Can't see 1N being in place this month, I reckon early October..
Astra 1N - Any News ?
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Its a big satellite with 3 beams. Probably why testing is a bit slower than say 3B was. As an aside I wonder how many spot beam tps Sky has asked for on 1n???
Originally Posted by kidrock:
“Its a big satellite with 3 beams. Probably why testing is a bit slower than say 3B was. As an aside I wonder how many spot beam tps Sky has asked for on 1n???”
“Its a big satellite with 3 beams. Probably why testing is a bit slower than say 3B was. As an aside I wonder how many spot beam tps Sky has asked for on 1n???”
Sky will probably lease as many as they can to stifle Freesat as much as possible! They don't need spot beams at all
Originally Posted by BrianWescombe:
“Sky will probably lease as many as they can to stifle Freesat as much as possible! They don't need spot beams at all”
“Sky will probably lease as many as they can to stifle Freesat as much as possible! They don't need spot beams at all”
The power of big money and mean spirit.
Give 'em enough rope......
Originally Posted by BrianWescombe:
“Sky will probably lease as many as they can to stifle Freesat as much as possible! They don't need spot beams at all”
“Sky will probably lease as many as they can to stifle Freesat as much as possible! They don't need spot beams at all”
In theory 1N, with 52Ku band TP's, can utilise the whole spectrum so an existing widebeam 2A or 2B TP could switch to 1N and use the same frequency. SES will be aware of who wants spotbeam capacity and who doesn't, I'm sure there's a pecking order for who gets what priority. If Sky want more TP space then SES can rent them the vacant 2A/2B TP's freed up by movements to 1N's empty spectrum.
I'm sure it's not simply a 'first past the post' system of who gets what! SES are the gatekeepers of satellite capacity on their craft, not Sky!
One can only hope that SES Astra have the brains to give the space freed up by the moved off wide beam 2A & 2B keeping the spot beam for what it is meant for, then Freesat will have the ability to blossom and fast. But me thinks Sky will play dirty as they love doing that, playing fair is like the c word at the Queen to Sky...
There are already loads of fta channels that are not on freesat, so I do not expect a rush. It is not just about narrow beam capacity, but the cost of going on Freesat.
Let's be honest here, Sky was Astra's first customer back in 88/9 if Sky wants more tps then Astra won't say no will they? Freesat would have to wait if they wanted more capacity, Sky comes first with Astra & always will think about it why did Rupert go with Astra in the first place? easy answer because it not in the UK & that gives him & Sky more freedom & that is fact he said so at the start, Astra is a private company not state owned like Eutelsat France where the state ie UK could dictate & Mr Rupert would'nt like that would he? 
Originally Posted by Expat:
“There are already loads of fta channels that are not on freesat, so I do not expect a rush. It is not just about narrow beam capacity, but the cost of going on Freesat.”
“There are already loads of fta channels that are not on freesat, so I do not expect a rush. It is not just about narrow beam capacity, but the cost of going on Freesat.”
It's exactly about narrow beam capacity! What do you think they've rushed Asta1N to 28.2 East as a stop gap for otherwise? Spot beam at that location, serving the UK and Ireland, is recognised as being woefully oversubscribed to the extent that they've completely ran out. This fact alone would appear to dis-prove your hypothesis.
On top of that, do you seriously believe that UKTV, ITV, Channel 4, Five, etc. are worried about the cost of joining the Freesat EPG?
Originally Posted by Ray266:
“Let's be honest here, Sky was Astra's first customer back in 88/9 if Sky wants more tps then Astra won't say no will they? Freesat would have to wait if they wanted more capacity, Sky comes first with Astra & always will think about it why did Rupert go with Astra in the first place? easy answer because it not in the UK & that gives him & Sky more freedom & that is fact he said so at the start, Astra is a private company not state owned like Eutelsat France where the state ie UK could dictate & Mr Rupert would'nt like that would he?”
“Let's be honest here, Sky was Astra's first customer back in 88/9 if Sky wants more tps then Astra won't say no will they? Freesat would have to wait if they wanted more capacity, Sky comes first with Astra & always will think about it why did Rupert go with Astra in the first place? easy answer because it not in the UK & that gives him & Sky more freedom & that is fact he said so at the start, Astra is a private company not state owned like Eutelsat France where the state ie UK could dictate & Mr Rupert would'nt like that would he?
”
This sort of talk is ridiculous. Notwithstanding the fact that SES Astra have to play within the EU rules of fair competition, SES Astra is a business. If they were in Sky's pocket they would have just sat back, maintained the status quo, and left Astra 2D as the sole spot beam provider. They've launched Astra 1N because they recognise the demand for more spot beam capacity, to the extent that the current capacity can't even meet the BBC's and ITV's requirements.
