Personally, and IMHO...

Never liked The Beatles, love ABBA!

I am sorry for this but Abba and The Beatles are not even in the same ball park. 'The Beatles' are one of the most influential bands on music TODAY. 'Abba' a camp pop band from Swedan. Tell me if I am wrong here?

The Beatles > ABBA.

Whilst I do like ABBA's singles, like Theshane said, they were primarily a singles act and that's what people shall remember them for.

ABBA are Icons.
The Beatles are Legends.

the opinions of a few music snobs are not worth answering. anyone that has actually listened to abba`s more iconic albums from an objective point of view. would be well aware of how influential they were/are.

I think this is a stupid question because the only similarity is that they are two of the biggest selling groups of All Time.

Accoring to Wikipedia, Beatles are the biggest band of all time, Abba are third or fourth. If you look on Wikipedia, it shows you that The Beatles sold 7.5m, Abba sold nearly double that at 14m.

Yes Abba sold more than The Beatles in the UK! a Lets not forget, Abba's album Super Trouper was the biggest selling album of 1980, and their singles Super Trouper and The Winner Takes It All were also the biggest selling singles of 1980.

Abba also sold nearly triple amount of records in Australia (Beatles 2.3, Abba 6m) and in Germany Beatles sold 7.4m, Abba sold over 10m and that wasn't even considered their biggest market.

So I think Abba is better than Beatles. I think The Beatles first 3 albums are rubbish, (Beatles For Sale is so bad) and only get good in the middle, whereas all Abba's album are brilliant apart Ring Ring which I still think is better than Beatles for Sale, or Love Me Do for that matter.

And Iconic Abba albums?:

Greatest Hits Vol.1 - # 1 for 11 weeks
Arrival - # 1 for 9 weeks
Voulez Vous - #1 for 4 weeks
Super Trouper - # 1 for 9 weeks
The Album - #1 for 7 weeks
The Visitors - #1 for 5 weeks
Abba Gold - #1 for 8 weeks

So there are the iconic albums. I think Abba are better.

Are you serious? I ain't no music snob but what are Abbas iconic albums? Give me an album that stands up to 'Sergent Pepper' or 'The White Album'. You would be lucky for any band to stand up against both of those albums. 'Abba'? seriously? Give me something I can use.

J6ngo1977, are you able to read? I just posted the iconic albums above you. Just because Gold has sold well, it is still an iconic album and just shows that more general people buy Gold instead of Number 1s.

And also, Gold isnt even their best selling album in the UK so shut up. And lets not forget that Greatest Hits Vo.1 stayed at Number 1 in Australia for 16 weeks.

Personally, I think it's more down to a subjective pop history tbh. If you're pop history starts at 70's/80's then you're probably gonna see the relevance and impact that ABBA had on consecutive pop acts. If you're appreciation of pop is prior to the 70's, then you'll probably see The Beatles as being the most influential/important.

Personally, Kraftwerk will always be the top of my most influential band list.

And who decides what is or isn't an "iconic" album?

As I stated in my previous post sales are not an indication of whether something is better or worse than something else.

Once you've taken those out of the equation you're left with quality of lyrics and melody, both of which are down to personal opinion.

Your opinion, my opinion, the opinion of music journalists and everyone else on this planet carries no more and no less weight than anyone else.

So, I'm sorry but the "iconic" album argument is a load of bollocks. Just because you and a bunch of other people have decided that something is 'iconic' it doesn't mean that everyone else has to necessarily agree with you.

Ok you are out of your depth. Abba...... a Swedish pop band. The Beatles ......one of the most influential bands on modern music in EVERY country. I am not a big Beatles fan but comparing Abba to the Beatles is ****in stupid. It's a stupid thread and it really pisses me.

To help us discover these iconic albums and listen to them in an objective way it really would help us know what they are called.

What 'amuses' me is when people like you try to claim that something is better than something else.

It's not something that can be measured and quantified. It's not like you can say Monday was hotter than Sunday because Monday was 20 degrees and Sunday was 18 degrees.

What formula do you use for deciding whether something is better than something else?

If I listed 20 bands on here and asked everyone to list them from best to worst there'd be a myriad of responses because everyone has different tastes.

So just because you and thousands of others think that The Beatles are 'better' than Abba it doesn't mean that you are 'right' and they are 'wrong' or vice versa.

What we really mean is not whether something is 'better' but which of the given options we prefer.

Of course, if you have some "magic formula" for working out precisely whether one band is better than others I'd be most interested to read it.

This is almost laughable.

I have been watching this thread and can totally sympathise with the posts from "GPK" who has mentioned four iconic ABBA albums but has refused to rise to the school-boy backyard challenge that you're making him take, almost saying "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough."

