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Mels and Rory's badge
lach doch mal
Posts: 16,328 Forum Member
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I'm normally not posting my wild theories, but I just posted this in another thread and I don't think this has been discussed yet and I would like to know what others think.
Mels said the regenerated into a toddler in New York. We thus assume that she is the little girl in 1969 regenerating into a toddler. When we meet her in "Let's kill Hitler", she is approximately 20 or 21 years old (Amy's age). If she has lived from her regeneration until the time we meet her (without time travel), that would take her to 1990.
The date on Rory's badge was 1990. I know many people thought that was a production mistake, I still don't believe this. Production people don't make such mistakes, and there was no reason for the camera to even focus on the badge. The badge had to be specifically designed for the set, so 1990 just doesn't look like a reasonable mistake.
You can see where I'm going with that. Ledworth is the village that time forgot, maybe to keep a young Mels safe (after all the orphanage seemed to be kind of timeless, the keeper definitely seemed to think it was earlier).
I think there is something weird about Ledworth and time (maybe arranged by whoever looked after Mels to keep her close to her parents, so that she would meet the doctor).
Anyway, maybe I'm completely wrong.
Mels said the regenerated into a toddler in New York. We thus assume that she is the little girl in 1969 regenerating into a toddler. When we meet her in "Let's kill Hitler", she is approximately 20 or 21 years old (Amy's age). If she has lived from her regeneration until the time we meet her (without time travel), that would take her to 1990.
The date on Rory's badge was 1990. I know many people thought that was a production mistake, I still don't believe this. Production people don't make such mistakes, and there was no reason for the camera to even focus on the badge. The badge had to be specifically designed for the set, so 1990 just doesn't look like a reasonable mistake.
You can see where I'm going with that. Ledworth is the village that time forgot, maybe to keep a young Mels safe (after all the orphanage seemed to be kind of timeless, the keeper definitely seemed to think it was earlier).
I think there is something weird about Ledworth and time (maybe arranged by whoever looked after Mels to keep her close to her parents, so that she would meet the doctor).
Anyway, maybe I'm completely wrong.
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When I said "something weird about Ledworth" I meant in relationship to time, rather than that the village itself is weird.
However, with regards to the question of how Mels is still a child in 1990; We still don't know how many times she has regenerated. For all we know she could have regenerated into a child just in time to meet the young Amelia and Rory.
as she begins to regenerate she states that the last time she did regenerated she ended up as a toddler in the middle of new york, implying that it was only her second regeneration
I completely agree, she could have regenerated into an adult in New York and then at the end of the 80's regenerated into a toddler in New York (to be 21 in 2010).
However, by the way Mels is written and her behaviour, it appears she is quite a young person (regardless of her looks, so even when she regenerated into River - she still behaves like a teenager). This made me think she had not lived a long time (if that makes sense?). The doctor is 900something but looks like 20, whereas Mels is somewhere in her twenties, but now looks like 40.
Hi Lach Doch Mal - nice to meet you
I like your theory - it's an interesting one and one that OH and I were debating last night - a village created to keep not only Mels but Amy and Rory safe too. Similar to The Village in The Prisoner in some ways (except there's no Green Dome or Rovers as far as we know
How she reached Leadworth is also intriguing. Part of me is beginning to wonder if it was the Doctor himself (given that River told Rory in TIA that he dropped out of the sky when she was a young girl and he knew everything about her - which certainly wasn't the case in LKH).
There's something about Rory too though... he's not conventional in any way, shape or form.
Hmmm...
This is the bit that is intriguing me and just doesn't make sense...
From what we have seen so far this was Mels first meeting with the Doctor and she certainly wasn't an impressionable young girl nor did he drop out of the sky. The doctor may have know who she was when he first met her in the cornfield or it may have taken a little while to realise who she was.
This was not the first meeting as described by River to Rory - so either River has her memory modified when she is on the hospital planet so she remembers her early life differently or the Doctor as you say visited a young Melody and took her to Ledworth to grow up. After all he could not return her to her parents as a baby so perhaps the next best thing was to allow her to grow up as a child alongside her parents - explaining how she appears to be the same 'age' as Rory and Amy.
I do really like this theory though and the dates do match up so I hope it's true because I love it when a writer has the forethought to have little details mean big clues later on.
I agree-and actually think the Doctor did drop her with mum and dad, but needed this to happen so he knew where to find her-in New York? As a toddler. So it might be the whole it had to happen for it to happen type of event.
I thought the "it took me years to find you" was intriguing-how if she was a toddler? and if as said she only had that one regeneration, then the OP makes sense time wise but only if she had help doing the looking.
Love it though.
My theory is really not a theory, just something I thought about. I completely agree that the equipment in Ledworth is modern equipment (which would not fit into what I'm saying in my OP).
I think the idea that the Doctor may have dropped her off as a toddler someone near her parents is intriguing. However, when River told Rory about being an impressionable young girl when she first met the Doctor, it would imply that she was old enough to remember the Doctor (and in that case, my idea that Mels is really not that old would make sense, e.g. Mels in the Hitler episode is still a young girl). If she was dropped off as a toddler by the Doctor, she would not have been old enough to remember him. On the other hand, if he dropped her off later (when she was old enough, 6 or 7), then she would have remembered him as Mels.
I wonder if Madame Kovarian dropped her off near her parents, because she knew that in this case she would definitely meet the Doctor again.
On the one hand we have Mels growing up with Rory and Amy in Ledworth in the late 90s, aged around 8 or 9, after Amy has first met the Doctor. Mels says that it took her ages to find them after regenerating from the little girl at the end of DoTM into a toddler at the end of the 70s.
Mels then grows up with the 2 of them throughout her childhood and teenage years. We then see Mels meeting up with Rory, Amy and the Doctor having no personal knowledge of the Doctor - only that which she has gained from Amy and of course Madame K and her cronies.
On the other hand we have River telling Rory that she first met the Doctor when she was an impressionable young girl and he just dropped out of the sky.
Yes, but when the 'astronaut' Melody regenerates, she says, 'I can fix this'- which suggests to me that she'd already done it before.
Two other points- at the end of The Eleventh Hour, there's a still-unexplained shot of young Amelia looking up in the morning to hear the Tardis sound (though I think that could be Rory 'dropping for the sky'), which could also be Mels being delivered to the right timeline. Secondly, Mels talks to Amy and Rory about having looked for them, implying that she did have some choice in the matter.
Didn't a lone Dalek drop from the sky being the last of his kind which was then imprisoned in a vault.
Given the cut to grown-up Amy waking up, lots of people — including me — have taken that to be a dream, making the point that, despite everything, Amy is still waiting for the Doctor after all those years.
As for the ageing issue the thread is mainly about, River stated in the episode an intention to occasionally get a little younger just to mess with people. It therefore seems likely that she's can control her ageing process artificially to some extent. So calculations of the period between 1990 and 1963-or-thereabouts don't necessarily hold any water.
I thought I was the only one thinking along these lines, I posted the above yesterday. I think the OP who posted about the link with Mels and the date on Rory's badge is genius!
Hmmm I like the cut of your jib young fella mi lad!:D
I just took that as a handy way of explaining why the River that died in the Library looks younger than newly regenerated River does now.
And we all know that the Moff would never say anything to throw the fans off!