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Males and Pop culture
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O.Michel
01-08-2011
Another thought.Is there a possibility that a male from another genre could impact the pop culture too???For example, hip hop and rock are still dominated by males.If any of those genres finds its way back to the mainstream media, could a really poweful and successful male from these genres become a pop icon without being a pop artist???
Multimedia81
06-08-2011
Much of the music I like best tends to come from all-male bands and female solo singers. When I do lists of my fave songs from a year or decade I often find each category accounts for around 1/3 of these, with male singers/mixed/female groups only accounting for the remaining 1/3 of songs I like.

My fave song of the year is occasionally from a solo male artist, most recently Joshua Radin last year, Mika in 2007 and Badly Drawn Boy in 2002.
Eric_Blob
06-08-2011
One thing that has struck me from this thread is that most of the male artists people metioned aren't actually proper pop artists. They're more RnB/hip hop artists, who do a few pop songs here and there, or have pop influences in many of their songs.

If you look at the discographies of Usher, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Chris Brown, etc, they're primarily filled with urban songs. It's probably more difficult to effect pop culture when only half of your songs are actually proper pop songs. Especially when you're competiting with the likes of Britney Spears and Lady Gaga who are releasing like 98% pop.
O.Michel
06-08-2011
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“One thing that has struck me from this thread is that most of the male artists people metioned aren't actually proper pop artists. They're more RnB/hip hop artists, who do a few pop songs here and there, or have pop influences in many of their songs.

If you look at the discographies of Usher, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Chris Brown, etc, they're primarily filled with urban songs. It's probably more difficult to effect pop culture when only half of your songs are actually proper pop songs. Especially when you're competiting with the likes of Britney Spears and Lady Gaga who are releasing like 98% pop.”

But you don't need to be a proper pop artist to impact the pop culture.David Bowie is an icon but he wasn't really a pop artist, for example.
And anyway, Justin and Chris are urban pop, which means that they are both pop and r'n'b.Usher has brought out quite a lot of pop songs and I don't think anyone mentioned Bruno, because obviously he hasn't had any impact on the pop culture
Mr. Fahrenheit
06-08-2011
I think Justin definitely had an impact on Pop Culture, whether it was his relationship with Britney, his ''look'' (shaved head, suits) and in particular his second album FutureSex/LoveSounds because it's had a massive influence on the Pop'n'B dominating the charts today. He is an Icon.

Usher had the chance, producing a fantastic album like Confessions, but then he blew it. He's now almost completely irrelevent because he's having no influence on Music and just following the crowd.

Chris Brown also threw his chance away when she beat Rihanna. He's still successful, but the potential and momentum he had before that incident was extraordinary. He could have been great, now he's not.

Camp Male Pop Artists like Mika and Adam Lambert have been successful but are underperforming.
Rappers like Jay-Z and in particular Kanye are certainly having an impact on Pop Culture, but they're not Pop in the context we're discussing.
And then we have Singer/Songwriters and bands, who can be very successful but again, aren't the kind of Pop we're discussing.

It really is female domination.
My Gawd, it's Blond Ambition.
Madonna's a friggin' genuis.
I blame her.
O.Michel
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit:
“I think Justin definitely had an impact on Pop Culture, whether it was his relationship with Britney, his ''look'' (shaved head, suits) and in particular his second album FutureSex/LoveSounds because it's had a massive influence on the Pop'n'B dominating the charts today. He is an Icon”

His contribution was so slight, though, barely noticeable, dare I say.He didn't do anything revolutionary, although his music was indeed excellent.
Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit:
“Usher had the chance, producing a fantastic album like Confessions, but then he blew it. He's now almost completely irrelevent because he's having no influence on Music and just following the crowd.”

I actually think that Usher's downfall was his arrogant attitude (he thought he was famous enough to fight with the media about his ex-wife and he cheated on his then girlfriend thinking he would completely get away with that) and also the fact that he insisted on straight up copying MJ instead of just tributing him or being influenced.Do you think his 'revolutionary pop' prospect will help him raise his profile again???
Mr. Fahrenheit
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by O.Michel:
“His contribution was so slight, though, barely noticeable, dare I say.He didn't do anything revolutionary, although his music was indeed excellent.

