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Old 19-10-2011, 10:34
srhDS
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hmm, so it's 4:3 and with no new FX. Will they also be doing it in Black & White with crackly mono sound?

So apart from Picard having a shinier head, will there be anything to make people want to buy these? I'm not really fussed about watching TNG again, but I really want to watch DS9 again. If this TNG remastering enterprise is not a huge success than they won't do DS9 and I don't see this being a hit, so I doubt there'll be remastered DS9
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Old 19-10-2011, 10:43
Justabloke
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<snip>
I've got TNG on DVD and tried watching it last year. For me it has not aged well. The first two season especially are pretty ropey. But when it is good, it is very good indeed.

<snip>
Now if DS9 was ever released on BR I would definitely go for that. I would gladly sell my DS9 DVDs and go for those on BR
I don't think TNG has aged as well TOS but then I always thought that as a show it took itself a bit too seriously and thats why it hasn't aged IMO
TOS was always hokum dressed up in pretti(ish) clothes
DS9? No, just no. And don't get me started on Voyager
OT.. I'll not be buying TNG on BR at all. its just not that watchable for me anymore
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Old 19-10-2011, 10:54
RebelScum
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I don't think TNG has aged as well TOS but then I always thought that as a show it took itself a bit too seriously and thats why it hasn't aged IMO
TOS was always hokum dressed up in pretti(ish) clothes
DS9? No, just no. And don't get me started on Voyager
OT.. I'll not be buying TNG on BR at all. its just not that watchable for me anymore
DS9? Best of the lot. Can't wait for that to be released on Blu Ray (if it ever happens).
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Old 19-10-2011, 13:26
Justabloke
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DS9? Best of the lot. Can't wait for that to be released on Blu Ray (if it ever happens).
To be fair.. if I had to choose between DS9 and Voyager... I'd sell my tv
nah, I thought the war between the founders / federation / kadassia was ok but by the time they got into all that good stuff, the show was beyond redemption.

Stop reading if you're of a sensitive disposition.
I recently discovered that I don't like any Star Trek anymore.
I dunno if its familiarity, a change in what I want / expect from a TV show but I find them all quite boring now, apart from a few choice episodes. I really do believe its had its day and is now looking so dated that its all but unwatchable. which is why I found the latest Star Trek such a great movie simply because it wasn't Star Trek, it was just a good sci-fi romp dressed up as Star Trek.
Anywhoooo... <Shields up!>
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Old 19-10-2011, 19:01
RebelScum
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To be fair.. if I had to choose between DS9 and Voyager... I'd sell my tv
nah, I thought the war between the founders / federation / kadassia was ok but by the time they got into all that good stuff, the show was beyond redemption.
There was a lot of so so episodes during seasons 1 to 3; but there were also some crackers. If you ignore bad ones, you're still left with a good number of good to very good episodes. imo anyway.


Stop reading if you're of a sensitive disposition.
I recently discovered that I don't like any Star Trek anymore.
I dunno if its familiarity, a change in what I want / expect from a TV show but I find them all quite boring now, apart from a few choice episodes. I really do believe its had its day and is now looking so dated that its all but unwatchable. which is why I found the latest Star Trek such a great movie simply because it wasn't Star Trek, it was just a good sci-fi romp dressed up as Star Trek.
Anywhoooo... <Shields up!>
I do know what you mean, I sometimes go through phases when I'd reather watch anything but Star Trek, but sooner or later I eventually go back to it.

I'm currently doing a DS9 re-watch, before I started I was a bit worried that I wouldnt be able to get back into Trek mode, but thankfully it wasnt a problem.

I always remember the conversation between Quark & Garak in The Way of The Warrior after Quark offers Garak some root beer:

Garak: It's vile.

Quark: I Know. It's so bubbly and cloying and happy.

Garak: Just like the Federation.

Quark: But you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you start to like it.

Garak: It's Insidious.

Quark: Just like the Federation.

Replace "the Federation" with "Star Trek" and the same truth applies.
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Old 19-10-2011, 19:06
soulboy77
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TNG has aged very badly but i would like to see new life breathed into it....
Anyone noticed a real difference between the video quality of the first two series of TNG and subsequent ones?
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Old 19-10-2011, 19:46
starsailor
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There was a lot of so so episodes during seasons 1 to 3; but there were also some crackers. If you ignore bad ones, you're still left with a good number of good to very good episodes. imo anyway.

I do know what you mean, I sometimes go through phases when I'd reather watch anything but Star Trek, but sooner or later I eventually go back to it.

