DS Forums

 
 

Do you think ABBA are better than The Beatles?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13-08-2011, 21:29
Lord Voldemort
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,486
I prefer ABBA and say that as "better" is completely an opinion, so I suppose you could say I think they're "better".
Lord Voldemort is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 13-08-2011, 21:32
Rita's Kabin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Weatherfield
Posts: 25,938
and say that as "better" is completely an opinion
Exactly.

It seems that the Beatles fans and Abba fans on this thread have lost sight of ther fact that BETTER IS JUST AN OPINION, not a fact you can prove absolutely.
Rita's Kabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 21:38
Pepperoni Man
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,242
Exactly.

It seems that the Beatles fans and Abba fans on this thread have lost sight of ther fact that BETTER IS JUST AN OPINION, not a fact you can prove absolutely.
That's true - but everyone loves a good debate. I know I do and it's usually only a matter of time before people agree with me
Pepperoni Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 21:39
Pepperoni Man
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,242
If a list was compiled of lets say the 200 greatest albums of all time, I doubt ABBA would be in it?

Unless the resaerch was done in Brighton.
...
Pepperoni Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 21:41
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
The point you're failing to grasp is that there is no concrete test for music. There's no "formula" for deciding whether a song or an album is 'better' than something else.

The worth of a song or album is all down to the person who listens to it and your opinion is no more valid than mine or anyone else's.

Over time, of course, some albums and songs have gained this label of being "great" or iconic" just because a vocal section of people have decided that they are.





Single. Number one for The Overlanders




Single. Reached number 1 for Billy Bragg.




Single. Charted for The Beatles in 1976




Single. Reached Number 10 in 1976 for Steve Harley




More supposition. Until you've carried out a survey as to how well known Beatles tracks and Abba tracks are amongst the general public everything you've said above is pure speculation.
My point is they are all album tracks. The ABBA song I mentioned having been covered was because it was released as a single in this obscure europe place but not in the UK because someone released a cover.

but if you want to run with this
souixe and the banshees covered a beatles song.
So did the stones, Candy Flip, Oasis, Slade and many others.
ABBA were covered by Erasure, The Wedding Present, the Czars, Steps, Westlife and many others

with your last part about supposition, would you be willing to bet that Beatles album tracks are more or less well known than ABBA's?
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 21:48
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
"ABBA don't have great albums. Albums that will last for years and be be passed down generations as being great (iconic) albums"


Erm, how many "generations" are we talking about for a "great" album to still be passed down and played for you to consider it iconic?

And please stop saying that "because a song was released in Europe" it is classed as a single. The world was very different in the 70s and 80s. Nobody knew that a song was a single elsewhere in the world and it certainly wouldn't have contributed to air time on our radio, but it didn't stop the non-single ABBA songs becoming famous in the UK. And why? because millions bought those iconic albums that shaped the 70s and 80s and knew and loved the content.

Who plays those angry songs from the Punk era anymore? Not many! But how many people are listening to Slipping Through My Fingers from the "great" ABBA album The Visitors at this moment? Probably quite a few around the world.

PS I have only heard of two of those non-single Beatles songs you highlighted, but I am sure they're all good songs!
So will we just pick and choose where singles were released so it supports your argument?

A great album is a great album. it doesnt have to be around for a certain number of generations to be recognised as such but it will be passed down for generations.

Who plays the angry songs from the punk era?
Well quite alot this week I'd guess.
And the likes of the Clash, the Jam and the Sex Pistols are regularly played on the radio. Even heard a bit of the Buzzcocks the other day.
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:07
Rita's Kabin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Weatherfield
Posts: 25,938
My point is they are all album tracks. The ABBA song I mentioned having been covered was because it was released as a single in this obscure europe place but not in the UK because someone released a cover.

with your last part about supposition, would you be willing to bet that Beatles album tracks are more or less well known than ABBA's?

I do think that this thread has lost sight of the original question:- Do You Think Abba Are Better Than The Beatles?

That's not a question anyone can answer because there is no test you can apply to measure it.

