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Old 14-09-2011, 00:22
The Difference
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Talksport would be foolish to be sending commentators out to games which have very little interest to their listeners, and are in the middle of the night anyway. Just like they did at many games at the FIFA World Cup last year.

As long as the commentators are at the ground for the important games, it's not a massive issue, unless they are claiming to be in the ground.
Exactly. The games they are off-tubing are the kind that would have received no on-site presence or live reports on from BBC Radio 5 Live during previous Rugby World Cups when they held the radio rights to the tournament. To me it's a non-issue.
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Old 14-09-2011, 08:25
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talkSPORT

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group D
Samoa v Namibia - Russell Hargreaves and Michael Owen (03:30 commentary)

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group A
Tonga v Canada - Rupert Bell and Jeff Probyn (06:00 online commentary, updates on AM & DAB)

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group B
Scotland v Georgia - John Taylor and Brian Moore (08:30 commentary)
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Old 14-09-2011, 12:12
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Wednesday 14th September - talkSPORT

Mike Bovill presented Rugby World Cup Exclusive from Rugby Park, Invercargill (3-6am), followed by The Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast with Alan and Ronnie Irani (6-8am) and Rugby World Cup Exclusive with Mark Saggers from Dunedin (8-10.30am)

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group D
Samoa v Namibia - Russell Hargreaves and Michael Owen (03:30 commentary)

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group A
Tonga v Canada - Rupert Bell and Jeff Probyn (06:00 online commentary, updates on AM & DAB)

Rugby World Cup 2011: Group B
Scotland v Georgia - John Taylor and Brian Moore (08:30 commentary)
There was no Scottish pundit providing analysis during the Scotland v Georgia game, although Stuart Cameron was reporting from Invercargill. They also had Andrew McKenna on during the first half hour of their coverage this morning reporting from the England camp in Queenstown.

It's the second time Mike Bovill has presented his leg of Rugby World Cup Exclusive from a stadium hosting a game involving a home nation later that day. I guess he's doubled up as the producer of their coverage of Ireland v USA and Scotland v Georgia, seeing as Villa Matt has been with Mark Saggers in Dunedin on both days.
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Old 15-09-2011, 08:32
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Rugby World Cup 2011: Pool C
Russia v USA - Russell Hargreaves and Chris Sheasby (08:30 online commentary, updates on AM & DAB)
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Old 16-09-2011, 08:50
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talkSPORT & BFBS 2

Mark Saggers presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive live from Dunedin.

Rugby World Cup 2011: Pool A
New Zealand v Japan - Rupert Bell and Jeff Probyn (09:00 commentary)
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Old 17-09-2011, 08:45
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Saturday 17th September - talkSPORT

Mike Bovill presented Rugby World Cup Exclusive from Auckland (4-6.30am), followed by the Rugby World Cup Sports Breakfast with Mark Saggers in Dunedin (6.30-12noon)

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool B
Argentina v Romania - John Anderson and Jeff Probyn (4.30am commentary)

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool D
South Africa v Fiji - Rupert Bell and Michael Owen (7am commentary)

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool C
Australia v Ireland - John Taylor and David Campese with Paul Wallace (9.30am commentary), with David Brady reporting
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Old 18-09-2011, 04:14
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Sunday 18th September - talkSPORT

Mike Bovill presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive from the Otaga Stadium, Dunedin (4-6.30am), followed by the Rugby World Cup Sports Breakfast with Mark Saggers also at the Otaga Stadium, Dunedin (6.30-12noon - to be joined by Micky Quinn in London after 9am)

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool D
Wales v Samoa - Rupert Bell and Michael Owen (4.30am commentary), with Roger Hughes reporting

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool B
England v Georgia - John Taylor and Brian Moore (7am commentary), with Andrew McKenna reporting

