The Ratings Thread (Part 24)

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Sun!

15-09-2011

Waterloo Road now number 1 on iPlayer with Planet Dinosaur at number 2.
I think Waterloo Road will do very well in the Officials, probabaly easily over 5 million. Many would watch the football live at catch up on the Beebs programmes.
WDYTYA is also settling at just below 5m, which is quite a good figure.

The football did very well with over 5m over the entire programme in such an early round of the CL.

rzt

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by seansnotmyname@:
“Sorry missed those BB comments, what does Jeff Ford mean, recent history, I suppose may indicate that, but once upon a time Normal BB massively out-rated CBB, and that was at least right until BB7., CBB was rested at times too, so not really sure where that comment comes from.”

Yeah, I think he means recent history. In the last few years, the BB and CBB official averages have been:

2007- CBB: 4.6m... BB: 3.9m... drop: -15%
2009- CBB: 3.3m... BB: 2.5m... drop: -24%
2010- CBB: 3.7m... BB: 2.9m... drop: -22%

Before 2007, the CBBs and BBs used to rate more in line with each other. As you say, some BBs even rated better than the CBBs in the same year (in 2005 for example).

I think C5 were probably expecting BB12 to be down from CBB8 by about -20% based on the trends in the last few years. But it's turned out to be more like -40%.

Brekkie

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“That's true. Didn't help either that Twitter appeared to be down for the whole of the time BB was on. They've been promoting the hashtag all week on an ident at the beginning of the programme.”

Don't get me started on hashtags. Hollyoaks have now added #Hollyoaks to their title card - but that's subtled enough not to be noticed. Beaver Falls was the worst - E4 begging you in every ad break to tweet using the E4 hashtag - very annoying when you just want to sit back and watch TV. It's supposed to be relaxing, not promo work!

If people want to tweet they'll tweet - and use the hash tags they feel appropriate. And I think it's more Twitter trending reacts to ratings rather than ratings being affected by twitter trends.

Originally Posted by Big Poy:
“I think that as the series continues and if it carries on being quite good then maybe it can get to 2m

or i could be completely wrong and it will plummet to sub 1m ”

In all honesty it'll probably do both over the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by newkid30:
“Incredible to see those shows still performing for Channel 4 having been around for so many years, and with property obsession nowhere near where it was during the boom.”

Grand Designs is still head and shoulders above any other show in the genre - essentially simply story telling and with the owners real money at stake it hightens the drama too - something renovation game shows like The Renovators completely lack.

All ifs and buts as well, but I did feel all along with ratings almost certainly sub-2m and shows C5 already had in the slot usually comfortably above 1m for a fraction of the price that Richard Desmond was throwing his money away.

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Figures above ignore other revenue streams beyond traditional ad revenue that have been/are being explored.”

They'll be minimal though - traditional spot advertising and sponsorship is stll far more lucrative than any product placement or off screen deal. Voting has barely broken 100,000 a week for the last couple of years now - it's long stopped being a cash hotline for BB, and with no subscription fees for a live feed either that's another revenue stream cut. Plus the website is now basically a redirect to Twitter and Facebook - so no money made from advertising there either - I don't think the clips have any ads either other than Freederm.

Whatever money C5 is making beyond traditional advertising, it would only be a fraction of what C4 was making just a few years ago (up until BB9 really).

AlexiR

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Brekkie:
“Don't get me started on hashtags. Hollyoaks have now added #Hollyoaks to their title card - but that's subtled enough not to be noticed. Beaver Falls was the worst - E4 begging you in every ad break to tweet using the E4 hashtag - very annoying when you just want to sit back and watch TV. It's supposed to be relaxing, not promo work!

If people want to tweet they'll tweet - and use the hash tags they feel appropriate. And I think it's more Twitter trending reacts to ratings rather than ratings being affected by twitter trends.”

Just more proof (as if it were needed) that Twitter is the creation of Satan. I really wish producers and broadcasters would get over this obsession with it. I swear to God if one more show tells me about their hashtag or that I can Tweet along to it I may have throw something through my television.

Joe40

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Those crafty buggers at BBC Four. Anyone else noticed they are repeating the final chapter of the original version of The Killing at the same time as the finale of the American version on Channel 4 tonight?

Don't tell me that wasn't pre-planned!”

Easy call - Forbrydelsen is the best crime drama ever made. The American version isn't.

Will the women on Million Pound Drop (300k with 2 questions to go) walk away with any money? Place your bets...

http://www.skybet.com/betting/tv-and...ption_16494885

Facebook - Million Pound Drop
We've some exciting news to share...joining us on Saturday 24th September are JACK WHITEHALL & Dad Michael in an attempt to win big for charity!

