders are in the same general area of the market week after week and the good pitches in the covered area and the site next to the cinema) don't come cheap. Its a very busy and popular market for both buying and selling - and there are a lot of local residents who go for the whole natural beauty products/ organic cotton clothing/ handmade jewellery/ home made sweets type of stall.

With quality products and a good saleswoman - it is QUITE conceivable that Susan could TAKE £1000 in a weekend and even MAKE £1000 on a busy summer weekend or during holiday periods.

As LS pointed out on the beauty treatments task, there is a huge markup on these products
brangdon
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by Takae:
“ I haven't heard of that. A senior sales account manager at a company I worked for recently went independent and took three sales staff members with her, and convinced six major accounts to switch from her former employer to her own company. A book editor left for a rival publisher and took three authors with her. An agent went independent and twelve clients followed him.

I would have thought you knew this as it happens almost all the time in the design, advertising, publishing and marketing industries.”

In many industries, the companies put specific non-competition clauses into contracts to prevent it happening. If you have such clauses you have to be very careful when striking out on your own not to get sued by your old company. (It's something my father went through - he was an estate agent. He didn't get sued but he did have to be careful.)

Obviously Susan's employer didn't have any such protection. And probably she didn't have any protection from the students she hired copying her business model either. She just hoped and trusted they wouldn't.

I think anyone entering into business with Susan in future would be well advised to get their legal protections in place first.
Cressida
18-07-2011
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“In many industries, the companies put specific non-competition clauses into contracts to prevent it happening. If you have such clauses you have to be very careful when striking out on your own not to get sued by your old company. (It's something my father went through - he was an estate agent. He didn't get sued but he did have to be careful.)

Obviously Susan's employer didn't have any such protection. And probably she didn't have any protection from the students she hired copying her business model either. She just hoped and trusted they wouldn't.

I think anyone entering into business with Susan in future would be well advised to get their legal protections in place first.”

Susan said how much it cost to have products monitered by a chemist. Nothing came out at the interview stage that she hadn't done as she said so it's pure speculation that she hadn't done what's required.
Zoltan Smith
18-07-2011
if she was making say a £3 margin per product (taking into account packaging etc and petrol) she would need to sell 150 items each day.

one item every 3 minutes for 8 hours each day sat and sunday
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