Earlier you highlighted an album that you classed as "iconic" even though it sold only about "ten copies". Okay, I know you were being ironic there, but you defined "iconic" by the quality of the recordings included. That's more of a cult than an icon if it failed to reach an audience. But if that forms the basis of your argument, then just about all ABBAs albums could be classed as "iconic" as it's really hard to top ABBAs song quality output.

But I digress.

Having lived through the ABBA period while they were active, I can quite honestly say that the imagery and symbolism alone was "iconic" and that's before you even touch on the songs.

You claim that ABBA were a mere "singles band". Well, today, with two "greatest hits" albums out there (Gold and More Gold) it must mean that their eight studio albums were filled with some pretty great tunes to enable the filling up of these two Greatest Hits CDs, and even then some singles are missing from the collections. All of these songs must have come from somewhere and in many cases, they came from iconic studio albums that sold in their millions.

ABBA came together quite by accident and their first two albums weren't even properly credited to them as "ABBA" as a name. They just wrote their own material and, as recording artists in Sweden, came together to record these two LPs that almost could be classed as novelty recordings today, even if they do include the odd gem.

It's only when they realised that they were onto something genius that their third, and arguably first coherent album was just Christened "ABBA". But even that album, despite having such pop masterpieces as SOS and Mamma Mia (along with five or six other memorable tunes) could not really be classed as "iconic".

No, that came in 1976 when the iconism and the appeal of ABBA exploded. That was reflected in the name of their fourth, and completely "iconic" studio album "ARRIVAL".

There was nowhere you could go around the world where the impact of the imagery of ABBA in a helicopter wasn't seen everywhere. The tracks such as Knowing Me Knowing You, Money Money Money, Fernando and Dancing Queen were to become legendary - and the iconic imagery of the album was so great that they didn't even have name it after a single.

It absolutely was the confirmed "arrival" of ABBA - and in a helicopter, and they used a snazzy logo with the first B reversed which made such an impact that they've used it ever since.

ARRIVAL was iconic on so many levels, and gave ABBA their first ever No. 1 album in Britain, a feat that would be repeated another seven times over the next seven years.

People in the music business, whether they previously sneered at ABBAs imagery and roots, couldn't deny the masterful tracks that were included on this album that dominated the world's charts for the next two years.

At the time people would even ask what position Tiger, My Love My Life or When I Kissed The Teacher got to in the singles charts because they were so intrinsically linked with the album's flow. But those tracks never even were singles.

In fact, when you think back to ABBA and hear songs such as Honey Honey, When All Is Said And Done, Happy New Year, On And On And On and even Thank You For The Music you might be forgiven for thinking that you'd gone mad because nowhere can you find a record of those songs in the singles chart in Britain. That's because they weren't even released as singles while ABBA were active. They were just famous "album" tracks.

The iconic imagery of ARRIVAL is so huge that the worldwide touring ABBA museum (which lived in London's Earl's Court for much of last winter) has a replica Arrival "helicopter" that everyone clambers over to get photographed in so that they too can mimic that "iconic" album cover.

ABBA albums were evolutionary. They never recorded the same album twice from 1975 onward. They were all self-penned and self produced. Unlike the whole Beatles output. But Andersson/Ulvaeus wanted to be like Lennon and McCartney. They wanted to write songs and to record albums.

Sometimes they'd be bold and brave and do things such as "mini musicals" within their albums, like on 1977's "ABBA The Album", or become dark and moody toward the end of their career like on 1981's "The Visitors", but they never recorded the same album twice after Waterloo.

I have mentioned ARRIVAL. I'd boldy state that there were probably three iconic ABBA albums, not four, beginning with the forementioned ARRIVAL from 1976.

Next I'd also say VOULEZ VOUS from 1979 was iconic. The album totally had a style and look that shrieked "we've made it". It followed a musical style that was big in 1979 and yet this album seem to push those boundaries and make it sound totally fresh. Today the album has spawned seven singles -unheard of for ABBA. At the time, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing this album image and hearing the songs: Chiquitita, Summer Night City, Does Your Mother Know, Angeleyes, Voulez Vous, I Have A Dream and (later) Gimme Gimme Gimme. It's like a greatest hits album without even being one!

Then I'd say Super Trouper from 1980 is iconic. It was such an adult step forward for them in terms of content, production and album fluidity. They realised that their writing and style had evolved so much that there's only a couple of songs with the normal bouncy multi-harmony ABBA style that would once be heard in abundance.

Now, the lyrics were as profound as the melodies and as such it was considered unnatural if sang by two female voices. It was an obvious indicator that Benny and Bjorn were moving into darker and more substantial work which they later did with their final ABBA album The Visitors and their musicals CHESS and Kristina - the latter is regarded as a complete "masterpiece".

And, of course, the Super Trouper album cover image of them standing in amongst a crowd with the giant "super trouper" spotlight singling them out remains another great iconic covershot.