ITV looking for contestants for some show called Britain's Got Talent...

https://gottalent.fremantlemedia.com/

AlexiR

15-09-2011

Britain's Got Talent? That'll never work.

GeorgeS

15-09-2011

Cant see great Europa League ratings this year. Fulham on Five, Stoke & Birmingham on ITV4 and Spurs on ESPN tonight. Except for Spurs, there arent too many big ratings sides involved this time around. The channels have been spoiled by Liverpool & Man City in previous seasons.

Dancc

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“Cant see great Europa League ratings this year. Fulham on Five, Stoke & Birmingham on ITV4 and Spurs on ESPN tonight. Except for Spurs, there arent too many big ratings sides involved this time around. The channels have been spoiled by Liverpool & Man City in previous seasons.”

Depends if Fulham can go the distance again.

I was impressed with the way they played tonight. Quite a good game for so early in the tournament.

Last year Liverpool & Man City were in the mix and crashed out quite early so big team involvement isn't everything, especially if they don't take it seriously.

GeorgeS

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by rzt:
“Having done some rough sums, I think you're right: it's looking questionnable.

Channel 5 are paying reportedly £40m per year for BB - it might be true, it might not be true, but this is the rough amount we have to assume based on what we've heard. Let's take off about £5m for the spin-off shows, meaning that for the main show itself it's probably costing C5 c.£35m for 93 hours this year = ~£380,000 per hour.

Celebrity Big Brother averaged 2.5m in the overnights. About 32%, I'd say on average, of its audience were aged between 16-34, meaning it had about 0.8m 16-34s watching throughout the series.

I don't know for sure how much it costs an advertiser to reach 1000 16-34s on Channel 5. It'd certainly be lower than the £42 figure for ITV1. This page suggests that on C5 the cost per thousand for 16-34 Men is about £50 (on ITV1 it's about £110). So taking that into account, it would suggest that CPT 16-34 adults on C5 (in relation to ITV1's £42) would be just under £20. This correlates with a CPT figure of £28 on C4 as seen here (you'd expect C5 to be less than C4). But let's be generous and say reaching 1000 16-34s on C5 costs about £30 (even though it could well be less than that!).

With an average of 0.8m 16-34s watching CBB, it would generate ad revenue of about £580k per hour (and remember each hour costs about £380k). So a revenue ratio for CBB of 1: 1.5. Pretty good.

Now for normal Big Brother, highlights shows have been averaging 1.4m so far. Let's say that with the launch and higher rated Friday 9pm eviction shows included, it'll average roughly 1.6m (this once again is being quite generous, as ratings for HLs could well fall in subsequent weeks). With about 32% of its audience in the 16-34s, that suggests on average about 0.5m in that age bracket watches. With a CPT of £30 for 16-34s, that suggests ad revenue would be roughly £360k per hour during normal BB, in line if not slightly under how much the show is costing C5 per hour (~£380k if reports are in the right ballpark). So the revenue ratio for normal BB is looking like 1: 0.9/1.0. Not good.

So when you factor in that about 23 hours of CBB is at a revenue ratio of 1: 1.5 and 70 hours of normal BB is at a ratio of 1: 0.9-1.0, overall for the 93 hours they're looking at a ratio of about 1: 1.0-1.1.

So not too good, really. IF the £40m budget figure quoted is correct (this is important- if it was £30m/yr it'd make a noticeable difference in the results), then I don't think they'll be making much, if any, profit from the acquisition overall from C5's POV (perhaps Desmond's other assets such as Daily Star/OK magazine will experience more of a boost). If they are making a profit, it's not really looking like a substantial amount (i.e. a ratio of 1: 2). Remember, however, all of the above is based on ifs and buts (with regard to the budget, CPTs, next few weeks' ratings etc), so don't take it too seriously!”

Amazing to think that 4 years ago, Big Brother was generating 25% of Ch 4's total ad revenues (£165m in 2006) http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ing.bigbrother

Back then I think BB was costing Ch 4 about £40m per year http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006...ing.bigbrother

so the profit to Ch4 in the heyday was £165M - £40M= £125M

GeorgeS

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Depends if Fulham can go the distance again.

I was impressed with the way they played tonight. Quite a good game for so early in the tournament.

Last year Liverpool & Man City were in the mix and crashed out quite early so big team involvement isn't everything, especially if they don't take it seriously.”

