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Did Axing Top Of The Pops Kill Rock N Roll ? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Did Axing Top Of The Pops Kill Rock N Roll ?
As a pretty serious rock/metal fan i never thought id be saying this but i think axing TOTP has wrecked the UK music scene and not just for fans of manafactured pop, teenybopper crapulence and fans of cliff richard but also for real music. Theres no one major accepted and respected chart show bands arent getting exposure and musicians and genres that dont look like simon cowell may have wet himself over at some stage are really struggling and in decline. By comparison in the USA they have several different charts broken down into genre. TOTP was hardly our answer to the BILLBOARD ROCK CHARTS but im really starting to feel the effect of its absence. Time to bring it back ?
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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I think it should come back
Typical pop music fans would generally watch it. Artists these days have to do promo on shows like Chatty Man, Paul o grady etc. Not that i am disrespect those shows but the target audience are not watching the shows. The X Factor is the only great place for promo but that's only on for about three months out the year. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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It very much depends on what you call "rock and roll". If you're talking about rock and metal, it didn't really have much influence on that in its later years anyway.
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#4 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
As a pretty serious rock/metal fan i never thought id be saying this but i think axing TOTP has wrecked the UK music scene and not just for fans of manafactured pop, teenybopper crapulence and fans of cliff richard but also for real music. Theres no one major accepted and respected chart show bands arent getting exposure and musicians and genres that dont look like simon cowell may have wet himself over at some stage are really struggling and in decline. By comparison in the USA they have several different charts broken down into genre. TOTP was hardly our answer to the BILLBOARD ROCK CHARTS but im really starting to feel the effect of its absence. Time to bring it back ?
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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In the 'old days' though, there were many different types of music and they all had a place on TOTP - you could see acts like Buck's Fizz, followed by Iron Maiden, followed by Frankie Goes To Hollywood and no-one cared, it was part of the fun.
There seems to be only a few genres of music that would make it on there these days, and none of them that I would want to listen to or watch! I agree that ithe demise of TOTP hasn't done any good to rock - nowhere on terrestrial TV these days could you hope to see acts like Blackstone Cherry or Black Country Communion. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Of course it didn't.
I don't really remember TOTP being a great source of rock music and to be honest I don't really buy the terminal decline of rock music argument. I'm no golden oldie, i'm only 27 but i'm old enough to have lived through press reports in the late 90's that no one was buying guitars and that music stores were making their money selling decks and mixers with the charts being full of the likes of s-club, the vengaboys and alice deejay, to the early to mid 2000's. Then a few years later the rise of nu metal and indie being all over the charts in the middle part of the decade, complete with press reports of guitars flying off the shelf in music stores. Now its come round again and you can't get a guitar band in the charts for love nor money, and the bbc are running stories about the death of guitar music. I've seen it all before, there is nothing exceptional about the position guitar music is in, its not dead its just sleeping. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
I agree that ithe demise of TOTP hasn't done any good to rock - nowhere on terrestrial TV these days could you hope to see acts like Blackstone Cherry or Black Country Communion.
Now internet access, digital TV and so forth are widespread. Most people have access to specialist music channels like Kerrang or Scuzz and a whole host of rock focussed music stations at the click of a sky remote or click of a mouse. |
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#8 |
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Quote:
Why does that matter though, in the 80's the media landscape was tottally different. There were less ways to access music and so TOTP was important.
Now internet access, digital TV and so forth are widespread. Most people have access to specialist music channels like Kerrang or Scuzz and a whole host of rock focussed music stations at the click of a sky remote or click of a mouse. Going by what you say, you may as well not have TV at all, because almost everything is available on the net somewhere. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,270
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Bring back TOTP! I miss it.
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 442
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Quote:
Why does that matter though, in the 80's the media landscape was tottally different. There were less ways to access music and so TOTP was important.
Now internet access, digital TV and so forth are widespread. Most people have access to specialist music channels like Kerrang or Scuzz and a whole host of rock focussed music stations at the click of a sky remote or click of a mouse. There's the National Geographic channel but that doesnt mean the BBC should stop showing nature programs. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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What killed TOTP is clashing it with Coronation Street on a Friday night. Bring it back! But if they were to bring it back they should move it to a better time slot.
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#12 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
Posts: 346
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I agree..lets all petition to have it back on our screens by not paying the licence fee...
