How far will Apple go against Samsung and Android phone manufacturers and end users?

I'm a little curious where the evidence for this is. Apple just had a record quarter (for profits). Wishful thinking.

But is this a peak that they dont want to plummit from ? They are announcing profits based on huge iPad2 dominance and the tail end of iPhone4/4s dominance. With Android now significantly outselling the in the Phone market and Android starting to catch them up (which surprised me if this really is the case) in the tablet market PLUS the bad press they are getting (particularly in the USA) about their production standards and the Health and Safety standards for their 'workers' I wonder if they are concerned about a fall.

I think their days of dominating are over. Id wager that within 5 years they will be back as a niche product with the market being much more widespread amonst the diverse manufacturers.

Which ... in the long run ... will be best for everyone as it produces the most choice.

grumpyoldbat · 13-02-2012, 13:50

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Originally Posted by alanwarwic

The sad thing is that Apple used to pride themselves on being the 'loveable underdogs'. Apple users used to be the ones harping on about the 'evil microsoft bully'.

It would now seem like Apple have become everything they used to be against.

I still think the most telling point is that Bill Gates has sworn to spend his fortune eradicating Malaria. Steve Jobs vowed to spend his last pennies eradicating Android.

I really hope that someone, somewhere sees some sense. Its the consumers that will end up paying for all of these court cases at the end of the day. Its pushing the price of our phones up while lawyers get fat off the arguments.

I don't think Apple were ever the loveable underdogs in Steve Jobs' head. Even if you don't like Apple, his official biography is worth a read. He was a brilliant, but extremely flawed, man.

ACU · 13-02-2012, 14:08

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http://www.neowin.net/news/apple-fil...xy-nexus-in-us

In its injunction, Apple claims that the Galaxy Nexus violates four of Apple's patents, including the "slide to unlock" feature, a word completion patent, one relating to search and Apple's Siri voice recognition software and a data tapping related patent.

So gestures, spelling, voice and screen taps.
I'm sure it's a 'have money to spend' advertising thing to make gullible people think that anything but a £500+ iPhone is illegitimate.

I remember reading a while back (so I may not be 100% correct), that the slide to unlock was for the slide to occur at the bottom of the screen. If you moved the "slide to unlock" to the middle or the top of the screen, then it wouldnt be against the patent. Also if you had a slide down the side of the screen that would be ok as well i.e. wont fall foul of the patent.

Stuart_h · 13-02-2012, 14:16

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Originally Posted by ACU

I remember reading a while back (so I may not be 100% correct), that the slide to unlock was for the slide to occur at the bottom of the screen. If you moved the "slide to unlock" to the middle or the top of the screen, then it wouldnt be against the patent. Also if you had a slide down the side of the screen that would be ok as well i.e. wont fall foul of the patent.

I believe it was slide from one nominated place to another nominated place. therefore you can read that any way you like as it seems pretty general.

ACU · 13-02-2012, 14:19

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Originally Posted by grumpyoldbat

I believe it was slide from one nominated place to another nominated place. therefore you can read that any way you like as it seems pretty general.

OK thanks. Which makes it even more absurd they got the patent for it.

Stiggles · 13-02-2012, 14:20

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I don't think Apple were ever the loveable underdogs in Steve Jobs' head. Even if you don't like Apple, his official biography is worth a read. He was a brilliant, but extremely flawed, man.

In what way was he brilliant? He didn't design the products nor did he build them. He shouted and screamed at folk constantly apparently!

Me thinks he's handed to much fame sometimes.

Whatever the case, i do think this new guy is gonna kill apple.

tdenson · 13-02-2012, 14:20

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But is this a peak that they dont want to plummit from ? They are announcing profits based on huge iPad2 dominance and the tail end of iPhone4/4s dominance. With Android now significantly outselling the in the Phone market and Android starting to catch them up (which surprised me if this really is the case) in the tablet market PLUS the bad press they are getting (particularly in the USA) about their production standards and the Health and Safety standards for their 'workers' I wonder if they are concerned about a fall.

I think their days of dominating are over. Id wager that within 5 years they will be back as a niche product with the market being much more widespread amonst the diverse manufacturers.

Which ... in the long run ... will be best for everyone as it produces the most choice.

Well I will be holding on to my stock, on the basis that their profit will continue to rise. Time will tell, but I heard all this in 2007 when the IPhone 1 came out (rubbish phone, no 3G etc.) and I was foolish enough to invest in Apple stock because I thought they had something. Unfortunately my shareholding has only risen 5 fold.

tdenson · 13-02-2012, 14:22

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In what way was he brilliant? He didn't design the products nor did he build them. He shouted and screamed at folk constantly apparently!

Though if you read about the people he screamed at, it had the desired affect

Stuart_h · 13-02-2012, 14:30

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Well I will be holding on to my stock, on the basis that their profit will continue to rise. Time will tell, but I heard all this in 2007 when the IPhone 1 came out (rubbish phone, no 3G etc.) and I was foolish enough to invest in Apple stock because I thought they had something. Unfortunately my shareholding has only risen 5 fold.

well im jolly pleased for you

i cant really see their profits rising much more unless they start screwing even more money out of their workers (interesting articles in the US about 'how many people died to make your iPod' !). The lve affair between the press and Apple is starting to cool.

The fact is their market share is dropping. It will probably drop further. They look to be trying to keep up with other brands by preventing other brands from existing.