I actually think that Usher's downfall was his arrogant attitude (he thought he was famous enough to fight with the media about his ex-wife and he cheated on his then girlfriend thinking he would completely get away with that) and also the fact that he insisted on straight up copying MJ instead of just tributing him or being influenced.Do you think his 'revolutionary pop' prospect will help him raise his profile again???”

Justin was definitely a force to be reckoned with in 2006/2007. I don't think you can downplay that, because FutureSex was cutting edge, even if it was a real ''Producers' Album''. I think he made an impact, and certainly more than any other male Pop Artist in the decade.

Usher will not make revolutionary Pop. That would just kill me. I can't wait to hear what he's working on though. It should be funny.

Usher: I'm going to revolutionize US Pop Music by introducing Dubstep to the largest music market in the WORLD! BWAH HA HA!

*Listens To Femme Fatale*

Usher: Oh. Shit.
x_bibs93_x
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit:
“Justin was definitely a force to be reckoned with in 2006/2007. I don't think you can downplay that, because FutureSex was cutting edge, even if it was a real ''Producers' Album''. I think he made an impact, and certainly more than any other male Pop Artist in the decade.

Usher will not make revolutionary Pop. That would just kill me. I can't wait to hear what he's working on though. It should be funny.

Usher: I'm going to revolutionize US Pop Music by introducing Dubstep to the largest music market in the WORLD! BWAH HA HA!

*Listens To Femme Fatale*

Usher: Oh. Shit.”

I've lost respect for Usher ever since he forced Bieber upon us...
Mr. Fahrenheit
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by x_bibs93_x:
“I've lost respect for Usher ever since he forced Bieber upon us...”

This too. People say GaGa's evil? Pffft. Send VigilantCitizen that idiot any day.
O.Michel
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit:
“Justin was definitely a force to be reckoned with in 2006/2007. I don't think you can downplay that, because FutureSex was cutting edge, even if it was a real ''Producers' Album''. I think he made an impact, and certainly more than any other male Pop Artist in the decade.

Usher will not make revolutionary Pop. That would just kill me. I can't wait to hear what he's working on though. It should be funny.

Usher: I'm going to revolutionize US Pop Music by introducing Dubstep to the largest music market in the WORLD! BWAH HA HA!

*Listens To Femme Fatale*

Usher: Oh. Shit.”

Future Sex/Love Sounds was innovative, but not revolutionary and his style was great, but not that original, so he is not a pop icon on the level of MJ, Elvis etc.And I'm not trying to degrade his success, he was slaying, but I don't think he's had that much of a big impact on pop culture.
And to be honest, Britney's version of dubstep wasn't so clear.She introduced dubstep to the mainstream but it wasn't the real dubstep.Maybe Usher was trying to do something more authentic.But then again, I don't trust his perception of music AT ALL.I think that when he composes a song, he does everything wrong.The songs that he writes are just full of flaws, so I don't think he knows what he's doing with the elements that he's trying to use.I think that his management are going to make him backtrack after Britney's HIAM making dubstep widely populst (it's going to make him look like a copycat).However, even if he goes with it, he's most probably going to use all the right elements in the wrong way.If he does dubstep and then keep grabbing his crotch, copying MJ etc, it won't make sense.In my book, when a mediocre artist is trying to be a legend, then things will sooner or later fall apart.And Usher is the prime example of this theory.
KillerJoe
13-08-2011
Pop has become very female dominated lately, I would like to see a small surge of male pop singers breaking into the market, just to balance it out if anything..
Mr. Fahrenheit
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by O.Michel:
“Future Sex/Love Sounds was innovative, but not revolutionary and his style was great, but not that original, so he is not a pop icon on the level of MJ, Elvis etc.And I'm not trying to degrade his success, he was slaying, but I don't think he's had that much of a big impact on pop culture.
And to be honest, Britney's version of dubstep wasn't so clear.She introduced dubstep to the mainstream but it wasn't the real dubstep.Maybe Usher was trying to do something more authentic.But then again, I don't trust his perception of music AT ALL.I think that when he composes a song, he does everything wrong.The songs that he writes are just full of flaws, so I don't think he knows what he's doing with the elements that he's trying to use.I think that his management are going to make him backtrack after Britney's HIAM making dubstep widely populst (it's going to make him look like a copycat).However, even if he goes with it, he's most probably going to use all the right elements in the wrong way.If he does dubstep and then keep grabbing his crotch, copying MJ etc, it won't make sense.In my book, when a mediocre artist is trying to be a legend, then things will sooner or later fall apart.And Usher is the prime example of this theory.”