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool A
France v Canada - Russell Hargreaves and Chris Sheasby (9.30am talkSPORT.co.uk commentary, with updates on AM and DAB)
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Old 18-09-2011, 07:22
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Was funny listening to Five Live this morning. They know a lot of the audience is going to watch the game on TV. But I guess to support BBC1 they were talking a lot about the Great North Run. Though a popular Athletics event, I think in a way nice that a 'minority' sport was being focused on by our Public Service Broadcaster, allowing TalkSport to cover more extensively the more commercial England Rugby team.
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Old 18-09-2011, 08:59
swansea steve
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Was funny listening to Five Live this morning. They know a lot of the audience is going to watch the game on TV. But I guess to support BBC1 they were talking a lot about the Great North Run. Though a popular Athletics event, I think in a way nice that a 'minority' sport was being focused on by our Public Service Broadcaster, allowing TalkSport to cover more extensively the more commercial England Rugby team.
5live often cover the Great North Run.
I think its fair to say that the only reason for not having more extensive rugby coverage was the lack of radio rights the BBC holds and not a wish to cover more minority events instead of the rugby.

managed to listen to my first bit of coverage today on TS of the Wales game. while I don't like Rupert Bell as much on rugby as the other sports he covers, I think he did a pretty good job and Mike Bovill was a pretty good hoast for the show.
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:00
franchise
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5live often cover the Great North Run.
Not a great event for radio though, and really, not that important. Waste of time to be honest.

5Live have to be careful, some of their reports have been bordering on commentary at times.
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Old 18-09-2011, 18:22
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talkSPORT

Mike Bovill presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive from the Otaga Stadium, Dunedin (4-6.30am).

Rugby World Cup 2011 Pool D
Wales v Samoa - Rupert Bell and Michael Owen (4.30am commentary), with Roger Hughes reporting
BBC Radio Cymru - Gareth Rhys Owen (studio host) with Emyr Lewis as studio guest, (occasionally used for in game analysis) with commentary by Gareth Charles and Ken Owens

BBC Radio Five Live - Alistair Eykyn (half hourly updates)
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Old 18-09-2011, 18:55
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Great game between France and Canada this morning, nothing on talk sport.

I wonder whether this coverage is alienating their core (football) audience. The rest of the presenters clearly don't care for or about the RWC so why are they doing it?

Any ABC1 advertisers they bring in will desert them when its over. During the above game they were still talking about Arsenal Blackburn

The coverage is poor (Brian Moore aside) John Taylor had several misnaming moments this morning and that was with the England team. I know he's Welsh but...
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Old 18-09-2011, 19:34
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Great game between France and Canada this morning, nothing on talk sport.
There was live commentary on the website for those that wanted it. This is the first tournament that live commentary has been made available from a radio station for every match.

It was only a great game for a short while, after that it was the predicted walkover (France won 46-19). The smaller teams can only make it a contest for a time and that's why there are few really great games in the pool stages.

On this occasion talkSPORT made the right commercial decision to avoid people switching off during Sunday peak-time (late breakfast). They had already broadcast two live commentaries by that time.

I'm prepared to forecast here and now that France & New Zealand will qualify from that pool and the other teams are just making up the numbers.
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Old 18-09-2011, 20:09
Iworkinradio
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There was live commentary on the website for those that wanted it. This is the first tournament that live commentary has been made available from a radio station for every match.

It was only a great game for a short while, after that it was the predicted walkover (France won 46-19). The smaller teams can only make it a contest for a time and that's why there are few really great games in the pool stages.

On this occasion talkSPORT made the right commercial decision to avoid people switching off during Sunday peak-time (late breakfast). They had already broadcast two live commentaries by that time.

I'm prepared to forecast here and now that France & New Zealand will qualify from that pool and the other teams are just making up the numbers.
Moz, is that you?

I was in the car, so website not a lot of use.

Your argument about switch off sums it up for me.

The TS audience don't want Rugby at any time, they are white van man football supporters (nothing wrong with that, just a statement) so why give them something they don't want?

