Originally Posted by woutch:
“This is almost laughable.
I have been watching this thread and can totally sympathise with the posts from "GPK" who has mentioned four iconic ABBA albums but has refused to rise to the school-boy backyard challenge that you're making him take, almost saying "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough."
GPK mentioned 4 iconic ABBA albums but then couldn't name them. As I said earlier and I will repeat now, If someone makes a claim is it too much to ask them to back it up?
Earlier you highlighted an album that you classed as "iconic" even though it sold only about "ten copies". Okay, I know you were being ironic there, but you defined "iconic" by the quality of the recordings included. That's more of a cult than an icon if it failed to reach an audience. But if that forms the basis of your argument, then just about all ABBAs albums could be classed as "iconic" as it's really hard to top ABBAs song quality output.
Something doesn't have to have a massive audience to be iconic. Celine Dions Titanic song for example sold millions but its not an iconic song. Theres quality and longevity that result in being Iconic. Loves Album my not have sold many albums at the time but it is regards as an iconic '60's album. Just because ABBA's albums sold big doesn't make them iconic.
But I digress.
Having lived through the ABBA period while they were active, I can quite honestly say that the imagery and symbolism alone was "iconic" and that's before you even touch on the songs.
You claim that ABBA were a mere "singles band". Well, today, with two "greatest hits" albums out there (Gold and More Gold) it must mean that their eight studio albums were filled with some pretty great tunes to enable the filling up of these two Greatest Hits CDs, and even then some singles are missing from the collections. All of these songs must have come from somewhere and in many cases, they came from iconic studio albums that sold in their millions.
They have two greatest hits albums. Two greatest hits albums with singles on them. Not album tracks, cause then it would be a best of, singles. That means they had enough singles to fill two cd's and says nothing about their album tracks.
ABBA came together quite by accident and their first two albums weren't even properly credited to them as "ABBA" as a name. They just wrote their own material and, as recording artists in Sweden, came together to record these two LPs that almost could be classed as novelty recordings today, even if they do include the odd gem.
It's only when they realised that they were onto something genius that their third, and arguably first coherent album was just Christened "ABBA". But even that album, despite having such pop masterpieces as SOS and Mamma Mia (along with five or six other memorable tunes) could not really be classed as "iconic".
No, that came in 1976 when the iconism and the appeal of ABBA exploded. That was reflected in the name of their fourth, and completely "iconic" studio album "ARRIVAL".
There was nowhere you could go around the world where the impact of the imagery of ABBA in a helicopter wasn't seen everywhere. The tracks such as Knowing Me Knowing You, Money Money Money, Fernando and Dancing Queen were to become legendary - and the iconic imagery of the album was so great that they didn't even have name it after a single.
The songs you mention here are all singles. ABBA in a helicopter isn't an iconic image. Stacked boots and silver jump suits are more the iconic image of ABBA. A helicopter is hardly the lips and tongue logo, the single diamond glove, white rhinestone jumpsuit, heck I'd even say Adam Ants white strip across his nose is more recognisable.
It absolutely was the confirmed "arrival" of ABBA - and in a helicopter, and they used a snazzy logo with the first B reversed which made such an impact that they've used it ever since.
ARRIVAL was iconic on so many levels, and gave ABBA their first ever No. 1 album in Britain, a feat that would be repeated another seven times over the next seven years.
People in the music business, whether they previously sneered at ABBAs imagery and roots, couldn't deny the masterful tracks that were included on this album that dominated the world's charts for the next two years.
At the time people would even ask what position Tiger, My Love My Life or When I Kissed The Teacher got to in the singles charts because they were so intrinsically linked with the album's flow. But those tracks never even were singles.
In fact, when you think back to ABBA and hear songs such as Honey Honey, When All Is Said And Done, Happy New Year, On And On And On and even Thank You For The Music you might be forgiven for thinking that you'd gone mad because nowhere can you find a record of those songs in the singles chart in Britain. That's because they weren't even released as singles while ABBA were active. They were just famous "album" tracks.
Thank you for the music was a single in 1983. The rest were singles around the world hence their inclusion on their Greatest hits albums.
Honey honey was not released by ABBA in the uk as a single but a cover went top 10 in 1974.
The iconic imagery of ARRIVAL is so huge that the worldwide touring ABBA museum (which lived in London's Earl's Court for much of last winter) has a replica Arrival "helicopter" that everyone clambers over to get photographed in so that they too can mimic that "iconic" album cover.
Again the helicopter is not iconic of ABBA. You say helicopter, people think Airwolf. Say zebra crossing people will likely say Abbey Road.
ABBA albums were evolutionary. They never recorded the same album twice from 1975 onward. They were all self-penned and self produced. Unlike the whole Beatles output. But Andersson/Ulvaeus wanted to be like Lennon and McCartney. They wanted to write songs and to record albums.
