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Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1
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Dai13371
08-09-2011
Originally Posted by Matt D:
“I find the whole thing bizarre, and don't agree with Apple's tactics at all, but...

... I would find it strange if it was because of being "deathly scared of losing market share". Apple owns the tablet market, and still has nothing to worry about (until Amazon's comes out?). The original Galaxy Tab didn't do well, the Xoom hasn't done well, the Playbook hasn't done well, and the Touchpad failed so badly it was killed off. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 may be the best Android tablet at the moment, but I wouldn't call it the "greatest rival to the iPad". It's a lovely bit of kit, but I think being priced exactly the same as the iPad 2 kills any chance it has of making a dent in the market.”

Oh I think Apple fear lightning will strike twice. They lost the smartphone lead when Apple owned the smartphone market and they fear they may lose if not all but some of the tablet market, at least enough to put a scratch in their profit margin when the plethora of rival kit becomes far more affordable and the realisation that people are saying "hang on, it seems Apple aren't the only ones producing this sort of kit" becomes more apparent.

I said the Tab 10.1 was ipads greatest rival because it is a tablet which equals if not surpasses Apple's own device. Of course I must be honest here and say this opinion is not at all based upon experience with a Tab 10.1 but with a Tab 7 which I own. I have also used an iPad 2 and I cannot for the life of me work out what the fuss is at all. For me, using the iPad 2 was a very sterile, clinical affair rather like using a Casio calculator.
alanwarwic
08-09-2011
Well the sticky mud is certainly coming from a bit of hot spring for Samsung and Google.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...orola-revealed
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ung-galaxy-tab
Matt D
08-09-2011
Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“Oh I think Apple fear lightning will strike twice. They lost the smartphone lead when Apple owned the smartphone market and they fear they may lose if not all but some of the tablet market, at least enough to put a scratch in their profit margin when the plethora of rival kit becomes far more affordable and the realisation that people are saying "hang on, it seems Apple aren't the only ones producing this sort of kit" becomes more apparent.

I said the Tab 10.1 was ipads greatest rival because it is a tablet which equals if not surpasses Apple's own device. Of course I must be honest here and say this opinion is not at all based upon experience with a Tab 10.1 but with a Tab 7 which I own. I have also used an iPad 2 and I cannot for the life of me work out what the fuss is at all. For me, using the iPad 2 was a very sterile, clinical affair rather like using a Casio calculator.”

Tablet market ≠ smartphone market

Apple never owned the smartphone market, certainly not the way it currently owns the tablet market (i.e. total and utter domination). It pretty much created the current tablet market, and still sells far far more than everyone else combined, whereas with smartphones it was originally the pesky young upstart, trying to nab share from Nokia and RIM and Sony Ericsson etc.

Still, although Apple doesn't (and never did) totally and utterly dominate the smartphone market like it does the tablet market, and even though Android is the more popular smartphone OS, Apple is now the "worldwide number one single manufacturer of smartphones by revenue, profit, and volume, followed by Samsung, then Nokia".

Tablets are different to smartphones.

Most people buy smartphones on a contract, and so get them subsidised. High-end Android phones are cheaper than iPhones, and you may well find you get a better tariff too.

Tablets... although some people get them subsidised on a data contract, the majority buy them outright. So, you don't get the same kind of thing there is with smartphones where people can get an Android phone of equivalent/superior spec. to an iPhone for less money.

With tablets, the high-end ones all cost the same as the iPad (until they fail to sell very well, and then have their price slashed: See Moto's Xoom and RIM's PlayBook...And then of course there's the HP TouchPad...).

Apple's latest quarterly results state that it sold 9.25 million iPads from April to June.

Compare that with...

- 500,000 Playbooks in RIM's last quarter.

- 440,000 Xooms in Motorola's last quarter.


It's too soon yet for Tab 10.1 figures, but given that it costs exactly the same as the iPad 2, I would expect it to have similar issues to past competitors (& its own predecessor). It is a lovely device, but I think that Samsung has priced it too high.

"equals if not surpasses Apple's own device": In what ways? They both have the same CPU, the iPad 2 has a superior GPU, the Tab 10.1 has more RAM, and the iPad 2 has more apps.

[EDIT: I originally also said "the Tab has more built-in options for connectivity" too, as I assumed it had those things that some people always criticise the iPad for lacking: SD slot, USB, and HDMI... Yet it seems that it doesn't have them, and requires separate adaptors to connect to its proprietary dock interface just like the iPad.]


... And in the tablet market, tech specs are not the be all and end all. Some people will care about which tablet has more RAM, or better graphics, or has an SD slot, or can play Flash... But most don't care. It's all about the apps and the user experience. The iPad wins on apps, and although the latest Honeycomb on the Tab 10.1 is meant to be much better than the version the Xoom launched with, from what I can gather from reviews and from real user comments, the iPad is still ahead when it comes to the user experience, the usability, etc. People who specifically want an Android tablet, plus people who are the sort of Apple haters DS has a lot of, etc. ...yeah, they'll go for the Tab, or other Android tablet. Pretty much everyone else willing to drop that much money? They go for iPads... 30 million of them.