Will this arguement apply to quarter finals and semi finals? The likely argentina v all blacks QF is also Sunday late breakfast. Will that be off tube on the website too?

Pretty poor effort for both Rugby fans and TS listeners.

The problem is that TS want to appeal to an affluent audience they don't have, but don't have the skills or shows to reach that audience
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Old 18-09-2011, 20:17
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Willt his arguement apply to quarter finals and semi finals? The likely argentina v all blacks QF is also Sunday late breakfast. Will that be off tube on the website too?
No, all matches involving home nations and knockout matches will be broadcast live, just as Wales v South Africa was last Sunday (9.30am KO).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...-talksport-itv

I think it's more likely to be Scotland v the All Blacks but we'll find out next Sunday.

As you were in the car, do you think France v Canada would have been live on 693/909 if 5 Live had the rights? I think we both know the answer to that is no, especially with the Great North Run also going on. The Irish broadcaster RTÉ Radio is only broadcasting commentaries on the pool matches involving Ireland, and that's in a major rugby-playing country.
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Old 18-09-2011, 20:29
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I think it's more likely to be Scotland v the All Blacks but we'll find out next Sunday
I dunno like could be NZ v either of the two, close on to call.

As you were in the car, do you think France v Canada would have been live on 693/909 if 5 Live had the rights? I think we both know the answer to that is no, especially with the Great North Run also going on.
Spot on 5live wouldn't have aired it, doesn't mean that's necessarily a good idea though, and TalkSport don't have the GNR excuse. And I mean ITV thought it was big enough for ITV1....
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Old 18-09-2011, 20:31
Iworkinradio
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No, all matches involving home nations and knockout matches will be broadcast live, just as Wales v South Africa was last Sunday (9.30am KO).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...-talksport-itv

I think it's more likely to be Scotland v the All Blacks but we'll find out next Sunday.

As you were in the car, do you think France v Canada would have been live on 693/909 if 5 Live had the rights? I think we both know the answer to that is no, especially with the Great North Run also going on. The Irish broadcaster RTÉ Radio is only broadcasting commentaries on the pool matches involving Ireland, and that's in a major rugby-playing country.
I don't know the answer to that, not comparing TS/5 Live, just saying don't think TS coverage is very good.

I don't remember what they did in 2003 which is the last comparable example in terms of time.
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Old 18-09-2011, 21:30
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Iworkinradio - is there anything that you actually like about talkSPORT's coverage other than Brian Moore's involvement?

The majority of your posts on here have been overwhelmingly negative, with you seemingly only looking to extenuate perceived minus points about the station's efforts, which personally I find very surprising as from where I'm standing talkSPORT's coverage has been largely excellent, not to mention far more in-depth than the coverage offered on previous tournaments by Radio 5 Live. To be blunt, I think you're being unduly harsh and some of your criticisms make it seem as if you're looking for sticks to beat the station with quite honestly.

I am certain that all four quarter-finals, both semi-finals and the final will go out live on talkSPORT's AM and DAB platforms, regardless of who is involved. I think they may have already confirmed this on-air. Due to it taking place during their weekday Sports Breakfast spot, it's possible the Third Place Play-Off might air on talkSPORT.co.uk only should the game not involve a home nation, but I think that's understandable.

I also agree with SouthCity's sensible and well rationalised posts about why talkSPORT management haven't aired every game in peak timeslots where there core audience will usually expect something different - although it should be mentioned that they have broadcast a few games not involving any of the home nations in what is usually airtime for the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast and Keys & Gray, two of the biggest football-dominated programmes on the station.

As for how many games Radio 5 Live broadcast during the 2003 and 2007 Rugby World Cups, I dipped into the BBC Press Office website for a definitive answer.