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#13 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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To its credit TOTP did try to put on a variety of acts from the week's chart from all genres of music but if it came back it would find itself very hard pressed to find anything in the top 40 that isn't homogenised pop pap.
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#14 |
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Quote:
I think the point of this thread was about having a mainstream tv show that shows a variety of different musical genres.
There's the National Geographic channel but that doesnt mean the BBC should stop showing nature programs. However, I think its important to note that the top of the pops format is 40+ years old and was thought up in an entirely different media landscape where the BBC and ITV were the only games in town. I think you can make a very cogent argument that the BBC should be showcasing a variety of genres in the way they did with TOTP on prime time tv, however, I don't think the lack of such a show can really be put forward as one of the key reasons rock music isn't a big part of the charts. It was possible for punk to become the rock sub genre of choice in the 70's with little or no support from totp so why in the age of digital media and mass access to massive amounts of music online and on digital tv and radio can the loss of the show be put forward as the reason for the genres current (in my view short term) decline? |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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I'd rather see the return of Headbangers Ball (with knowledgeable presenters) over totp.
Though The Wildhearts on totp is a cherished childhood memory
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#16 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Rock and Roll has died because simply there is no one around that compares to the great rock acts of yesteryear.
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#17 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,098
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Freshly squeezed is a joke.
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#18 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,890
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No Totp killed Rock'n'roll
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#19 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Rock and Roll has died because simply there is no one around that compares to the great rock acts of yesteryear.
What has died, though, is the mainstream coverage of rock music. Something Alexis Petridis discusses in his Guardian Blog last month with relation to why Metal bands never get nominated for the Mercury Prize... Alexis Petridis on heavy metal and the Mercury prize What he says is pretty much 100% correct and, for me, the following paragraphs encapsulate the problem perfectly.... Quote:
The reason why metal bands never get nominated for the Mercury is the same reason why metal bands never appear on Later With Jools Holland. It's the same reason why the BBC devotes hours of coverage to Glastonbury and T in the Park, but nothing to Sonisphere, a festival at which the cumulative album sales of the headlining acts touches something like 200m. And it's the same reason why the chief rock critic of a national newspaper had to ring his mate up to find out what the most boundary-pushing British metal albums of the last 20 years were.
It's because the British mainstream media is institutionally biased against heavy metal. For some reason, it's populated by people who neither like metal nor understand it, and who believe that the general public follow suit. Under the circumstances, you can't blame its fans for getting their placards out and having a bit of a shout |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,204
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I loved TOTP, and believe it's demise has led to the rise of programmes like the X Factor and the power of the Dark Lord Simon Cowell. There is nothing wrong with a music talent show as such, but this has to tick the entertainment boxes as well. I object to the way that every tiny detail is controlled, and the contestants often don't get their choice of song to sing. The press coverage is excessive and often nonsensical, and the actual singing bit is only about 2 minutes! I got way too into it and utterly frustrated by it last year because I'm a big Matt Cardle fan. I hope him winning it will be a positive thing, because he is a proper musician and songwriter who saw no other route open to him in the music business. And how sad is that state of affairs for young talented music makers?
TOTP was all encompassing - when Joe Dolce "Shaddappa ya face" (or whatever it was) was number one keeping Vienna from the top spot, it just got politely played because at the end of the day more people had bought it! There was no "angle" to anything - a variety of music was just played "straight" for the viewer to decide for themselves. In my youth, heavy metal was a big force in the charts - Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, I've even got a record by the Tigers of Pan Tang! It wasn't my favourite genre but I picked bits out of it that I liked. I'm sorry but these music channels, late night programmes and downloads just don't do it for me the way TOTP did. BRING IT BACK!!! |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
What has died, though, is the mainstream coverage of rock music. Something Alexis Petridis discusses in his Guardian Blog last month with relation to why Metal bands never get nominated for the Mercury Prize...