I'm currently doing a DS9 re-watch, before I started I was a bit worried that I wouldnt be able to get back into Trek mode, but thankfully it wasnt a problem.

I always remember the conversation between Quark & Garak in The Way of The Warrior after Quark offers Garak some root beer:

Replace "the Federation" with "Star Trek" and the same truth applies.
I totally agree with those feelings about Star Trek. A lot of it is just...well twee? Cloying? unnatual? Communist??

Theres a lot of TNG which is just, frankly a load of crap.

Take this episode for example:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Justice_%28episode%29

Firstly. What on earth are they doing on the planet in the first place, as seemingly that breaks the Prime Directive (oh yes...the Prime Directive) in the first place. Then when Wesley (oh god Wesley) steps on some plants and gets scentenced to be executed,, Picard has some kind of crisis of ethics to save him becuase of the damn Prime Directive.

Screw it...just go and get him. Just tell them the laws stupid, and grow a pair Picard.. Kirk would have done that, and banged some of the alien chicks for good measure.

At least DS9 tried to move away from the 'oh so good and high' Federation view. I'd be there with the Ferengi and their holosuite porn..
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Old 19-10-2011, 20:55
porkpie
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Glad it will be 4:3.
Fans didn't bother to buy Thunderbirds because ITV cropped the Blurays but Space 1999, The Prisoner and Star Trek all went down well as they were what we wanted .

These classic tv releases should not pander to those unable to watch with black bars.
If its that much of a problem they can watch it on CBS Drama who also screened the TOS bodgeup
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Old 19-10-2011, 21:11
blueisthecolour
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I reckon they should reshoot the entire TNG series shot for shot in HD widescreen.

Job done.
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Old 19-10-2011, 22:46
1lennonlove
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Finally I can also reveal my sadness and confess I can't hack ST TNG. So pompous, smug and beige. Patrick Stewart is no better than a block of wood (why didn't I see that?) Any storyline sans the Borg was dreadful, support acting was terrible as well. It's just awful.

And yet I still adore ST TOS. Life is a brighter place for seeing William Shatner act out an emotional scene! Perfect.

I would buy The Best of Both Worlds if it came out on Blue Ray as that made a better film that any of the real Next Gen films.
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Old 19-10-2011, 23:44
porkpie
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Finally I can also reveal my sadness and confess I can't hack ST TNG. So pompous, smug and beige. Patrick Stewart is no better than a block of wood (why didn't I see that?) Any storyline sans the Borg was dreadful, support acting was terrible as well. It's just awful.

And yet I still adore ST TOS. Life is a brighter place for seeing William Shatner act out an emotional scene! Perfect.

I would buy The Best of Both Worlds if it came out on Blue Ray as that made a better film that any of the real Next Gen films.
I agree that TNG has not aged well.
The first 3 seasons were heavily influenced by Roddenberry and his vision of the perfect crew in a perfect universe.

Its no coincidence that the series didn't really become interesting until his involvement ended with his death toward the latter half of season 3.

The same thing happened when Gene Coon took control of TOS halfway through season 1 - and look how it improved.

The rogues and imperfect people of DS9 and Voyager would not have been to GR liking but they do make for more interesting programmes.

So the problems with the pompous first 2 seasons make them hard to watch .
I do wonder if DS9 would ever have come about had GR remained involved with TNG for longer.

There are some interesting stories in season 1 and 2 but there are far too many that are naff and even the good ones have their naff elements.
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Old 19-10-2011, 23:59
RebelScum
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Roddenberry passed away during the filming of season 5 (during the filming of Hero Worship to be precise), although by that point ill health had forced him to take a back seat. Apparently he agreed in principal with the general DS9 concept but just how much actual detail was discussed with him will never truly be known.
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Old 20-10-2011, 10:45
Justabloke
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<snip>Replace "the Federation" with "Star Trek" and the same truth applies.
Thing is I'm pretty sure that sums up my issue with TNG... in fact I've always had that issue with TNG but chose to ignore it, these days I find it gets in the way, perhaps I've just become too cynical to believe that society would ever wind up that way. For me B5 was always a more convincing vision of the futuer of mankind.
I totally agree with those feelings about Star Trek. A lot of it is just...well twee? Cloying? unnatual? Communist??

Theres a lot of TNG which is just, frankly a load of crap.
<snip>.
I think this is also a good summation of how I feel... it was far too preachy.