Someone (I think it was rzt, DMN or perhaps mlt - so many 3 letter posters!) posted the top teams by tv audience here once - any chance they could re-post

paltonz

15-09-2011

Link: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...ytheNumbers%29

So, no adjustments were made for Up All Night (3.7) and Free Agents (2.1). However, when looking at the quarterly breakdown, it does get interesting.

From TV by The Numbers/Travis Yanan:

Quote:
“Up All Night

10:00-10:15
- 12.612 million viewers
- 7.6/12 HH
- 4.2/11 A18-49

10:15-10:30
- 9.282 million viewers
- 5.7/9 HH
- 3.3/9 A18-49

Free Agents

10:30-10:45
- 6.546 million viewers
- 4.2/7 HH
- 2.2/6 A18-49

10:45-11:00
- 5.694 million viewers
- 3.7/7 HH
- 1.9/5 A18-49”

AlexiR

15-09-2011

That's not a particularly surprising drop for Up All Night. The first 15 minutes will have been inflated by America's Got Talent and slow switch off from that. That it kept itself comfortably above a 3 for the entire run time is a big plus point.

That drop for the first 15 minutes of Free Agents is awful though. I'm not entirely convinced that's just about a lack of interest in the show though. 10:30 comedies had similar numbers last season on both NBC and ABC so I wonder if part of it is just that the 10:30 slot doesn't work for comedy.

seansnotmyname@

15-09-2011

I liked "up all night", and I liked the two respective stars last efforts, but am worried, because they were cancelled. It's still a really good start though, hope it continues.

excel99

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Oh dear, Daybreak - at least get the name of the show you're plugging (at 7 minutes past the hour) right. It's Downton Abbey, not Downtown Abbey. ”

Has the set moved to a large department store and garden centre by the A1 near Grantham

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“7:30pm - New Highland Emergency: 867,000 (4.2%)
8:00pm - New Emergency Bikers: 1.38m (5.8%)
*5 minute peak: 1.74m
9:00pm - Law & Order: Criminal Intent: 1.03m (4.3%)”

Great for Highland Emergency and solid for Emergency Bikers (see below), but ouch for Law and Order Criminal Intent. Not got far to drop before it could go under a million

If Criminal Intent stays so low would it be worth swapping it with Big Brother to try and boost BB. Not very consistent for BB scheduling to be at 9pm on a Wed, but BB is struggling so nothing to loose if Criminal Intent starts flopping sub 1 million

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Emergency Bikers breakdown is impressive with some eye opening growth through the hour, peaking during the football half-time. Bear in mind the programme is now a co-production with UKTV which hold the repeat rights for Watch so costs will be quite low:

20:00 1,030,000 4.57%
20:05 1,011,700 4.40%
20:10 1,190,200 5.18%
20:15 1,271,300 5.43%
20:20 1,253,100 5.25%
20:25 1,240,200 5.22%
20:30 1,618,000 6.85%
20:35 1,742,300 7.36%
20:40 1,603,300 6.74%
20:45 1,554,400 6.49%
20:50 1,634,000 6.69%

Earlier in the year it was averaging less than 800k for new episodes on Thursday nights. Perhaps this technique of slipping "New" in the title as they've also done with Cowboy Builders recently is effective.”

On the flip side though not much above a million at the start which suggests that only a million actually tuned in to watch the show, and the rest were channel hoppers. And some of those million were probably casual viewers, like myself, who couldn't find anything else interesting to watch. So suggests to me the shows success depends on being scheduled carefully. Ultimately it's just another emergency services show. Five scheduled it well last night so it performed well. Schedule it badly and it'll be back to 800k average. Needs treating with care

One interesting thing about Emergency Bikers though is that it counts towards Channel Five's current affairs PSB requirements - read it in an Ofcom report

mlt11

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“Someone (I think it was rzt, DMN or perhaps mlt - so many 3 letter posters!) posted the top teams by tv audience here once - any chance they could re-post ”

See link below and go to post by bonecold1 on 25/05/11 at 19.01 for Sky PROGRAMME AVERAGES by team for last season.

Warning: Figures are not entirely like for like because:

(1) Teams will have played differing numbers of games in each timeslot (eg Man Utd are a bit low for this reason, ie they should be 1st by a bigger margin - see bonecold's comment below the table).

(2) Teams have played different opponents (eg Spurs are a bit high for this reason - see bonecold's comment below the table).

But, notwithstanding the above, it is a broad indicative guide.

http://www.broadcasting.vitalfootbal...d=95&start=977

rzt

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“Amazing to think that 4 years ago, Big Brother was generating 25% of Ch 4's total ad revenues (£165m in 2006) http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ing.bigbrother

Back then I think BB was costing Ch 4 about £40m per year http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006...ing.bigbrother

so the profit to Ch4 in the heyday was £165M - £40M= £125M”

It had about 1.9 million 16-34s watching that year, about 4 times more than it has these days. With it airing for ~120 hours that year, it was a massive cash cow back then!