Alexis Petridis on heavy metal and the Mercury prize What he says is pretty much 100% correct and, for me, the following paragraphs encapsulate the problem perfectly.... However, the question I always ask people when they make a point like this is since when has metal been about being featured on Jools Holland? Metal is at its heart music about being an outsider. Its difference is part of what attracts people to it in the first place. It reminds me of something I heard when working behind the bar of a rock club 5 or 6 years ago. The company owned many clubs some very very mainstream and some rock clubs and had a christmas party for all the bar staff at all the clubs. One of the staff at the rock club complained at a staff meeting to the owner that all the other staff had been very dismissive of the rock club staff and kept their distance a bit. The owner pointed out that the bloke in question was about 6 foot tall, covered in tatoo's, piercings and wearing a cradle of filth t-shirt which said "jesus is a c**t". The owners point was that when you make choices which mark you out as "different" and reject societies traditional values with statements like the one on his t-shirt you can't be surprised when people keep their distance from you at the office christmas party. Metal isn't about and never has been about being on top of the pops, jools holland or bloody loose women. Its a genre which thrives on difference and being a bit alternaive. Thats it's joy, its strength and why it endures beyond other more trend driven genres that play the fashion game and end up on Radio 1. Part of that is that you don't get on the telly on a saturday evening but is that not part of the fun? |
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#22 |
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Quote:
I won't argue with anything Petridis says.
However, the question I always ask people when they make a point like this is since when has metal been about being featured on Jools Holland? Metal is at its heart music about being an outsider. Its difference is part of what attracts people to it in the first place. However something like the Mercury prize is supposed to be about musical excellence, to showcase the best albums within a 12 month period, so how can it meet that aim if whole genres of music are completely ignored, either through ignorance or for convenience? But then there is also the complete lack of respect from the media. Iron Maiden are arguably the biggest selling British band around the world of the last 30 years, whose last album went to number 1 album in 35 countries and yet their achievements are universally ignored by every mainstream British media outlet. I'm not saying they deserve 24/7 coverage, far from it, but in any other country they would be treated with respect for what they have done, whereas in this country they are almost despised by the mainstream media. |
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#23 |
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Quote:
To its credit TOTP did try to put on a variety of acts from the week's chart from all genres of music but if it came back it would find itself very hard pressed to find anything in the top 40 that isn't homogenised pop pap.
I'm no expert in how the industry works but there is great music out there but the record companies, radio stations and alot of music channels will not promote or play it. The UK music charts has become like the USA chart scene always was. Very one dimensional. We have lost our diversity. I personally think part of the reason is down to who by and large downloads singles each week. Its the teenagers mainly. I think an older generation who liked other types of music used to buy physical singles in big numbers. Now they are not in your face anymore (i.e. in the shops to buy) a big % of people do not bother with singles anymore. Basically, I think the younger generation are downloading in much larger numbers and the over 25s are not downloading and can't really buy singles anymore. |
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#24 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The BBC are foolish for not having it on in an early Saturday position.
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#25 |
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I agree with what you are saying because I wouldn't want Metal to become a commercialised, water-down, parody. One of the strengths of Metal is that it is outside the mainstream, and that allows bands to develop their creativity without record label interference.
However something like the Mercury prize is supposed to be about musical excellence, to showcase the best albums within a 12 month period, so how can it meet that aim if whole genres of music are completely ignored, either through ignorance or for convenience? But then there is also the complete lack of respect from the media. Iron Maiden are arguably the biggest selling British band around the world of the last 30 years, whose last album went to number 1 album in 35 countries and yet their achievements are universally ignored by every mainstream British media outlet. I'm not saying they deserve 24/7 coverage, far from it, but in any other country they would be treated with respect for what they have done, whereas in this country they are almost despised by the mainstream media. For me, its no surprise that Maiden aren't in the mainstream press, its alternative culture, the point is its outside of the mainstream. Maiden has their market and has done nicely existing just out side of mainstream press. Like i've said before though, its easier to access rock and metal now than at any time I can rememeber in my life. The media and cultural landscape is at a point now where we have our big blockbuster hits like X-factor in TV terms and Adele in music terms, They are "water cooler" culture that you can talk to any old joe down the office about it. That big hit part of culture is getting narrower and narrower while the access to alternative or niche music styles or other forms of entertainment is getting easier and easier because of digital media. Harking back to metal bands on TOTP is trying to bring back something from a media enviroment that just doesn't exist anymore. Metal doesn't need TOTP anymore, it doesn't need the charts and neither does anyother part of alternative culture from Metal to Jazz, or Anime or foriegn language cinema. Artists like Take That do need big pop shows because there business model is based on shifting ooodles of units and being on the X-factor, selling music from tesco. The fact that genres like metal don't have to play that game now is surely something to be celebrated, not mourned? |
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