Finally I can also reveal my sadness and confess I can't hack ST TNG. So pompous, smug and beige. Patrick Stewart is no better than a block of wood (why didn't I see that?) Any storyline sans the Borg was dreadful, support acting was terrible as well. It's just awful.

And yet I still adore ST TOS. Life is a brighter place for seeing William Shatner act out an emotional scene! Perfect.

I would buy The Best of Both Worlds if it came out on Blue Ray as that made a better film that any of the real Next Gen films.
Well done... don't you feel better for getting it off your chest?
The only problem I have with TOS is that I've seen it all sooooooo many times that it can longer hold my attention... after all I saw it all first time round
I think at the death, Trek will *always* have a place in my heart, its just not what I need from a TV show anymore.
RS I agree the final season or so of DS9 were actually pretty good but by the time it had got there , it had squandered my good will and I wasn't willing to invest any more time on it.
I think the problem with TNG can be summed up in two words.... Wesley Crusher.

Er... Sorry RS I appear to have dragged your thread off topic
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Old 20-10-2011, 12:20
srhDS
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Picard has some kind of crisis of ethics to save him becuase of the damn Prime Directive.

Screw it...just go and get him. Just tell them the laws stupid, and grow a pair Picard.. Kirk would have done that, and banged some of the alien chicks for good measure.
Totally, in TOS the Prime Directive was to not interfer with teh development of a culture, so don't give phasers to folk used to bow and arrows or nuclear power to those using steam engines.
But by the time of TNG it became a general non interferrence policy which is just stupid. Just by being there you're interferring with a culture.

My other niggle with Trek was the lack of money. Not sure how the federation folk were able to afford to buy anything at Quarks as money had been done away with in the Federation.
Doing away with money is all well and good if you're the captain of a starship. spend your time sitting in that chair saying "Make it so", but what about the janitor on the Enterprise? sure he loved cleaning Riker's toilet for no pay...
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Old 20-10-2011, 16:16
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Totally, in TOS the Prime Directive was to not interfer with teh development of a culture, so don't give phasers to folk used to bow and arrows or nuclear power to those using steam engines.
But by the time of TNG it became a general non interferrence policy which is just stupid. Just by being there you're interferring with a culture.


My other niggle with Trek was the lack of money. Not sure how the federation folk were able to afford to buy anything at Quarks as money had been done away with in the Federation.
Doing away with money is all well and good if you're the captain of a starship. spend your time sitting in that chair saying "Make it so", but what about the janitor on the Enterprise? sure he loved cleaning Riker's toilet for no pay...
It's a case of PD gone mad!

That was part of the problem with Enterprise because the Vulcans had a 'Prime Directive' which interfered with possible storylines. It's interesting that, in Series 3 of Enterprise, they had much better episodes partly because they didn't care about interfering, like in the episode where they steal, at gun point, a warp coil from an alien ship, leaving it stranded in space.
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Old 20-10-2011, 16:51
performingmonk
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If they're keeping the aspect ratio at 4:3 that must mean there were too many issues with rescanning for 16:9, e.g. visible sets/crew etc.

I've just been reading about the new Friends HD transfers and it seems the show was originally shot with some futureproofing in mind, making sure they had safe edges for a 16:9 image, so the new HD broadcasts and Blu-rays can all be 16:9. It's highly doubtful this was the case on TNG. Though no matter. I would actually prefer to see it in its original 4:3 framing, just like TOS.
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:29
1lennonlove
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Thing is I'm pretty sure that sums up my issue with TNG... in fact I've always had that issue with TNG but chose to ignore it, these days I find it gets in the way, perhaps I've just become too cynical to believe that society would ever wind up that way. For me B5 was always a more convincing vision of the futuer of mankind.

I think this is also a good summation of how I feel... it was far too preachy.


Well done... don't you feel better for getting it off your chest?
The only problem I have with TOS is that I've seen it all sooooooo many times that it can longer hold my attention... after all I saw it all first time round
I think at the death, Trek will *always* have a place in my heart, its just not what I need from a TV show anymore.
RS I agree the final season or so of DS9 were actually pretty good but by the time it had got there , it had squandered my good will and I wasn't willing to invest any more time on it.
I think the problem with TNG can be summed up in two words.... Wesley Crusher.