If you genuinely think they can continue to increase profits year on year then keep your stock and good luck to you. :sleep:

Like everything though... stocks can rise and stocks can fall. Im not saying they will go out of business. They managed to weather the storm of the Apple/Microsoft battles. I just cant see them being as dominant in 5 years as they have been over the last 5 ....

Stuart_h · 13-02-2012, 14:34

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Though if you read about the people he screamed at, it had the desired affect

Isnt it great how the avid fan can see good in everything

Stiggles · 13-02-2012, 14:36

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well im jolly pleased for you

i cant really see their profits rising much more unless they start screwing even more money out of their workers (interesting articles in the US about 'how many people died to make your iPod' !). The lve affair between the press and Apple is starting to cool.

The fact is their market share is dropping. It will probably drop further. They look to be trying to keep up with other brands by preventing other brands from existing.

If you genuinely think they can continue to increase profits year on year then keep your stock and good luck to you. :sleep:

Like everything though... stocks can rise and stocks can fall. Im not saying they will go out of business. They managed to weather the storm of the Apple/Microsoft battles. I just cant see them being as dominant in 5 years as they have been over the last 5 ....

Their profits wont rise more than now. They have peaked and with their attitude these days they will now fall sharply over the next few years i think.

No company can ever practice like apple are and survive. Apple are not immune to this.

Stiggles · 13-02-2012, 14:36

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Though if you read about the people he screamed at, it had the desired affect

What desired effect?

The designers would have designed them regardless.

Stuart_h · 13-02-2012, 14:37

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Their profits wont rise more than now. They have peaked and with their attitude these days they will now fall sharply over the next few years i think.

No company can ever practice like apple are and survive. Apple are not immune to this.

^^ This ^^

At this point its all opinions obviously. Otherwise everyone could be very wealthy using the stock exchange

Stiggles · 13-02-2012, 14:38

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Well I will be holding on to my stock, on the basis that their profit will continue to rise. Time will tell, but I heard all this in 2007 when the IPhone 1 came out (rubbish phone, no 3G etc.) and I was foolish enough to invest in Apple stock because I thought they had something. Unfortunately my shareholding has only risen 5 fold.

See this is what folk hate. People like you. Smug arrogant gits.

Thing is, we all know what happens to them.....

To be honest, i would cash in now.

barky99 · 13-02-2012, 15:15

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Their profits wont rise more than now. They have peaked and with their attitude these days they will now fall sharply over the next few years i think.

No company can ever practice like apple are and survive. Apple are not immune to this.

Apple's business model relies on android (well all competition) failing to allow further growth BUT just like with apple Vs microsoft it seems doomed to fail & become a more minority player again ... if they became more open & less secretive they might still grow a few % by allowing ios/osx etc on other makes under licence ... which seems to go against what they believe in!

Stuart_h · 13-02-2012, 15:27

What I cant comprehend is certain peoples undying loyalty to a brand (any brand).

I changed my phone 2 years ago. I had Winmo 6.5 and i moved to Android. I looked at all manufacturers (including Apple) and made a choice. I changed my phone again a few months ago. Again i looked at all options (i very nearly went for a Windows phone again). Id had an HTC before, this time I opted for a Samsung.

If i change my car, i look at models and performance and mpg. I check out interior specs, comfort, and take a few cars for a test drive. I currently drive a 1 series. i probably wouldnt get another.

I would never rush out and but a new product JUST because a brand had released a new version !?

Therein lies the talent of Apple and their marketing. Somehow they have convinced people that their BRAND is 'best.

We know their phones dont have the fastest chips, or the biggest screens, or the highest resolution. Nor are their phones better built. Nor do these use the most expensive components. Nor do they treat all their employees like the happy-clappy people in Apple stores. But SOMEHOW people stick by them through thick and thin.

A phone is released with a (fairly) serious defect that it wont make calls if you hold it wrong ! catastrophic for most brands but with Apple people still buy it in their droves and swear undying love !? I saw a programme recently comparing major brands (not just Apple but including them) to religious sects with brain washing and the similarities were astounding.

I like to think im not a fanboy of anything. The mere concept of people buying into a 'brand' is just plain scary to me.

Can anyone out there explain to me what exactly makes people queue up outside an Apple store JUST BECAUSE IT IS OPENING FOR THE FIRST TIME ?? Or even explain why they would upgrade to an iPhonex without having even seen it or read reviews ? The challenge is to explain this without using the following:

a) Apple products 'just work' - they dont. Apple have just as many issues as other phones as a quick google will show you.
b) Other Apps are just cheap rip-offs of Apple Apps - they arent - many developers now create Apps on Android THEN port them to Apple.
c) You get what you pay for - no you dont. The sheer size of Apples profit clearly shows that buy paying premium prices you are not getting a premium product - you are purely lining Apples pockets.

grumpyoldbat · 13-02-2012, 15:32

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In what way was he brilliant? He didn't design the products nor did he build them. He shouted and screamed at folk constantly apparently!

Me thinks he's handed to much fame sometimes.

Whatever the case, i do think this new guy is gonna kill apple.

Given that your pathological hatred of everything Apple does clouds your judgement, I wouldn't expect you to be able to see that regardless of how unpleasant an individual Steve Jobs may have been, he's been bloody clever in the way he built the company up from what it was when he took back control, to what it was at the point of his death.

grumpyoldbat · 13-02-2012, 15:35

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