At the Australia 2003 tournament, their press release from the time says they planned to cover "every single game played by England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland" and "the quarter finals, semi finals and the final live" on 5 Live with "many matches" involving "the remaining Six Nations sides and the southern hemisphere heavyweights New Zealand, South Africa and hosts Australia" going out on 5 Live Sports Extra: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre...ve_rugby.shtml

At the France 2007 tournament, their press release from then says would air "all games involving the home nations" plus France v Argentina, South Africa v Samoa and Australia v Fiji on 5 Live OR Sports Extra, with "the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final will all be broadcast live on 5 Live, with the third place play-off live on Sports Extra": http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre...29/rugby.shtml

With talkSPORT due to provide live commentary on every game of the tournament, with only a fraction of them (just four of the 19 fixtures played so far) going out online only, their coverage will encompass far more live games than that of BBC Radio at any previous Rugby World Cup.
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Old 18-09-2011, 22:40
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Rugby World Cup 2011: why listening to sport on the radio will always be a turn-off for the younger generation - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...eneration.html
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Old 18-09-2011, 22:48
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I am certain that all four quarter-finals, both semi-finals and the final will go out live on talkSPORT's AM and DAB platforms, regardless of who is involved. I think they may have already confirmed this on-air. Due to it taking place during their weekday Sports Breakfast spot, it's possible the Third Place Play-Off might air on talkSPORT.co.uk only should the game not involve a home nation, but I think that's understandable.
That is certainly the case.

Saturday 8th October and Sunday 9th October will have Rugby World Cup Breakfast between 05:00-12:00 on both days for live commentary of each of the Quarter Final matches (06:00 and 08:30 kick-offs).

I'll post the upcoming match schedule for talkSPORT in the next couple of days or so.
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Old 18-09-2011, 22:49
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Some further thoughts on a few of your assumptions...

The rest of the presenters clearly don't care for or about the RWC so why are they doing it?
If they are, they are doing a good job of hiding it. As a regular listener to the station, I've got the impression that the vast majority of their presenters are at least fairly engaged with the tournament and all of them seem happy to ask their guests questions about the sport and the Rugby World Cup.

Yes, I know you would expect a lot of cross-promotion but to me the bulk of the presenters don't sound disinterested in the subject.

Any ABC1 advertisers they bring in will desert them when its over.
We'll see, but I highly doubt it. They already have a number of ABC1 advertisers on their football coverage and have managed to attract sponsorships from the likes of Ford and The Times since their TWG ownership days, when their product was far less well known and respected than it is today.

Nivea for Men, one of their two main Rugby World Cup sponsors widely viewed as an ABC1 brand, also sponsored their football World Cup coverage in 2010, so it wouldn't be unusual for them to return to the fold for their coverage of Euro 2012, if not before then.

The TS audience don't want Rugby at any time, they are white van man football supporters (nothing wrong with that, just a statement) so why give them something they don't want?
A sweeping generalisation that has long been proven to be untrue. If the talkSPORT audience don't want rugby union "at any time", why has the station persevered with a rugby union programme for over a year, why did they buy the rights to the Rugby World Cup in the first place and why are sponsors and advertisers willing to commit to their coverage? I suspect that statement isn't true either.

The likely argentina v all blacks QF is also Sunday late breakfast. Will that be off tube on the website too?
Given that they were on-site for commentary on New Zealand v Tonga on the opening Friday of the tournament and they were on-site for New Zealand v Japan this Friday, with commentary on both games being broadcast on AM and DAB in timeslots that would normally accommodate the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast and Keys & Gray show, why wouldn't a possible New Zealand v Argentina/Scotland quarter-final be given the same treatment? (Thanks to 4-4-2 for confirming that all knockout games will be on all platforms).

The problem is that TS want to appeal to an affluent audience they don't have, but don't have the skills or shows to reach that audience
According to an article from last month, 47% of the existing talkSPORT audience are ABC1 men. That's a large chunk of their current listenership wouldn't you say?

As for not having the skills or shows to reach that audience - well that's your opinion, one I strongly disagree with, but the proof is in the pudding and their RAJAR data shows that they are reaching their largest ever audience which is highly skewed towards the kind of consumers that appeal to ABC1 advertisers, so they must be doing something right in this respect.