Originally Posted by Simon Watkins:
“It's exactly about narrow beam capacity! What do you think they've rushed Asta1N to 28.2 East as a stop gap for otherwise? Spot beam at that location, serving the UK and Ireland, is recognised as being woefully oversubscribed to the extent that they've completely ran out. This fact alone would appear to dis-prove your hypothesis.
On top of that, do you seriously believe that UKTV, ITV, Channel 4, Five, etc. are worried about the cost of joining the Freesat EPG?
This sort of talk is ridiculous. Notwithstanding the fact that SES Astra have to play within the EU rules of fair competition, SES Astra is a business. If they were in Sky's pocket they would have just sat back, maintained the status quo, and left Astra 2D as the sole spot beam provider. They've launched Astra 1N because they recognise the demand for more spot beam capacity, to the extent that the current capacity can't even meet the BBC's and ITV's requirements.”
“It's exactly about narrow beam capacity! What do you think they've rushed Asta1N to 28.2 East as a stop gap for otherwise? Spot beam at that location, serving the UK and Ireland, is recognised as being woefully oversubscribed to the extent that they've completely ran out. This fact alone would appear to dis-prove your hypothesis.
On top of that, do you seriously believe that UKTV, ITV, Channel 4, Five, etc. are worried about the cost of joining the Freesat EPG?
This sort of talk is ridiculous. Notwithstanding the fact that SES Astra have to play within the EU rules of fair competition, SES Astra is a business. If they were in Sky's pocket they would have just sat back, maintained the status quo, and left Astra 2D as the sole spot beam provider. They've launched Astra 1N because they recognise the demand for more spot beam capacity, to the extent that the current capacity can't even meet the BBC's and ITV's requirements.”
Well put Simon. Sky like to see themselves as the Satellite gatekeeper but it's SES who have that position. With 1N in place lack of narrowbeam capacity will be a thing of the past as this bird has up to 52 transponders at the disposal of SES to activate across the whole ku band.
For info: She's still being tested at 1.8E today.
Originally Posted by M60:
“Well put Simon. Sky like to see themselves as the Satellite gatekeeper but it's SES who have that position. With 1N in place lack of narrowbeam capacity will be a thing of the past as this bird has up to 52 transponders at the disposal of SES to activate across the whole ku band.
For info: She's still being tested at 1.8E today.”
“Well put Simon. Sky like to see themselves as the Satellite gatekeeper but it's SES who have that position. With 1N in place lack of narrowbeam capacity will be a thing of the past as this bird has up to 52 transponders at the disposal of SES to activate across the whole ku band.
For info: She's still being tested at 1.8E today.”
Early October before it's in place I reckon...
Originally Posted by M60:
“ With 1N in place lack of narrowbeam capacity will be a thing of the past as this bird has up to 52 transponders at the disposal of SES to activate across the whole ku band.”
“ With 1N in place lack of narrowbeam capacity will be a thing of the past as this bird has up to 52 transponders at the disposal of SES to activate across the whole ku band.”
I thought only one of the three beams was UK focussed?
Originally Posted by acuesta:
“How long will 1N provide interim capacity at 28.2 for, before it moves to 19.2?”
“How long will 1N provide interim capacity at 28.2 for, before it moves to 19.2?”
Until Astra 2E, 2F & 2G arrive (scheduled 2012-2014) to alleviate the need for interim capacity.
They're not giving an exact date AFAIK. Presumably depends on how things pan out, and how successful the forthcoming planned launches and timescales are.
1N could stay at 28°e for a long time their will be a lot of transponders freed up at 19°e when all the German channels that are currently broadcasting in anolog come off line. I think over 30 as I recall. I think 1N will stay in place till 2E or what ever she will be called is ready to go in to service. Then the spot beam will be real tight.
Originally Posted by Ray266:
“Let's be honest here, Sky was Astra's first customer back in 88/9 if Sky wants more tps then Astra won't say no will they? Freesat would have to wait if they wanted more capacity, Sky comes first with Astra & always will think about it why did Rupert go with Astra in the first place? easy answer because it not in the UK & that gives him & Sky more freedom & that is fact he said so at the start, Astra is a private company not state owned like Eutelsat France where the state ie UK could dictate & Mr Rupert would'nt like that would he?”
“Let's be honest here, Sky was Astra's first customer back in 88/9 if Sky wants more tps then Astra won't say no will they? Freesat would have to wait if they wanted more capacity, Sky comes first with Astra & always will think about it why did Rupert go with Astra in the first place? easy answer because it not in the UK & that gives him & Sky more freedom & that is fact he said so at the start, Astra is a private company not state owned like Eutelsat France where the state ie UK could dictate & Mr Rupert would'nt like that would he?
”
Sky were joint first, Eutelsat is privately owned and there were and still are no UK based satellite providers...
Astra have no loyalty to Sky and neither do Sky to Astra. That Sky use Eutelsat craft both for their UK (partial) and Italian (full) services rather belies your idea that there's some love in.
2F is the first to launch in Q4 2012 but whether it gets to GSO is another matter judging by recent failures running at a historic 6% of launches and that doesn't include bird failures.
