[cassiopea]

Originally Posted by Vintage06

I didn't enjoy this episode as much. I hope they've big things planned for why Peter's gone.

Also Walternate must have still sent the Shapeshifters over to the other side as they were mentioned. But whats the motive & the thing driving these two realities to war?

Wonder if Charlie survived in this time-line? Or even is still alive on the other side too.

There is so much possibility of changes. It's a bit like Dallas really isn't it. Show 3 seasons of a show. Then completely start from the beginning as nothing happened or it was all a dream.

I always thought that Walter was not to blame and that getting Peter from the other side was not the reason for the wars between realities. I always thought that Walternate had an alterior motive.

There's so much we don't know! Walter lost loads of his memory or had it purged or removed or whatever.


Perhaps some experiment that Bell and Walter did, was responsible for split in the timeline. An experiment to try to split universes which caused a problem with Walter's brain (and why part of it needed to be removed) and why Bell in alt universe had died (in a so-called car accident). These two major differences would be the result of the experiment back then and why the timeline split and the changes went on from there. Then the Observers created Peter, introduced him to the timeline, to try to solve the problem that the mad scientists had created, "to serve a purpose".

[mrkite77]

Liked Walter's homage to this classic Maxell commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2WcBi9mu6A

[Alien28]

Originally Posted by cassiopea

I always thought that Walter was not to blame and that getting Peter from the other side was not the reason for the wars between realities. I always thought that Walternate had an alterior motive.

There's so much we don't know! Walter lost loads of his memory or had it purged or removed or whatever.


Perhaps some experiment that Bell and Walter did, was responsible for split in the timeline. An experiment to try to split universes which caused a problem with Walter's brain (and why part of it needed to be removed) and why Bell in alt universe had died (in a so-called car accident). These two major differences would be the result of the experiment back then and why the timeline split and the changes went on from there. Then the Observers created Peter, introduced him to the timeline, to try to solve the problem that the mad scientists had created, "to serve a purpose".

But that doesn't explain why the other universe's tech is 20-30 years ahead of ours. And we know why Walters memories are missing, the chunk of his brain was taken at his own request because he was frightened of what he might become.

[koantemplation]

A slightly better episode than the first episode this time.

We're getting 2 for 1 on Olivia, which can't be a bad thing.

The MOTW was pretty good but very pedestrian.

I just feel the story isn't really moving along and that we've done it all before.

[kegsie]

I'm expecting more of a movement next week.

Now Peter's voice is leaking through I suspect they will realise who he is next week and then the week after it will be about getting him back.

[seejay63]

Originally Posted by kegsie

I'm expecting more of a movement next week.

Now Peter's voice is leaking through I suspect they will realise who he is next week and then the week after it will be about getting him back.

I haven't seen this week's episode yet - can't wait! However I don't understand how Peter's voice can leak through from anywhere if he has never existed. Not that I'm complaining as I fancy the pants off him Time travel etc makes my brain feel like exploding (but I do love watching Doctor Who too )

[crunchie crisp]

Alternate Broyles was killed in season 3

Or did that not exist either

Walter did mention Folivia being in his lab

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by crunchie crisp

Alternate Broyles was killed in season 3

Or did that not exist either

Walter did mention Folivia being in his lab

It looks like Olivias time over there has been rewritten quite extensively.

We know she was kidnapped and replaced and taken over there but it looks like she wasn't given Bolivias memories and placed in the field.

Given that Brolyes is alive he obviously did not die in helping her get back to her own Universe. Neither did she make any comment to Red Linchon which she probably would have if she had worked along side him for weeks/months.

So Olivia was probably just held in a cell the whole time and then either escaped on her own or was actually allowed to return once Bolivia had finished her mission (maybe they had to use her in the transfer of Bolivia back to the Red Verse).

Another change is that Olivia killed her Stepfather but for some reason I thought she had done that in the orginal timeline as well (maybe I can remember things from the future )

[crunchie crisp]

Originally Posted by Corwin

It looks like Olivias time over there has been rewritten quite extensively.

We know she was kidnapped and replaced and taken over there but it looks like she wasn't given Bolivias memories and placed in the field.

Given that Brolyes is alive he obviously did not die in helping her get back to her own Universe. Neither did she make any comment to Red Linchon which she probably would have if she had worked along side him for weeks/months.

So Olivia was probably just held in a cell the whole time and then either escaped on her own or was actually allowed to return once Bolivia had finished her mission (maybe they had to use her in the transfer of Bolivia back to the Red Verse).

Another change is that Olivia killed her Stepfather but for some reason I thought she had done that in the orginal timeline as well (maybe I can remember things from the future )

I think you are very gifted

[Matt D]

Didn't Walter threaten Olivia's stepfather in the original timeline, in the episode where she met young Peter?

With no Peter, that would have played out differently... So perhaps Walter never threatened Olivia's stepfather, so the stepfather later went too far and Olivia killed him in self defence.

[AdzPower]

But the producers of the show stated that everything that has happened still happened, so i dont get why alternate broyles is still alive.
Having said that it was Peter who discovered Fauxlivia, so i guess without him she would have successfully completed her mission and made the transfer back allowing broyles to live, then that means the baby's gone as well i guess.

[Matt D]

When did they state that?

It's been stated within the show itself that the timeline has changed, that certain things which previously happened have now never happened.