Er... Sorry RS I appear to have dragged your thread off topic
Thanks feel so much better for admitting that ST TNG has not found a place in my heart. I moved so far beyond ST TOS episodes because I've read all the books (sad I know). Opens up a massive TOS universe.

i recently re-watched the whole of B5 and loved it. I always preferred it to DS9 (sorry).Although I remember at the time you couldn't like both B5 and DS9 and there were horrible fights involving opposing gangs hurling bat'leths and Centauri Koltari at each other during conventions.

Anyway to be fair there were some good ST TNG episodes and as they come out on DVD (if) I will cherry pick the ones I want.
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:33
porkpie
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If they're keeping the aspect ratio at 4:3 that must mean there were too many issues with rescanning for 16:9, e.g. visible sets/crew etc.

.
Most likely because they know buyers don't want the show cropped like the 16:9 TOS versions.

Just because something was shot on film does not mean it was shot in 16:9.

The vast majority of British films up to the 70's were made in 1.66:1 which is barely wider than 4:3.

And all the filmed shows of Britain and the US from the 50's are all 4:3 as they intended.
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:42
Tassium
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On the 4:3 issue the original camera film frame is very likely to have been 4:3 or a near variant.

There probably won't be any leeway to scan wider, only cropping will give 16:9

Of course there might very well be a smidgeon of image area left/right/top/bottom, not enough to avoid cropping though.
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:46
porkpie
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On the 4:3 issue the original camera film frame is very likely to have been 4:3 or a near variant.

There probably won't be any leeway to scan wider, only cropping will give 16:9

Of course there might very well be a smidgeon of image area left/right/top/bottom, not enough to avoid cropping though.
Conversely it does seem as if the original miniseries of V were shot with widescreen in mind.
I think Kenneth Johnson was keen on international theatrical screenings so he seemed to forget that most would see it in 4:3 and rather famously there were constant appearances of the boom mic at the top of the frame when it was aired here.

Johnson got his way with the dvd's and they do actually look pretty good in widescreen . Johnsons commentary claims thats the way he always wanted them to be seen .
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Old 20-10-2011, 20:57
Tassium
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I didn't know V(miniseries version) was filmed that way, what a pity the producers of TNG didn't have that foresight.
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Old 20-10-2011, 23:12
Gordie1
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On the 4:3 issue the original camera film frame is very likely to have been 4:3 or a near variant.

There probably won't be any leeway to scan wider, only cropping will give 16:9

Of course there might very well be a smidgeon of image area left/right/top/bottom, not enough to avoid cropping though.
From what i understand, it was shot 4:3, however within that frame there was a "TV safe" 4;3 box which it was further cropped to, so there is a fair bit more image both at the bottom,top and sides.
So if they so desired they could crop it to 16:9 without any loss of existing image at the top or bottom.
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Old 21-10-2011, 10:15
Justabloke
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Thanks feel so much better for admitting that ST TNG has not found a place in my heart. I moved so far beyond ST TOS episodes because I've read all the books (sad I know). Opens up a massive TOS universe.

i recently re-watched the whole of B5 and loved it. I always preferred it to DS9 (sorry).Although I remember at the time you couldn't like both B5 and DS9 and there were horrible fights involving opposing gangs hurling bat'leths and Centauri Koltari at each other during conventions.

Anyway to be fair there were some good ST TNG episodes and as they come out on DVD (if) I will cherry pick the ones I want.
yes, I agree there are definately some real diamonds in amongst the paste of TNG.
I was always more of a B5 than DS9, as I said before I found it a more convincing vision of the future but I'm sure you'll agree there are some dreadful episodes in amongst the good stuff... particularly in the first couple of seasons.
I'd probably consider B5 on blue ray... mind you I'd have to buy a BR player first
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Old 21-10-2011, 10:17
leithlad
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Thanks feel so much better for admitting that ST TNG has not found a place in my heart. I moved so far beyond ST TOS episodes because I've read all the books (sad I know). Opens up a massive TOS universe.

i recently re-watched the whole of B5 and loved it. I always preferred it to DS9 (sorry).Although I remember at the time you couldn't like both B5 and DS9 and there were horrible fights involving opposing gangs hurling bat'leths and Centauri Koltari at each other during conventions.

Anyway to be fair there were some good ST TNG episodes and as they come out on DVD (if) I will cherry pick the ones I want.
I collected both DS9 and B5 on vhs at the same time both so different both sooo good though at 13 quid a pop for 2 eppys a small fortune was paid a golden era for sftv fans imo.
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Old 21-10-2011, 20:54
porkpie
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I recorded them off air from C4 and have all the dvd's so I really must get round to watching Babylon 5 at some point.
Never watched an episode ever.
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