The secret to Britney's success has always been that she mixes the mainstream with something else. On Femme Fatale it was Dubstep. It's no different from Circus (Euro-Pop), Blackout (Electro/R'n'B) or In The Zone (Basically Everything). That's how Britney has introduced Dubstep to a wider audience.

When we heard HIAM over here, we were like ''Yeah, that breakdown is cool. NEXT!'' but in the US critics were crazy for it.

Usher will not be able to pull that success off. He's done as an artist.:sleep:
J6ngo1977
13-08-2011
because us males wanna 'rock'! and women wanna 'pop'.
lil lexie
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by toanythingtaboo:
“Perhaps then, the next logical step for a male popstar is for an out gay man to succeed?”

what is this? 1983? Some of us are old enough to remember the original 'ok to be gay' propagandists (though off the top of my head I can only recall Bronski Beat/Jimmy Somerville, Marc Almond and Divine), not sure they're that relevant today, tbh.

but to answer your question, I guess female artists are more commercially viable, appealing to both male and female audience, where as male pop stars would generally only appeal to a female market, or at least that's probably how it's perceived by the record labels.

I think it's probably better for male artists to establish themselves with a (boy)band first and then carry that audience across to a more mature, solo career, ie. George Micheal and Robbie Williams.
O.Michel
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit:
“The secret to Britney's success has always been that she mixes the mainstream with something else. On Femme Fatale it was Dubstep. It's no different from Circus (Euro-Pop), Blackout (Electro/R'n'B) or In The Zone (Basically Everything). That's how Britney has introduced Dubstep to a wider audience.

When we heard HIAM over here, we were like ''Yeah, that breakdown is cool. NEXT!'' but in the US critics were crazy for it.

Usher will not be able to pull that success off. He's done as an artist.:sleep:”

Agreed.Britney is the only reason why dubstep videos on YouTube get more than 50k views and Usher will come across as a copycat if he goes that way.But even if Britney hadn't launched it first, Usher wouldn't pull it off.I'm not sure he cares about music, I think he just cares about fame, applause and for some weird goal of his to reach MJ (Man, he's going to be 80 years old when he realizes that it's impossible for him to do so).And I don't even think he's that much of a good singer.His advantages were his dancing ability (I thought he was slick, but not mindblowing) and his abs and now he's practically lost both :yawn::sleep: If he keeps doing little pop hits, he will always sell 2-3 millions worldwide based on hardcore fans and casual listeners but he'll never reach one quarter of what 'Confessions' sold.He'll just be mediocre.
O.Michel
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by lil lexie:
“what is this? 1983? Some of us are old enough to remember the original 'ok to be gay' propagandists (though off the top of my head I can only recall Bronski Beat/Jimmy Somerville, Marc Almond and Divine), not sure they're that relevant today, tbh.

but to answer your question, I guess female artists are more commercially viable, appealing to both male and female audience, where as male pop stars would generally only appeal to a female market, or at least that's probably how it's perceived by the record labels.

I think it's probably better for male artists to establish themselves with a (boy)band first and then carry that audience across to a more mature, solo career, ie. George Micheal and Robbie Williams.”

