Stalin was born in 1878 at which point Georgia had been part of the Russian Empire for more than 70 years. It could be argued therefore that while he was Georgian by ethnicity he was Russian by nationality. He certainly acted against anything he saw as Georgian nationalism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Affair

Ease is relative. The same questioner was not seen making the same request to Susan, Tom, and least of all to Jim. I suspect the questioner wanted to know, did Helen ever let her hair down.

This she clearly did at YF. She is so unobsessed with vanity, so focused on success she could not remember her own birthday right. Her dedication earns my respect, but there may be some who will see it as aloofness and lack of empathy for ordinary mortals.

That is actually weird. If I had a daughter like that, OMG I would be more than upset. I mean, parents spent so much money for the university degree and she ended up wanting to become a waitress?

Indeed we don't!

Aussie-dave, your attitude is astounding quite frankly. You seem to considered EAs/PAs to be dimwitted creatures.

We're not.

We're highly skilled and highly organised. And we know pretty much everything that's going on within our organisation.

Be careful wherever you work... EAs/PAs are the eyes and ears of the head honcho!

Waitressing was obviously a fill in while she decided what to do next - as it was it led to her role at Greggs.
Also Helen would have finished studying ten years ago - her parents didn't necessarily contribute anything financially.

True, we already had at least two other girls on the apprentice (Melody and Sara) who had law degrees but went into a different direction.

Personally, I think it has to do with the fact that a law degree doesn´t have much meaning (at least in my country). It´s a study you do when you want to take an easy ride through college.

Which country is that? The law students I knew at Uni assured me they worked damn hard - mind you I suppose they would say that, wouldn't they

Abso-fricking-lutely! I think aussie-dave is confusing an EA/PA with a typist (both of which I have been, many moons ago!) In my last job (as a surveyor) the EA to the senior partner was definitely not a 'lowly' position. Ok, she did help the secretaries out when they were swamped, but that was her choice - definitely not part of her job. She worked long hours and her job was more planning and organising - not filing!

Like you know with any certainty she is a lowly PA. The PA or EA to the CEO is certainly not lowly, by the way. PAs often have degrees these days, law being not a bad one to have in business. Plenty of people do law degrees but then don't fancy the considerable additional cost and time required to study to become a solicitor or barrister. Maybe you thought they could all easily jump into courtroom roles? Law is an interesting subject to study academically even if you don't like the idea of having to defend someone you know or suspect to be guilty. Someone has to but it's understandably not everyones' cup of tea.

A law degree from de Montfort, even a 2:1, isn't much good faced with competition from first class degrees from better law schools. You'd have to be prepared to set your sights fairly low.

Anyway, Helen actually ditched law to work as a waitress, shock horror. She worked her way up to her present position, and her boss gave her a very good recommendation on "Final Five". Maybe not quite up to Helen's own estimation, but she's clearly a proper EA with management responsibility. Before she became his EA she was a regional operations manager. Hardly low level stuff, middle management at Greggs I'd guess. Not entrepreneurial of course, but how many middle management jobs are?

Funny how Zoltan Smith always pops up to support your regular criticisms of Helen and Susan. Are you by any chance related? Or is it just coincidence you share the same misogynistic chauvenism.

It certainly isn't unusual and I wouldn't be surprised if it's close to a majority of graduates going into fields that aren't related to their degree. I've met more people with marine biology degrees working in unrelated jobs than those with marine biology degrees.


An excellent point. University represents the first time a lot of people even begin to consider developing certain qualities and skills. However, it's more than that: the breadth of things potentially gained out of university can include contacts in the right sectors, actual jobs and in some ways far too many things to list.


Precisely. The cost element alone of continuing studies before beginning a training contract or pupillage is something that a lot of graduates can't afford. The course fees for the Legal Practice Course (LPC) or Bar Professional Training Course (BPTC) are generally the best part of £9,000 - £10,000 at least depending where you study.

If you've done your law degree in a university that isn't one of the Russell Group universities and take on board there's no guarantee you'd secure a training contract or pupillage even if you did complete the professional practice courses, it's not surprising law degree graduates look elsewhere when choosing career paths.