Just looking through the inlay for ABBA Gold and More ABBA Gold yes they were self produced but some songs are co-credited to Stig Anderson. So they didn't quite do it all by themselves.
Also Nobody ever records the same album twice anyway
Sometimes they'd be bold and brave and do things such as "mini musicals" within their albums, like on 1977's "ABBA The Album", or become dark and moody toward the end of their career like on 1981's "The Visitors", but they never recorded the same album twice after Waterloo.
I have mentioned ARRIVAL. I'd boldy state that there were probably three iconic ABBA albums, not four, beginning with the forementioned ARRIVAL from 1976.
Is their mini musical out put that well regarded or even that well known compared to say the second side of Abbey Road or the Who's mini musicals?
Next I'd also say VOULEZ VOUS from 1979 was iconic. The album totally had a style and look that shrieked "we've made it". It followed a musical style that was big in 1979 and yet this album seem to push those boundaries and make it sound totally fresh. Today the album has spawned seven singles -unheard of for ABBA. At the time, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing this album image and hearing the songs: Chiquitita, Summer Night City, Does Your Mother Know, Angeleyes, Voulez Vous, I Have A Dream and (later) Gimme Gimme Gimme. It's like a greatest hits album without even being one!
its like a greatest hits album because all the songs you mentioned were singles and all feature on their greatest hits album. The album cover is also a blue pyramid. I had to look that up.
Then I'd say Super Trouper from 1980 is iconic. It was such an adult step forward for them in terms of content, production and album fluidity. They realised that their writing and style had evolved so much that there's only a couple of songs with the normal bouncy multi-harmony ABBA style that would once be heard in abundance.
Now, the lyrics were as profound as the melodies and as such it was considered unnatural if sang by two female voices. It was an obvious indicator that Benny and Bjorn were moving into darker and more substantial work which they later did with their final ABBA album The Visitors and their musicals CHESS and Kristina - the latter is regarded as a complete "masterpiece".
And, of course, the Super Trouper album cover image of them standing in amongst a crowd with the giant "super trouper" spotlight singling them out remains another great iconic covershot.
Super Trouper was ABBAs most successful studio album. Ever. And it only includes two officially endorsed singles from the group, one of which being the absolute genius that is The Winner Takes It All. So, if ABBA were just a "singles act", why did this album, and all the others that contained so many non-single tracks, sell so well?
So you're asking if a band has a successful group for 5 years and have albums and singles why did people buy the latest album? Also there were 3 UK singles. Supertrooper, The Winner Takes It All and Lay All Your Love On Me.
Again out with the singles the album tracks are not well known. Only Happy New Year, which was a single in Europe and has been on many Christmas compilations is probably well known.
ABBA had hit albums that sold by the bucketload. Sure, it was a long time ago, and nowadays most know 20% of ABBAs output from "ABBA Gold" but if you suggest that that's all that people "know" them for then I'd like to see who bought all those original albums and continue to buy them year after year, because they're always available and constantly being re-packaged and re-issued.
The re-issues must be to cope with the continuing insatiable demand the public seem to have in purchasing the original iconic studio albums from this, er, singles band.
Not taking anything away here but every act that was sucessful has had albums repackaged from ABBA to Slade to Led zep and the Bay City Rollers. Record companies repackage back catalogues to make money. There isn't an insatiable demand for it but we get it. Also not one single ABBA reissue generated anywhere near the interest that either the Beatles remasters or the Beatles Anthology got.
I have written this as someone who's life was influenced by the music of ABBA, quite by accident, in 1977 when I just couldn't escape from the iconic songs and imagery that was around the world surrounding the ARRIVAL album.
I was aware of what was going in in Britain, but sort of ignored it because it didn't seem cool. But when I was in Nigeria and saw the same thing going on there, I sat up and paid attention.
I listened and looked. Properly. I got rid of the preconceptions and discovered what marvels these songs and albums actually were.
So, to answer the thread. Yes, I think that ABBA have indeed had more influence over me than The Beatles. But The Beatles influenced ABBA so everything goes in circles.
But to state that ABBA were just a "singles band" and didn't have any "iconic albums" is just so untrue, completely unfounded and totally unresearched.
ABBAs songs and albums are both iconic and legendary. Certainly evolutionary. And very influential.
Sure, they had some howlers. But then so did The Beatles!
You haven't proven or showed an iconic album. You've talked about songs which were singles. But past the singles there isn't a While My Guitar Gently Weeps or a Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.
People are happy enough to have ABBA Gold and More ABBA Gold because past that there is nothing essential.
The majority of people will not be able to name an ABBA album other than Gold however they will list song after song which were all singles and so ABBA, as good as they were, are a singles band
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Can i just say although I disagree with a lot of what you wrote kudos on the effort. Gold star