I actually agree with that, but labels need to find a way to launch and market the male popstar to guys/men buyers too.Of course, speaking as a guy, I believe that we tend to download illegally more than females do (I don't know why I think of that, I just do), so it's going to be difficult.Still, MJ has LOADS of male fans (dare I say, more male fans than female).And yes, MJ is pretty much untouchable in that level too, but there must be a label who can give at least a bit of MJ's commercial appeal to a new artist...
lil lexie
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by O.Michel:
“I actually agree with that, but labels need to find a way to launch and market the male popstar to guys/men buyers too.Of course, speaking as a guy, I believe that we tend to download illegally more than females do (I don't know why I think of that, I just do), so it's going to be difficult.Still, MJ has LOADS of male fans (dare I say, more male fans than female).And yes, MJ is pretty much untouchable in that level too, but there must be a label who can give at least a bit of MJ's commercial appeal to a new artist...”

yeah but MJ employed that 'jumping from a boyband' technique, which aided his success. I think it's quite difficult for a male artist to succeed, especially in today's pop market on their own merit.
O.Michel
13-08-2011
Originally Posted by lil lexie:
“yeah but MJ employed that 'jumping from a boyband' technique, which aided his success. I think it's quite difficult for a male artist to succeed, especially in today's pop market on their own merit.”

I actually think that at this point it would be more difficult for a boy band to succeed than it would be for a solo male pop act.Boy bands are dated and washed out.I just think that we haven't found the right male yet, either because labels choose idiots (Jonas???Bieber???Jason DeRulo???) or because the ones that had potential messed up in the process (Justin T having a way too long break and getting arrogant, Usher firing his mother, heavily involving the media in his marriage and in his divorce and of course selling out and Chris harming Rihanna)
MikeyDLuffy
13-08-2011
I see pop as lightweight music, mostly aimed at youngsters and teens. Rihanna, Beyonce etc appeals to this demographic, where Kanye, Lil Wayne, Eminem, Ray Lamontagne appeal to their more mature / informed audiences. Avioding the pop genre will probably give the artists more creative elbow room to play with their music which may make them less accessable to teens that might not 'get' their music.
mr muggles
31-10-2011
Once upon a time in the 80's, Marc Almond went solo in 1984 and began an amazing run of albums from 'Vermine In Ermine' to (at least) 'Absinthe'.

He, together with the Banshees brought orchestration back to 'pop' music (which, incidentally back in Thatchers Britain, was a very duuurty word! Back then, you had to believe in Bonos working class ethoszzzzzzz and loud lead guitars - ohh smell that BRUT!).

Hes managed to claw himself a place in pop history with Soft Cell & later with 'something got a hold...', but, if you take time to discover his 'ouvre', his own songs are truly original & catchy pop music. He also got me into other artists thru his own love of music, eg: Scott Walker, French chanson, Brel etc.

You truly cant keep an INTERESTING, ORIGINAL down!
Nobody Knows
31-10-2011
Instead of having an openly gay male, what if it was a male popstar with 'Express Yourself' type songs? Would he bomb or succeed?
TheChicagoBaron
31-10-2011
Originally Posted by Nobody Knows:
“Instead of having an openly gay male, what if it was a male popstar with 'Express Yourself' type songs? Would he bomb or succeed? ”

Bionic Part Deux, to be honest.
Nobody Knows
31-10-2011
Originally Posted by TheChicagoBaron:
“Bionic Part Deux, to be honest.”

That's what I thought.
Kalmia
31-10-2011
It is strange that male singers aren't having much of an impact any more, especially as if you look outside of English speaking countries, they're a lot more influential. I wonder why UK/American/etc males aren't keeping up with previous generations or with the girls.
Mick_Swagger
31-10-2011
the OP forgot to mention Eminem from 99-03 he was just as big if not bigger than Gaga is now, you also have the likes of Jay Z, Kanye, Bieber and Timberlake who are just as big as the likes of Beyonce, Rihanna and Katy Perry.
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