[mrkite77]

Originally Posted by Corwin

We know she was kidnapped and replaced and taken over there but it looks like she wasn't given Bolivias memories and placed in the field.

I think she was given Bolivias memories and placed in the field.. but, if you recall, it was her memory of Peter that helped her re-establish her own identity, and led to her escape (and Broyles' death). That obviously didn't happen this time. I'm guessing instead she was rescued and deprogrammed instead.

[AdzPower]

Originally Posted by Matt D

When did they state that?

It's been stated within the show itself that the timeline has changed, that certain things which previously happened have now never happened.

I read it today actually in my new sci fi now magazine, issue 59 if you wanna check it out, it has a big feature on Fringe this month where the producers have quite an in depth interview.

[seejay63]

Originally Posted by AdzPower

then that means the baby's gone as well i guess.

I would imagine so - if Peter doesn't exist he can't make babies

[hugsie]

Perhaps when they say he never existed, they mean adult Peter, or Peter beyond his original death?

[AdzPower]

Originally Posted by seejay63

I would imagine so - if Peter doesn't exist he can't make babies

Thats interesting, so I wonder what will happen when he comes back into existence, will the baby resume existence again? Its all very intriguing.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by AdzPower

But the producers of the show stated that everything that has happened still happened, so i dont get why alternate broyles is still alive.
Having said that it was Peter who discovered Fauxlivia, so i guess without him she would have successfully completed her mission and made the transfer back allowing broyles to live, then that means the baby's gone as well i guess.

Everything that happened has still happened but only we the Viewers and in the show The Observers and Peter remember them happening.

[denton178]

Should we be worried by the dwindling viewing figures, I really hope not

[CJClarke]

Originally Posted by denton178

Should we be worried by the dwindling viewing figures, I really hope not

A 1.2 rating for the second episode (20% drop from the premiere) really isn't good, especially when you consider that it's probably not stopped dropping yet. I'd prepare for the worst. I reckon we'll see all of Season 4, but i think a Season 5 is just wishful thinking, Fox's charity will only extend so far.

[cassiopea]

Originally Posted by Alien28

But that doesn't explain why the other universe's tech is 20-30 years ahead of ours. And we know why Walters memories are missing, the chunk of his brain was taken at his own request because he was frightened of what he might become.

Actually, I think it does! If the experiment changed the laws of physics as they knew it back then or allowed them to make technicalogical advancements as a result of their findings then Walternate would know and Walter with part of his brain missing would not know. Bell was being held to randsome by Walternate...

I agree with you that he was frightened of what he might become, like a mad professor with too much power because of the amazing discoveries that he'd made.

[NorfolkBoy1]

My mind is now properly bent up after catching up on the thread, some great observations made so far!

I agree that the first episode was a bit slower than I might have hoped, but I think the first couple have both been more about character than plot, something I welcome, I'm not very good at remembering every detail of every significant scene from the last three years, but I'm sure as hell invested in these characters.

I found John Noble's portrayal of Walter very interesting in the first episode, the way he spoke was really outgoing, while still clearly quite mad he seemed to me far less introverted than the Walter who had the weight of his own actions weighing upon him, as if he didn't have that guilt hanging over him over what he had driven his wife to.

On the whole that first episode was always going to be mainly about establishing the new balance of things to the viewer, while at the same time providing a jumping-off point where new viewers can actually join in, unlikely to happen at this point I know (hence the figures), but they had to try.

As for episode 2, I thought it was a superb treatment of how lives can be changed by seemingly small events or decisions, from McLennan's decision to run from his father to the real reason the Olivias are so different. You may not think it moved the mythology on significantly, but it's setting out themes which will be crucial to the series I'm sure.

As for those numbers, if Fox do decide to cancel, at least give the show half a season's notice so a proper ending can be crafted and not rushed. And what's the betting Fringe is like Firefly, having a much higher number of viewers than a system like Neilsen can ever measure?

[varsas]

Originally Posted by NorfolkBoy1

As for those numbers, if Fox do decide to cancel, at least give the show half a season's notice so a proper ending can be crafted and not rushed. And what's the betting Fringe is like Firefly, having a much higher number of viewers than a system like Neilsen can ever measure?

I do hope the producers do have this in the forefront of their minds! It would be nice to know how Fringe does in the DVD/BR sales because that's where FOX found out their mistake relying on ratings with Firefly.

[NorfolkBoy1]

Originally Posted by varsas

I do hope the producers do have this in the forefront of their minds! It would be nice to know how Fringe does in the DVD/BR sales because that's where FOX found out their mistake relying on ratings with Firefly.

Well it's one of the few shows I buy the BR set of every year, despite already having HD torrents of every episode I have always felt it's such a good show it deserves my support!

[seejay63]

Originally Posted by CJClarke

A 1.2 rating for the second episode (20% drop from the premiere) really isn't good, especially when you consider that it's probably not stopped dropping yet. I'd prepare for the worst. I reckon we'll see all of Season 4, but i think a Season 5 is just wishful thinking, Fox's charity will only extend so far.

I watched 6 years of Lost, but really wish it had ended after about 3. There were too many things left unexplained. It was a huge disappointment at the end. Let's hope the writers of Fringe don't get tangled up in the writing and leave it all unexplained.