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A retired Cop's view.
duckymallard
Posts: 13,936 Forum Member
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I spent 32 years as a Police Officer in the UK. Worked all over Scotland and for a time in London.
During those years I was involved in Policing major disturbances including 4 prison riots.
Enough about me though. I have seen the many, many calls for the deployment of the Army. To do what?
Deployment of the Army just means more personnel on the street working under the current leadership of the Met. Furthermore those personnel have no training in Policing.
I notice that the Acting Commissioner has now called up all Special Constables. That's a desperate decision.
So what's the problem? The Police already have access to baton rounds, tear gas etc., yet they appear to be reluctant to make use of these tools.
The problem (imo) started years back, with the sudden increase of lawsuits against Police Authorities for breaching Human Rights etc.
This has caused over that period a fear amongst Police Officers. In my days, if you weren't getting complained about, you weren't doing the job right. Now many of the rank and file have adopted the "if I do nothing - I cannot be complained about" attitude.
This attitude unfortunately goes right to the higher echelons of the Police and in particular the Met.
At this moment following the resignations of the Commish and his Deputy, there are vacancies for promotion. None of the bosses currently in the Met want to deploy tear gas/baton rounds, because they'll go down in history as being the officer who did it first on mainland Britain.
Furthermore, once all this dies down and we go back to the "Police Over-reaction" mindset we have had, that officer can kiss his arse goodbye to further promotion.
I have said this before, but never before has it been so true.
We have the Police Force in this country we deserve. We have hamstrung them with bullshit form filling and ensured that Crime Detection/Prevention is no longer the primary aim of officers.
Nowadays the primary aim of all officers is cover thine arse.
During those years I was involved in Policing major disturbances including 4 prison riots.
Enough about me though. I have seen the many, many calls for the deployment of the Army. To do what?
Deployment of the Army just means more personnel on the street working under the current leadership of the Met. Furthermore those personnel have no training in Policing.
I notice that the Acting Commissioner has now called up all Special Constables. That's a desperate decision.
So what's the problem? The Police already have access to baton rounds, tear gas etc., yet they appear to be reluctant to make use of these tools.
The problem (imo) started years back, with the sudden increase of lawsuits against Police Authorities for breaching Human Rights etc.
This has caused over that period a fear amongst Police Officers. In my days, if you weren't getting complained about, you weren't doing the job right. Now many of the rank and file have adopted the "if I do nothing - I cannot be complained about" attitude.
This attitude unfortunately goes right to the higher echelons of the Police and in particular the Met.
At this moment following the resignations of the Commish and his Deputy, there are vacancies for promotion. None of the bosses currently in the Met want to deploy tear gas/baton rounds, because they'll go down in history as being the officer who did it first on mainland Britain.
Furthermore, once all this dies down and we go back to the "Police Over-reaction" mindset we have had, that officer can kiss his arse goodbye to further promotion.
I have said this before, but never before has it been so true.
We have the Police Force in this country we deserve. We have hamstrung them with bullshit form filling and ensured that Crime Detection/Prevention is no longer the primary aim of officers.
Nowadays the primary aim of all officers is cover thine arse.
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Comments
I totally agree. We need to let the police get on with the job. The IPCC should be abolished too.
So very true, and accurate.
I appreciate your comments, but I look at what happened to Ian Tomlinson when an innocent man died at the hands of a police officer. The police themselves closed ranks until some video footage came to light, and then the truth came out.
I am honestly in two minds about this. I would love to see some of these wee thugs get a good battering off the police, but at the same time we do need the police to have some sort of responsibility and accountability.
I think we have to accept that occasionally the police get it wrong and live with it.
The fact is that the police seem scared to do their job. I'd prefer they were not afraid to get stuck in.
Totally agree.
I wondered how long it was before the Ian Tomlinson case got used against the police in relation to the last evenings events.
Well done!
... Indicates that there is something seriously, SERIOUSLY wrong with the heart and soul of this country that transcends petty political agenda's, etc.
I think most of us would have predicited that this unbridled anarchy was going to occur sooner of later here yet it's nevertheless still shocking to see it happening right here right now.
Well, we certainly don't want to go back to those days, do we, days of the thoroughly bent West Mids. Serious Crimes squad and quite a few police who were not much better than the criminals they were pursuing.
As you say yourself, you were involved in policing major disturbances - if your "good old days" were so good, why were there so many riots?
It is essential that police forces are fully accountable for their actions to the public - otherwise they become, quite literally, a law unto themselves.
Community relations have been a lot better between the police and the people over the last 20 years -let's not throw that away by a hot-head reaction.
Robust policing - but not back to the bad old days of little accountability, and the police closing ranks when criticised.
Personally I think in situations like this all non lethal means should be available, tasers, tear gas, plastic bullets, water cannon etc.
What does that mean, exactly?
Crack a few heads when needed I would imagine.
Is that a problem?
I don't mind that the police can sometimes get it wrong, but we need to be fully confident that when they do get it wrong a full and open enquiry can take place and that the public have full confidence in the findings and any punishment.
I mentioned that the police were not fully honest in regards Tomlinson, as they were in the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, as they were in the case of Harry Stanley, as they have been with the individual that was shot last Thursday.
So they get stuck in and an innocent dies due to the police getting stuck in, what happens then?
Thanks. I suppose becasue you somehow predicted Tomlinson would be mentioned it makes it irrelevant somehow!
If the police are scared then it is because they allowed too many police officers get away with the likes of thing that happened to Tomlinson, and then attempt to cover it up.
Is the problem that the Met isn't a local police force with local responsibilities but is answerable to national government and performs many national roles? So that local policing disappears in a mire of national requirements
As I said yesterday - does the Met need splitting so as to create a local police force like in the rest of the UK & removed from central government control with it's national functions given to a new group?
What? You mean fracture the skulls of looters?
Kids as young as 8 have said to have been involved in this.
Arrest them - legally process and punish them - and make their parents more answerable for them if appropriate. Also, target the older element that were directing the youngsters from their cars.
But maim them? Is that what you want?
Would you class the events of the last 3 nights as Robust Policing?
I certainly wouldn't.
And achieve what exactly? We've been going down that road for the last 20 years or so, to the extent that these folks no longer care about being identified.
Because they know damn well that this bleeding heart society we now have will do bugger all to punish them.
Just take a look at the prisons of today. Televisions and Xbox machines in cells, calls home and up to 50% off your sentence.
What kind of punishment is that?
They might learn how to communicate face to face with real people.
No - the tactics of the police seemed to be wrong.
But your yearning for the old police days of the '70s and '80s (as I said to you earlier) would make a bad situation much worse.
I want the police to be able to use force as they seem fit to disperse civil disobedience. I want the police able to read a proper riot act, and anyone still in the vicinity after 15 mins will feel the full force of the law with NO comeback.
So what are you going to do with young children of 9,10,11 then?
I don't know what you mean by that - as I suspect you don't.