Originally Posted by KianD:
“Sky were joint first, Eutelsat is privately owned and there were and still are no UK based satellite providers...
Astra have no loyalty to Sky and neither do Sky to Astra. That Sky use Eutelsat craft both for their UK (partial) and Italian (full) services rather belies your idea that there's some love in.”
“Sky were joint first, Eutelsat is privately owned and there were and still are no UK based satellite providers...
Astra have no loyalty to Sky and neither do Sky to Astra. That Sky use Eutelsat craft both for their UK (partial) and Italian (full) services rather belies your idea that there's some love in.”
Surely Astra would just sell to the highest payer, like any other business?
Originally Posted by sodafountain:
“Surely Astra would just sell to the highest payer, like any other business?”
“Surely Astra would just sell to the highest payer, like any other business?”
They would but sky would buy narrow beam space and fill it with encrypted channels just to stifle the competition.
That is anti competitive.
Originally Posted by Flyer 10:
“They would but sky would buy narrow beam space and fill it with encrypted channels just to stifle the competition.
That is anti competitive.”
“They would but sky would buy narrow beam space and fill it with encrypted channels just to stifle the competition.
That is anti competitive.”
Yes, but 1N isn't like 2D in such that it's only got limited TP's within a section of the ku band. 1N could, at present, take virtually all the 2A, 2B and 2D transponders single-handedly as it's got 52 available. Should an operator on, say 12442V (C5) decide they want to go spot-beam then that frequency can be switched to 1N from 2A. It would involve using a second uplink antenna dedicated to 1N at the uplink site but the major players in the business here in the UK will all be busy preparing for this at their Earth Stations.
The days of Sky using 'technical' tactics to stifle the competition are over. The only way they could technically stifle Freesat now is if they actually rent all the 28.2E transponders they don't own - not going to happen!!
Still testing today, some interesting tests taking place whereby transponders are being lit up only briefly, some slightly longer with different modulation (QPSK, 8PSK etc).
Originally Posted by sodafountain:
“Surely Astra would just sell to the highest payer, like any other business?”
“Surely Astra would just sell to the highest payer, like any other business?”
Yes. But Astra aren't going to preferentially offer them to any customer based on someone thinking there's "loyalty".
Originally Posted by KianD:
“Sky were joint first, Eutelsat is privately owned and there were and still are no UK based satellite providers...
Astra have no loyalty to Sky and neither do Sky to Astra. That Sky use Eutelsat craft both for their UK (partial) and Italian (full) services rather belies your idea that there's some love in.”
“Sky were joint first, Eutelsat is privately owned and there were and still are no UK based satellite providers...
Astra have no loyalty to Sky and neither do Sky to Astra. That Sky use Eutelsat craft both for their UK (partial) and Italian (full) services rather belies your idea that there's some love in.”
Oh , right well thanks for putting me right on that, & here's me thinking I knew what I was talking about
.
Originally Posted by Schnuffi:
“... there will be a lot of transponders freed up at 19°e when all the German channels that are currently broadcasting in anolog come off line. I think over 30 as I recall....”
“... there will be a lot of transponders freed up at 19°e when all the German channels that are currently broadcasting in anolog come off line. I think over 30 as I recall....”
All German analogue channels will be switched off end of April 2012 but these transponders wont stay unused for long - ARD and ZDF have already announced the launch of 10 new HD channels from May 1 2012 in addition to the current ARD HD and ZDF HD - ZDFneo HD, ZDFkultur HD, ZDFinfo HD, Kika HD, 3Sat HD, WDR HD, NDR HD, BR HD, SWR HD and Phoenix HD. All fta. 3 German shopping channels (including QVC) also launched HD versions on September 1.
Originally Posted by Night Watchman:
“All German analogue channels will be switched off end of April 2012 but these transponders wont stay unused for long - ARD and ZDF have already announced the launch of 10 new HD channels from May 1 2012 in addition to the current ARD HD and ZDF HD - ZDFneo HD, ZDFkultur HD, ZDFinfo HD, Kika HD, 3Sat HD, WDR HD, NDR HD, BR HD, SWR HD and Phoenix HD. All fta. 3 German shopping channels (including QVC) also launched HD versions on September 1.”
“All German analogue channels will be switched off end of April 2012 but these transponders wont stay unused for long - ARD and ZDF have already announced the launch of 10 new HD channels from May 1 2012 in addition to the current ARD HD and ZDF HD - ZDFneo HD, ZDFkultur HD, ZDFinfo HD, Kika HD, 3Sat HD, WDR HD, NDR HD, BR HD, SWR HD and Phoenix HD. All fta. 3 German shopping channels (including QVC) also launched HD versions on September 1.”
They surely can't be waiting for the vacated analogue transponders? That will be going some to switch off the analogue transponders, and have several HD digital transponders up and running the very next day.
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