You and I could take 100 multiple choice tests on various categories and work out who is 'better' in each subject area but until someone works out a scoring system for music, there is no way of working out whether one song is "better" than another.

All anyone can do is express and opinion about which act they prefer and nobody's opinion on music is any more or less valid that anyone else's.


How well an album track is or isn't known has very little bearing on anything beyond the fact that it's become known to the public for some reason.

But to answer your question, the Beatles released more studio albums than Abba which in turn meant that they released more tracks in total.

Having said that I do think that you might potentially get varying results depending on the sort of people you'd survey.

I might expect Beatles album tracks to be known by more people but without doing some research that's nothing more than an instinct which might very well be wrong.

All I will say is that, after having watched many episodes of "Pointless" I'm always somewhat surprised about the how many people do or don't know various facts whenb it comes to the music, tv and film categories.
My partner and I always discuss what we think the highest and lowest scores in these categories are and, quite often, we're surprised at how high or how low certain things score.
Rita's Kabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:14
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
Exactly.

It seems that the Beatles fans and Abba fans on this thread have lost sight of ther fact that BETTER IS JUST AN OPINION, not a fact you can prove absolutely.
actually, i am neither. if anyone was being objective it was me! however, i did take exception to the accusations that abba were a singles band
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:14
Ash's Man
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,989
i wouldn't and didn't compare. what exactly do you mean by artistic integrity? i don't need a dictionary definition. i just want you to quantify what you mean?
Do you mean qualify? And in that case I mean, the Beatles made music about universal feelings, about things that were bigger than just them. Abba made catchy pop songs. That's what I'd mean by the Beatles having artistic integrity and using their music to do more and say something while Abba did not, IMO.

That's so not true about ABBAs melodies. The verses, intros and bridges are filled with killer-hooks. They were geniuses at that. I agree that their lyrics didn't always match up to their wonderful tunes and production values (same with Beatles there) , but my God Agnetha and Frida were better singers than John and Paul!
I wasn't saying that they weren't good singers, I was saying that The Beatles did have and still do have a bigger impact on popular culture which is why Abba are not better.
Ash's Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:32
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
Do you mean qualify? And in that case I mean, the Beatles made music about universal feelings, about things that were bigger than just them. Abba made catchy pop songs. That's what I'd mean by the Beatles having artistic integrity and using their music to do more and say something while Abba did not, IMO.
i did actually mean quantify. which you did and thank you for your opinion. i would say that the writing team behind abba, wrote with a lot of integrity. especially towards the end. they also wrote two musicals after the group disbanded. their most recent being the better of the two and i`m not talking about mamma mia!
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:37
ivyjane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: goonhilly2 devon
Posts: 196
i think abba have the edge, i like abba my daughter likes abba, my 2 grandsons aged 4 + 3 have me playing abbas mamma mia, + money money money on repeat + they sing along like loonies!
ivyjane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 22:59
MikeyDLuffy
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
Posts: 346
i think abba have the edge, i like abba my daughter likes abba, my 2 grandsons aged 4 + 3 have me playing abbas mamma mia, + money money money on repeat + they sing along like loonies!
Lol that just says it all...
MikeyDLuffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:06
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
That Mamma Mia thing should actually result in everything ABBA related been put into giant containers and catapulted at the sun and any mention of ABBA being wiped from history.
What an absolute pile of crap. Everyone got a copy for christmas about 3 years ago so everywhere you went that year it was on.
I nearly phoned the Hague to report My aunt as a being in breach of the Geneva Convention for having it on all day when i visited.

in fact that should have been my argument all along.

Do you think ABBA are better than the Beatles.
Mamma Mia? F@ck no!
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:15
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
That Mamma Mia thing should actually result in everything ABBA related been put into giant containers and catapulted at the sun and any mention of ABBA being wiped from history.
What an absolute pile of crap. Everyone got a copy for christmas about 3 years ago so everywhere you went that year it was on.
I nearly phoned the Hague to report My aunt as a being in breach of the Geneva Convention for having it on all day when i visited.

in fact that should have been my argument all along.