In addition, those that look at average salaries for solicitors and barristers may think they would gain financially to go into another area of work.

A lot of the day-to-day work of solicitors and barristers working within particular fields of law that might have interested those studying it at degree level might even be enough to deter people. To borrow from allafix, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

On the actual day Helen folded her arms, saying softly,

"It's not MyPy."

Agree. I work with my PA and an EA on a daily basis, and you rule the office (and make my job 100 times easier!)

I do find that often EA's are essentially senior PA's, and don't have an active say in the direction of the firm (as you would find in the dictionary definition of an EA). They are absolutely vital though and do a complex job.

Not really.

Most people don't pursue a career in law for several reasons:

1. Competition
2. Achieving a 2.1 or a First is difficult
3. Most firms (even local firms) prefer students from red bricks, russell...
4. Getting training contracts/pupilages is extremely difficult ( I am scared)
4. They have no interest in it.

Helen has done well achieving a law degree. Being a PA at Greggs is certainly not lowly and most people in her position would have degrees.

Most people studying law end up doing it for the wrong reasons.

1st year - barely a week in and a handful drop out
2nd year- 1/2 gone
3rd year- 1/3 gone.

I reckon that there is probably upto 75-100 people left in my year. Most would have got a 3rd or a 2:2.

Law is a challenging subject. It is also very respectable.

I yet to see an article from a newspaper or anyone of importance to consider law as a some sort of "doss-subject".

Clearly a stupid statement to make.

I agree most students do use university as an excuse to not work. In fact, I can think of a few people doing doss subjects.

I'd be inclined to agree that a lot of people study it for the wrong reasons too.

I can certainly vouch for the drop out rates. Thinking back one of the first people I spoke to on my course who was in two of my tutorial groups dropped out by the end of November in the first year. She was a friendly girl.

I remember a guy who I got chatting to during my first week who turned up for the first and second days of lectures on week 1 but didn't come in again until the Friday of the 3rd week. I remember he sat down next to me and asked if he'd missed a lot. He'd definitely missed a tutorial or two. I asked where he'd been and he said he'd been too hung over most days to come in. I never saw him again after that Friday.

There were definitely more than 3 people that I knew from tutorials that didn't return for the second year.

Were there many who gradually came to face the reality that when practising criminal law they will often be defending the guilty, so they lose appetite and drop out?

Apologies that my reply is so late. I've been on my travels.

To be honest most of the people I spoke to on my course didn't want to go anywhere near a career involving criminal law full stop. Aside from the defending the guilty aspect, a big factor was that it traditionally isn't the best area of law to earn the big bucks and another was they didn't perceive it to a job they could impress people with.

If anything the majority wanted to have a career in some aspect of 'commercial' law because it has, or at least had, managed to get a reputation for being extremely well paid. This was before the recession mind you.

I wouldn't be at all surprised though if lots of people are turned off the idea of criminal defence and advocacy by having to defend the guilty.

Law is run by its organisations to maximise salaries by minimalising supply. As with Doctors there's a ot more suitable candidates than training positions and jobs created for them. its also like a lot of other professions one where nepotism plays a significant part in selecting who gets the top jobs.

Its a pretty rigorous degree though - a good combination of learning a complex volume of data and applying logic to it.

Actually the amount of medical school places are set by government to cover the approximate need when they qualify. Same as with teachers, vets, physio's and dentists. Not so for Law. Only approx 10% of graduates will get a training contract as there is no regulation as to the amount of places offered. Almost all universities can now offer a law degree so the competition for training contracts is very high. Very good candidates may never get one.

Government doesn't help there as it is/was trying to limit the costs of training falling on government. That feeds then into a restricted supply which then feeds into higher salaries. Higher salaries then mean more tax for government so its got even less incentive to pay to train more doctors, dentists or vets . There are other ways of organising things - as in countries like France Italy and much of Eastern Europe where there are more, less well paid, doctors. I think the evidence is that an awful lot more people have the ability, and I can't think of any reason why my GP is worth 100k plus.

Law seems to organise this all for itself - and the result is that most people who study the subject can't practice it and most people can't afford to go to law - which is fine by the lawyers being well paid by the people who can..