Given that the iPad is still ahead on apps, plus benefits from the Apple name, the brand, the image (I'd bet that tablet = iPad to most people, plus Apple products are perceived to be worth more), Apple's competitors need to do more than just bring out endless iPad clones with more RAM, or Flash, or HDMI ports, etc. They need to compete on price...

I have high hopes for the Amazon tablet bringing some much needed serious competition to the market. Spec-wise it doesn't compare, but if it has the right price-point, and has the whole integrated ecosystem (something only Apple has managed so far), Amazon may be able to carve out a nice chunk of a new "mid-range" market, and attract those who don't want to pay for an iPad (or Tab, or Xoom etc.), but who want more than just some cheapo Archos or Acer etc.
alanwarwic
08-09-2011
I'm not 100% certain that the iPad wins on apps.

Firefox is banned.
Opera is banned.
Adobe Flash is banned.
Sony ebooks is banned.
Tethering apps are banned.
Porn apps are banned.
The Financial Times app is banned.

There is good stuff there but there is also that walled garden too.
Matt D
08-09-2011
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“I'm not 100% certain that the iPad wins on apps.

Firefox is banned.
Opera is banned.
Adobe Flash is banned.
Sony ebooks is banned.
Tethering apps are banned.
Porn apps are banned.
The Financial Times app is banned.

There is good stuff there but there is also that walled garden too.”


True, there is a walled garden. But there are still more iOS apps than Android apps, and more iPad apps than Honeycomb apps.

Opera? What about this?

Firefox... True. You can use Firefox Home though, at least. Or use Atomic, or iCab Mobile... But yeah, would be nice to have Firefox. I hate Safari.

Flash... Given the sales figures of the iPad and its rivals, I'd assume that most people don't really care. It's not needed for YouTube, or iPlayer, or ITV Player, or 4oD, or TVCatchup/Filmon (free Freeview TV streaming). What use would it be? Flash based websites? Awful things. Flash adverts? Who wants to see those... Browser games? There's the App Store... [which of course is probably the real reason: No Flash means people have to get games from the App Store...]

Tethering... Android lets you tether, regardless of your mobile contract. iOS doesn't. Should Apple help the mobile networks enforce their stupid restrictions? Probably not. But still, if someone's signed up to a contract which forbids tethering unless they pay extra, they can't really moan that their phone does not allow them to violate their contract by tethering without network approval.

Porn... True. A silly restriction. You need a credit card to buy stuff, and you already have to affirm your age when buying certain content, so why not let people have adult content, so long as it is legal? Still, I can always browse porn websites on my iPad instead of using a porn app (some even have mobile versions)... just so long as they're not Flash-based abominations of course
alanwarwic
08-09-2011
Opera mini is a useful cache cloud type browser for low powered devices or low bandwidth networks.

The full Opera Mobile browser is banned.
Dai13371
09-09-2011
Originally Posted by Matt D:
“Tablet market ≠ smartphone market

Apple never owned the smartphone market , certainly not the way it currently owns the tablet market (i.e. total and utter domination). It pretty much created the current tablet market, and still sells far far more than everyone else combined, whereas with smartphones it was originally the pesky young upstart, trying to nab share from Nokia and RIM and Sony Ericsson etc.
”

There is another user here who would love to argue that point with you.

Anyway, when I say smartphone I wanted to specifically concentrate on multi touch capacitative screened phones so we don't get bogged down by the RIM devices or the Symbian devices which are not finding themselves in as many wish lists as they once did. To use your line of thinking, to most people smart phone = iPhone.

As for tablets different to smartphones, well yes they are, except my Galaxy Tab 7inch which is interchangeable in both roles and the new Note and Dell's older Streak (which could be called hybrids I suppose.)

As for Tab 10.1 equalling or surpassing the iPad 2, what I meant was that aside form the hardware specs which as you say are similar as to make no difference, the Samsung is based upon honeycomb so ripe for rooting and modding and that I personally find the Android experience surpasses the iOS experience which I found sterile and clinical (don't ask me to try and explain as I cannot, just found it cold like using a calculator or a remote control...never made me think, wow this is cool). I am not speaking for everyone, just myself (although I admit I have not used a 10.1 but a 7 and I can only imagine the 10.1 a massive improvement over the 7 so I think my point still stands.

You also say that apple has more apps? Well, yes but remove the stupid beer drinking or light sabre apps on both platforms and concentrate only on real world useful apps, both platforms are equal in that respect. Honeycomb tabs, for the most part, can run gingerbread, froyo and eclair apps (not 100% I agree). Like the way the Guardian writer puts the emphasis on Honeycomb apps to further his argument. Cannot really see an iOS advantage there sorry.