Do you think ABBA are better than the Beatles.
Mamma Mia? F@ck no!
that argument may have held more weight. although, didnt the beatles have a musical based on their songs. i forgot it flopped.
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:25
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
that argument may have held more weight. although, didnt the beatles have a musical based on their songs. i forgot it flopped.
The Beatles never did a musical of their songs cause they broke up in 1970 long before the pop musical craze.
There is apparently a very good Cirque du Soleil show in Las Vegas which is soundtracked and based on Beatles songs.

There was a film a few years ago called Across the Universe which used Beatles songs in the soundtrack and characters were named after characters from songs but there was no involvement from the bandmembers creatively in it.
It's not very good and the director went on to piss away a small fortune on the Spiderman Broadway show.

Still even Across the Universe is better than Mamma F@ckin Mia
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:40
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
The Beatles never did a musical of their songs cause they broke up in 1970 long before the pop musical craze.
There is apparently a very good Cirque du Soleil show in Las Vegas which is soundtracked and based on Beatles songs.

There was a film a few years ago called Across the Universe which used Beatles songs in the soundtrack and characters were named after characters from songs but there was no involvement from the bandmembers creatively in it.
It's not very good and the director went on to piss away a small fortune on the Spiderman Broadway show.

Still even Across the Universe is better than Mamma F@ckin Mia
i was referring to `all you need is love`. we were talking about stage musicals. at least i was originally. mamma mia is not typical of their contribution to musical theatre. although, i agree it was a huge success.
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:46
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
i was referring to `all you need is love`. we were talking about stage musicals. at least i was originally. mamma mia is not typical of their contribution to musical theatre. although, i agree it was a huge success.
All you need is love? Can't find anything about a musical of than name. Are you sure?
And I wasn't talking about the success of Mamma Mia I was talking about the god awfulness of it.
That and the song from Chess lead me to think their theatre output must be absolute horsesh@t
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:52
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
In fact the only mention of an All You Need Is Love musical I can find is a German show that played at an arts festival last summer.
That's it.
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2011, 23:55
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
All you need is love? Can't find anything about a musical of than name. Are you sure?
And I wasn't talking about the success of Mamma Mia I was talking about the god awfulness of it.
That and the song from Chess lead me to think their theatre output must be absolute horsesh@t
there was a musical based on the beatles songs in 2001. it closed.

http://travel.ciao.co.uk/All_You_Nee...Review_5118421

chess has a wonderful diverse score. however, it was not a good show. that was mainly down to tim rice`s book. although, it still tours after 25 years.

i would go on about their swedish musical. which has recently been translated into english. that is a great book and the score is fantastic. however, again. what would be the point?
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:03
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
there was a musical based on the beatles songs in 2001. it closed.

http://travel.ciao.co.uk/All_You_Nee...Review_5118421

chess has a wonderful diverse score. however, it was not a good show. that was mainly down to tim rice`s book. although, it still tours after 25 years.

i would go on about their swedish musical. which has recently been translated into english. that is a great book and the score is fantastic. however, again. what would be the point?
Exactly I don't care. You'll excuse me if neither a Swedish musical nor the mention of Tim Rice perk my interest on a Saturday night.
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:15
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
Exactly I don't care. You'll excuse me if neither a Swedish musical nor the mention of Tim Rice perk my interest on a Saturday night.
just as i thought. i am glad i didn't elaborate. like i suggested hours ago. you had already made your mind up.
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:23
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
just as i thought. i am glad i didn't elaborate. like i suggested hours ago. you had already made your mind up.
How Tim Rice and Swedish musicals got into this is beyond me, but its not a good sign.

Like I said in my first comment I thought this was a joke thread like the Darkness led zep one.

It staggers me to think there are folk out there who would think ABBA's output is greater than that of the Beatles.

If it ABBA was swapped for the stones or Led Zep or Pink Floyd I could understand it cause that's more of a closer comparison. But ABBA. It boggles.
And don't get me wrong I like ABBA, which I've stated all along, I bought their singles with my pocket money when I was a kid (and now feel very old)
I've got a limited edition gatefold single that might have been worth a few bob had I not added moustaches to everyone on the cover.
I just dont believe they made a great album, and I've owned most of them at some point but never felt the need to replace them as everything you'd want or need to hear is on ABBA Gold or More Gold.
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:24
woutch
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 38
Exactly I don't care. You'll excuse me is s Swedish musical nor the mention of Tim Rice perk my interest on a Saturday night.