So many of your assumptions about talkSPORT and its audience are clearly untrue. I found it amusing that you immediately chose to jokingly suggest that SouthCity is Moz Dee after he decided to challenge a few of your views in a fair and reasonable manner. If anyone's impartiality should come into question...
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Old 19-09-2011, 07:04
Iworkinradio
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you can get away from the truth that the RWC doesn't fit on TS.

It doesn't fit with the rest of the output, the presenters or the core audience.

In the last few years TS have tried to move the goalsposts by sacking Whale and Gaunt, recruiting Saggers, they might even recuit a woman one day but the RWC is an vanity purchase the management in an attempt to prove they have an audience they don't

you talk about the lack of cross promotion by presenters as if its a minor irritation. I'd say that shows a major problem with stratetgy and discispline

is there anything that you actually like about talkSPORT's coverage other than Brian Moore's involvement?
If I'm honest, not much. I've never been a fan of JT as a commentator and I think there's a real issue about his voice on MW, Its disappears.

And Rupert Bell would be better sticking to the 3.30 at Fakenham
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Old 19-09-2011, 08:28
4-4-2
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Tuesday September 20
Italy Vs. Russia: Trafalgar Park, Nelson, 08:30 - online commentary

Wednesday September 21
Tonga Vs. Japan: Northland Events Centre, Whangarei, 08:30 - online commentary

Thursday September 22
South Africa Vs. Namibia: North Harbour Stadium, Auckland, 09:00 - online commentary

Friday September 23
Australia Vs. USA: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 09:30 - online commentary

Saturday September 24 
Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 06:00-12:00
England Vs. Romania: Otago Stadium, Dunedin, 07:00 - commentary with John Taylor and Brian Moore
New Zealand Vs. France: Eden Park, Auckland, 09:30 - commentary with Andrew McKenna and David Campese

Sunday September 25
Mike Bovill presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive 03:00-05:00, with Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 05:00-12:00
Fiji Vs. Samoa: Eden Park, Auckland, 03:30 - commentary with Russell Hargreaves and Michael Owen
Ireland Vs. Russia: Rotorua International Stadium, Rotorua, 06:00 - commentary with Rupert Bell and Jeff Probyn
Argentina Vs. Scotland: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 08:30 - commentary with John Taylor and Brian Moore

Monday September 26
Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Breakfast 06:00-10:00
Wales Vs. Namibia: Stadium Taranaki, New Plymouth, 07:30 - commentary with Rupert Bell and Michael Owen

Tuesday September 27
Canada Vs. Japan: McLean Park, Napier, 05:00 - online commentary
Italy Vs. USA: Trafalgar Park, Nelson, 07:30 - online commentary

Wednesday September 28

Georgia Vs. Romania: Arena Manawatu, Palmerston North, 07:30 - online commentary

Friday September 30
Mark Saggers presenting Rugby World Cup Live 08:00-10:30
South Africa Vs. Samoa: North Harbour Stadium: Auckland, 08:30 - commentary with Rupert Bell and Michael Owen

Saturday October 1
Mike Bovill presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive 03:00-06:00, with Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 06:00-12:00
Australia Vs. Russia: Trafalgar Park, Nelson, 03:30 - commentary with John Anderson and Chris Sheasby
France Vs. Tonga: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 06:00 - online commentary
England Vs. Scotland: Eden Park, Auckland, 08:30 - commentary with John Taylor and Brian Moore

Sunday October 2
Mike Bovill presenting Rugby World Cup Exclusive 00:00-05:30, with Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 05:30-12:00
Argentina Vs. Georgia: Arena Manawatu, Palmerston North, 01:00 - commentary with TBC
New Zealand Vs. Canada: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 03:30 - commentary with TBC
Wales Vs. Fiji: Waikato Stadium, Hamilton, 06:00 - commentary with John Taylor and Brian Moore
Ireland Vs. Italy: Carisbrook, Dunedin, 08:30 - commentary with Andrew McKenna and David Campese