In Top Gear when reviewing the BMW 1 series, Clarkson was not really fond of it and he said the reason such an expensive car will sell so well was the propellor emblem on the front. It is in a similar vein regarding apple, I whole heartedly agree with you, people will buy because of the Apple logo, but I think many are more technologically aware these days and see beyond the razzmatzz of the Apple store and the Apple logo, at least I like to think people are and therefore are able to look beyond Apple and pay those same, or similar prices for a device which does the same thing, but is not an Apple. As an aside, my Galaxy Tab came as part of a contract with no upfront fee. I could have paid a little more for the original iPad, I didn't and went with Samsung (the no upfront fee had nothing to do with it as I originally had to pay 50 pounds which was readjusted to zero after I pressed them). Are there more people like me who do not automatically think Apple? I like to think so and I like to think the more people like me who make those sorts of decisions, the more wary Apple get of their rivals.

At any rate, something has rattled Apple's cage and if it is not the upsurge in Android tabs, what is it that is causing all these lawsuits? Perhaps if Apple go after the big boys first, the small fry will topple soon after.
Matt D
09-09-2011
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Opera mini is a useful cache cloud type browser for low powered devices or low bandwidth networks.

The full Opera Mobile browser is banned.”

Ah, fair enough. Same reasons as Firefox then I guess: alternate browsers must only use WebKit.

Originally Posted by Dai13371:
“<snip>”

Some fair points there.

Re. the experience... True, it's a personal thing. You and others prefer the feel of Android, others prefer iOS. I know people who have used the iPad and the Xoom and other Android tablets, and wholeheartedly prefer the iPad (including an IT guy and his non-techy wife & MIL), while others adore Android. A lot obviously comes down to what you want. Some people want the openness, the customisability, etc. of Android, while others simply don't care about that and a perfectly happy with iOS.

Re. apps... What are non-Honeycomb apps like on a tablet? How well do they run, how do they look, etc.? On the iPad, there is a big difference between iPad-specific apps & "universal" (iPad/iPhone apps) versus trying to use an app only really meant for the iPhone.


I do agree that more people do look beyond brand and image now, but I think it's still a major factor in the tablet market, and Apple is still so far ahead of the competition when it comes to that and other things. As for an upsurge... I don't think there is one. Check the sales figures from before... They're pretty much insignificant when compared to the iPad sales. Yes, there are more non-Apple tablets available now, compared to last year, but none of them have come anywhere near the sales the iPad has. 500,000 in one quarter is a drop in the ocean compared to over 9 million in one quarter.

As I said before, the Tab 10.1 is a lovely device. Hell, if I was an Android user instead of an iOS user, I'd probably have one of those instead of an iPad. But I really don't see it being much of a success. I'd hope it would at least outsell the PlayBook & Xoom, but I don't think it will make any serious dent in the iPad's share.

Still, competition is always a good thing. If they all keep trying to out do each other, it's better for us consumers... Well, unless they just stick with suing each other instead...

Roll on Amazon. Also be interesting to see how the new smaller Tabs do too.

I'll be very interested to see Samsung's numbers in a few months time.
alanwarwic
09-09-2011
So the ban is upheld in Germany.

Does that mean all tablets are banned or does Samsung simply have to add 10 mm to its depth?
It will be interesting to see what 'minimalist looks' means when we get to read the summing up.
ACU
12-09-2011
Originally Posted by jollyton:
“Its looks much better then some of the others that are out there....I like the Samsung Note cant wait to buy it”

I love the spec of this device, however there is one problem with it. Its too big to be a mobile, and too small to be a tablet. I dont think it fits into either market, so may suffer as a result.
alanwarwic
14-09-2011
Everything is in its niche.
I'm happy with sub notebook size screen but for leisure I certainly would not wish to carry around both a smartphone and a tablet/notebook.
ACU
04-10-2011
Originally Posted by Matt D:
“I find the whole thing bizarre, and don't agree with Apple's tactics at all, but...

... I would find it strange if it was because of being "deathly scared of losing market share". Apple owns the tablet market, and still has nothing to worry about (until Amazon's comes out?). The original Galaxy Tab didn't do well, the Xoom hasn't done well, the Playbook hasn't done well, and the Touchpad failed so badly it was killed off. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 may be the best Android tablet at the moment, but I wouldn't call it the "greatest rival to the iPad". It's a lovely bit of kit, but I think being priced exactly the same as the iPad 2 kills any chance it has of making a dent in the market.”

It seems are apple are concerned about the threat samsung pose. This article states some of the reasons why apple are going after samsung. The ecosystem and the threat of losing sales to samsung are two reasons.
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