Super Trouper was ABBAs most successful studio album. Ever. And it only includes two officially endorsed singles from the group, one of which being the absolute genius that is The Winner Takes It All. So, if ABBA were just a "singles act", why did this album, and all the others that contained so many non-single tracks, sell so well?

ABBA had hit albums that sold by the bucketload. Sure, it was a long time ago, and nowadays most know 20% of ABBAs output from "ABBA Gold" but if you suggest that that's all that people "know" them for then I'd like to see who bought all those original albums and continue to buy them year after year, because they're always available and constantly being re-packaged and re-issued.

The re-issues must be to cope with the continuing insatiable demand the public seem to have in purchasing the original iconic studio albums from this, er, singles band.

I have written this as someone who's life was influenced by the music of ABBA, quite by accident, in 1977 when I just couldn't escape from the iconic songs and imagery that was around the world surrounding the ARRIVAL album.

I was aware of what was going in in Britain, but sort of ignored it because it didn't seem cool. But when I was in Nigeria and saw the same thing going on there, I sat up and paid attention.

I listened and looked. Properly. I got rid of the preconceptions and discovered what marvels these songs and albums actually were.

So, to answer the thread. Yes, I think that ABBA have indeed had more influence over me than The Beatles. But The Beatles influenced ABBA so everything goes in circles.

But to state that ABBA were just a "singles band" and didn't have any "iconic albums" is just so untrue, completely unfounded and totally unresearched.

ABBAs songs and albums are both iconic and legendary. Certainly evolutionary. And very influential.

Sure, they had some howlers. But then so did The Beatles!

I disagree. music CAN be quantified. I am not knocking Abba. great pop band. However John lennon and Mcartneys song writing was far superior to Abba. Lennon was nor wrong when he said The Beatles wher bigger than Jesus. As I said I am not a Beatles fan but their music reaches s lot more far and wide than Abba. I am a guitar player and song writer and if I could ever write a song in my lifetime as simple as 'Daytripper' I would die happy. Abba? I could not give 2 tosses about any tune they did, unless I was a Saturday night drag act.

I have to agree with pretty much every word of your post.

J6ngo1977, we all know you prefer Beatles but the fact is your an ignorant pr*ck that can't admit that there is other people who prefer Abba, and think Abba is better! And you are obviously very narrow minded if you call Abba a "Saturday Night Drag Act". Thats just boll*cks now.

Are you forgetting that Benny and Bjorn (the writers from Abba) were Swedish, and only started writing English lyrics 4 years before Abba came into existence?

I'm sure if Lennon and McCartney were Swedish, they would not have been able to write The Winner Takes It All. All you are doing now is insulting Abba for the sake of it so just f off.

Wow !

.

How? Please specify.


How do you measure this? What formula do you use to decide whether the lyrics are 'better' or whether the music / melody is 'better'?

There isn't one!

Just be honest and admit that it all comes down to which one you prefer rather than one being "better" than the other.



Unless you've surveyed every single person living on this planet that claim is laughable. With satellite TV & the internet music is far more accessible now than it ever was.



Oh dear. More opinion. Just as I'm sure you could find a shed load of musicians that would wax lyrical about The Beatles and their song writing skills you could equally find others who would tell you all about Abba's complex song construction.


Still waiting for this "formula" that we can use to work out what bands are better than the others.

Come on tell us.

Then I can list 20 or so bands and we can all use your formula to work out which are 'better' than the others. And, because we've used your formula we'll all get exactly the same results........

I don't care for either.

YEAH.

That's right.


I don't care for The Beatles OR Abba!

You may now attack me.

Bloody hell you are big Abba fan. YES you can quantify music by the 'soul' that goes into it. All I am saying is that Abba are not bad but they are not in the same ball park as The Beatles.

To compare The Rolling Stones with The Beatles would be a worthy argument but 'Abba' ? No. I am sorry you can call me as many pri..cks ad you want but I won't stand down

Girls Aloud?

The world and music history have voted.
Abba lost.

Yes, because not liking ABBA or The Beatles automatically means you are a die-hard Girls Aloud fan.

I wish I had your logic.

Amen to that

i am glad that some common sense has been restored in my absence. i was getting concerned that this thread was losing all objectivity. some of the opinions raised were prejudiced, snobby and frankly bigoted.

i have to agree in most part with woutch`s post. although i would add abba - the album 1977 to that list of iconic albums. it was iconic in terms of the quality of sound that progress from arrival. the mini musical at the end of the album was a clear indication of what was to come after abba`s lifespan. there were many highlights on that album.

it is crazy that they only released two uk singles. i`m sure many people would know many more songs from that album.
that together with the film that coincided with the release of this album. i would definitely consider that one of their most iconic eras.

i never said i actually thought that abba was better than the beatles. i took exception to someone citing them as a singles group.