Saturday October 8
Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 05:00-12:00
QF1 Winner Pool C Vs. Runner-up Pool D: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 06:00 - commentary with TBC
QF2 Winner Pool B Vs. Runner-up Pool A: Eden Park, Auckland, 08:30 - commentary with TBC

Sunday October 9
Mark Saggers presenting the Rugby World Cup Weekend Sports Breakfast 05:00-12:00
QF3 Winner Pool D Vs. Runner-up Pool C: Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington, 06:00 - commentary with TBC
QF4 Winner Pool A Vs. Runner-up Pool B: Eden Park, Auckland, 08:30 - commentary with TBC
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Old 19-09-2011, 10:14
The Difference
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you can get away from the truth that the RWC doesn't fit on TS.
That's not "the truth" - that's an assumption on your part, and as shown in my previous post, a number of your other assumptions have been debunked as myths.

I notice you've not addressed any of the other points about talkSPORT's audience actually being a lot more affluent than you'd care to admit or how ABC1 companies have long been a staple of the station's advertisers. It's easier to make cheap shots about Rupert Bell than attempt to argue your corner in a losing battle, I guess.

So what if UTV Radio management have "tried to move the goalposts" in recent years and are again trying something new? Looking at their better than ever audience figures and the commercially attractive demographic they are broadcasting to, this change of direction seems to be working.

Thanks for posting the new scheduling information 4-4-2. It looks like Mark Saggers will remain as their main presenter until the end of the tournament, so I wonder if Mike Bovill will stick around in New Zealand for Full Contact and reporting duties or if he'll fly home after the group stage?

For the record, only 12/13 of the 48 matches at the tournament will be online-only commentaries going by that information. That means they will air commentaries on 35/36 games on analogue radio; in comparison the BBC would have only broadcast 23 live games on 5 Live in 2003 and less than that number in 2007.
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Old 19-09-2011, 10:44
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That's not "the truth" - that's an assumption on your part, and as shown in my previous post, a number of your other assumptions have been debunked as myths.

I notice you've not addressed any of the other points about talkSPORT's audience actually being a lot more affluent than you'd care to admit or how ABC1 companies have long been a staple of the station's advertisers. It's easier to make cheap shots about Rupert Bell than attempt to argue your corner in a losing battle, I guess.

So what if UTV Radio management have "tried to move the goalposts" in recent years and are again trying something new? Looking at their better than ever audience figures and the commercially attractive demographic they are broadcasting to, this change of direction seems to be working.

Thanks for posting the new scheduling information 4-4-2. It looks like Mark Saggers will remain as their main presenter until the end of the tournament, so I wonder if Mike Bovill will stick around in New Zealand for Full Contact and reporting duties or if he'll fly home after the group stage?

For the record, only 12/13 of the 48 matches at the tournament will be online-only commentaries going by that information. That means they will air commentaries on 35/36 games on analogue radio; in comparison the BBC would have only broadcast 23 live games on 5 Live in 2003 and less than that number in 2007.
talksport's increase in audience is largely due to the extension of its Premier League rights, to suggest anything else is nonsense.

I was in Aus for the 2003 world cup so have no knowledge of that but during 2007 there was extensive coverage of other games in france on 909 693 even when they clashed with live Prem games. During yesterday mornings Arsenal autopsy (part 205) it wasn't even mentioned during the 20 mins I listened in the car. Even thought they don't have the rights, 5 Live provided better coverage despite the GNR.

Do you deny that TS attempt to move their audience upmarket have been pretty clunky? There's nothing "wrong" in what you're trying to do in moving the audience upmarket but I don't think it works.

Quoting Nivea and Ford as an example of ABC1 advertsing is a bit dim. they're top quality companies with huge spends which is great for any commercial station but their products are hardly the preserve of the cotswold set are they? You're still more many times more likely to hear ads and sponsors for sports betting sites than you are for GQ type advertisers UTV craves
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