Also, the fact C4 were paying £40m that year during BB's "golden period", makes me think if C5 really are paying that much for it now?

GeorgeS

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by rzt:
“Also, the fact C4 were paying £40m that year during BB's "golden period", makes me think if C5 really are paying that much for it now?”

The costs to Ch4 went up from £40m in 2006 to £70m in 2007, so Endemol upped the cost just when its audience started to decline.

Endemol is in deep financial problems itself at the moment, so I'd expect they have done a tough deal with Five this year. The cost to produce the show has to be significant too with so many cameras and footage to be reviewed and edited. I'd guess this is why no live feed as its going to be costly to maintain with limited revenues.

seansnotmyname@

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by rzt:
“It had about 1.9 million 16-34s watching that year, about 4 times more than it has these days. With it airing for ~120 hours that year, it was a massive cash cow back then!

Also, the fact C4 were paying £40m that year during BB's "golden period", makes me think if C5 really are paying that much for it now?”

Yep and the Jade part deux happene, I know they had too, but it was odd on c4 them giving a tribute to the girl who killed the show on the channell.

AlexiR

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“Endemol is in deep financial problems itself at the moment, so I'd expect they have done a tough deal with Five this year. The cost to produce the show has to be significant too with so many cameras and footage to be reviewed and edited. I'd guess this is why no live feed as its going to be costly to maintain with limited revenues.”

Indeed. Not that the crazier fans will ever accept that. Don't you know it costs absolutely nothing to just stick it online

seansnotmyname@

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“Indeed. Not that the crazier fans will ever accept that. Don't you know it costs absolutely nothing to just stick it online ”

Well the theory is the viewing figures would be higher if live feed was around

AlexiR

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by seansnotmyname@:
“Well the theory is the viewing figures would be higher if live feed was around ”

I've never quite understood that theory.

Glenn A

15-09-2011

It shows how unimportant this tournament is as it is shown only on digital channels, whereas years ago the BBC and ITV( when it was ITV) used to regularly show UEFA Cup matches. I think endless qualifying rounds, group stages and teams people have never heard of militate against the Europa League.

GeorgeS

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by Glenn A:
“It shows how unimportant this tournament is as it is shown only on digital channels, whereas years ago the BBC and ITV( when it was ITV) used to regularly show UEFA Cup matches. I think endless qualifying rounds, group stages and teams people have never heard of militate against the Europa League.”

The competition you refer to though was really the pre-cursor to the current Champions League. Things like the old Cup Winners Cup were always a bit of a Cinderella in the old days too.

Five had a very good run with the Europa League for several seasons (particularly when Liverpool got to the final). I suppose if Spurs get close this year, that might be nearly as good too. Cant see Stoke, Fulham or Birmingham being too great for viewing figures though.

Charnham

15-09-2011

I bring good news related to ITV

link

Quote:
“ Canadian sci-fi specialty channel Space has linked with Omni Film Productions and the UK's Impossible Pictures on a new series that builds upon the latter's drama Primeval.

Space said today it has ordered 13 hours of Primeval: New World, a spin-off of the British original set against the greenery and mountains of British Columbia.

"This is a truly unique opportunity, building a parallel yet independent series that will appeal to existing fans and new audiences," said Corrie Coe, senior VP of independent production at Space's parent Bell Media.

Space, Omni and Impossible have been in talks on the Canada/UK coproduction for some two and a half years. Season four of the ITV original played well on Space last winter, reaching about half a million viewers.

Primeval: New World will air in the UK on ITV. Other broadcasters have yet to be confirmed.

Like the original, New World follows a team of scientists who contend with time travel and creatures from both the distant past and present. The Canadian version will be "darker and scarier" than that of the UK, while interweaving plotlines and characters from both.”

seansnotmyname@

15-09-2011

Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“I've never quite understood that theory.”

Can only speak for me and my family and friends, a lot of whom agree with me. In britain we hate being manipulated, so we want live-feed simply so people can't be totally misrepresented. Even if you don't watch it, you know others are, so a dastardly piece of editing, can't go on, pushing some-one as an evil-doer in an argument when they were actually voice of reason, it's easily done on editing.

Kerry and Amy for instance could have been the most vile people ever in the house, but this BB wantedthem to stay in, so one presumes they only showed their good sides.

I won't watch the show again, as I know C5 will just push the better people for Desmond's magazines. Put live-feed up and I would.

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