I don't quite know what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it made sense when you were typing it but it's not easy to understand when others have to read it!

The Beatles musical All You Need Is Love was a disaster at the box office after almost unanimously bad reviews and it closed within months in 2001.

Mamma Mia!, on the other hand (while I am not fond of it at all myself), was universally praised and has run for thirteen years in London, ten years on Broadway and is now the world's most successful musical of all time.

The film was also the most successful film ever at British cinemas until Avatar came along, even grossing more than any of the Star Wars, Lord Of the Rings or Harry Potter films, and it stills holds the record of the highest DVD sales ever.

There is a great appeal to ABBA's music that has carried on for decades, crossing over to all generations (young and old) and over all genres of media , which the Beatles music doesn't quite seem to achieve.

The thread was formed to ask who people prefer - Beatles or ABBA. There's obviously a sway nowadays toward ABBA amongst the masses, but artistically both acts have given an amazing contribution to music, and (of course) Andersson and Ulvaeus have constantly worked together since 1966 to this very day.

Lennon and McCartney's collaboration was short lived, but nonetheless influential to millions, including to Benny and Bjorn.

Benny and Bjorn have influenced countless others and touched so many people's lives with their music in later years.

Realistically, no matter who you prefer, both acts are hugely admirable.
woutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:29
gpk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Penryn, Falmouth, Cornwall.
Posts: 10,034
i never said that i actually thought that abba were better than the beatles. check my posts. there is obviously a taste difference between posters. of course there is also bullying and goading thrown in for good measure.
gpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2011, 00:41
Theshane
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,740
I don't quite know what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it made sense when you were typing it but it's not easy to understand when others have to read it!

The Beatles musical All You Need Is Love was a disaster at the box office after almost unanimously bad reviews and it closed within months in 2001.

Mamma Mia!, on the other hand (while I am not fond of it at all myself), was universally praised and has run for thirteen years in London, ten years on Broadway and is now the world's most successful musical of all time.

The film was also the most successful film ever at British cinemas until Avatar came along, even grossing more than any of the Star Wars, Lord Of the Rings or Harry Potter films, and it stills holds the record of the highest DVD sales ever.

There is a great appeal to ABBA's music that has carried on for decades, crossing over to all generations (young and old) and over all genres of media , which the Beatles music doesn't quite seem to achieve.

The thread was formed to ask who people prefer - Beatles or ABBA. There's obviously a sway nowadays toward ABBA amongst the masses, but artistically both acts have given an amazing contribution to music, and (of course) Andersson and Ulvaeus have constantly worked together since 1966 to this very day.

Lennon and McCartney's collaboration was short lived, but nonetheless influential to millions, including to Benny and Bjorn.

Benny and Bjorn have influenced countless others and touched so many people's lives with their music in later years.

Realistically, no matter who you prefer, both acts are hugely admirable.
What I'm saying there is I don't care about Tim Rice or Swedish musicals. Its pretty clear.

This All you Need is Love musical thats been brought up, unlike Mamma Mia, had nothing to do with the Beatles, so I don't see your point there.
That's like blaming Shakespeare for a poor performance of Hamlet.
A fair comparison would be the Love show in Vegas which the Beatles and George Martin had creative input into and has been hugely successful.

The part I put in bold, the Beatles music does not achieve cross generational appeal across media today. Really?
Because the Beatles didn't do a stage musical?
Ok well excuse my while I stop playing ABBA Rockband for a minute. Oh that's right the game doesn't exist.
Also in the 3 months after the remasters were released they sold just over 2 million albums in the states alone.
Thats not a band that doesn't have current appeal.
I've got two cousins one is 12 and one is 13 and they've both started getting into the Beatles due to the Rockband game and lots of their friends did.
ABBA, thanks to the Mamma Mia movie, is what they think of as 'mums music' and a little bit girly for them.
Theshane is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:04.