I didn't think Red or Black was that bad, in fact I thought it was pretty good. I should note I watched without FB, Twitter, DS or any other social media. Maybe social media drags down the enjoyment of a TV programme with others brainwashing you into believing it is crap when its actually not a bad show.

I thought it was a bit slow, but maybe thats the problem with the twiiteratia and DS posters. Short attention spans!

The key audience will be families with kids. We dont really hear from them much on social media sites

but considering that thw twiteratia is pretty much the core auidence of Syco TV productions, the shows should really be catering to them.

That said, I suspect (as mentioned) its more to do with the padding out of a bad idea, to make it feel specail, and give Syco artists some more ITV screentime.

For the record im now going to refer to anyone connected with Simon Cowell as a Syco something

We will probaly about how Aussie ratnigs later, but I just found this (Julia Gillard guest judge on Junior MasterChef) I love how big Junior Masterchef is downunder.

Just a note, the first show on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday is 1 hour which may help the pacing.

It really isnt. Its families with kids that are the core audience

really? im not so sure about that. Sure familys may also watch but I figure the voters for X-Factor type shows, are the types who use Twitter and Digital Spy forums, you just have to look at the Big Brother forum to see that (I really need to take a look at the X-Factor forum one day)

Those pople being the ones who vote, and buy the music put of the artist when the show is finished which is the really important part, and what Simon is interested in.

how else do you explain that Jedward sell music?

11M watch X Factor; 2M regularly watch Big Brother. They are not even remotely comparable.

but not all those 11 million vote or buy the music at the end of it.

You may be right.

The trouble is, when you built up such expectations for a new show, and you've got every national TV reviewer watching, it's the opener that counts.

Daybreak, for example, has never recovered from the press mauling it got at the beginning. First impressions are crucial.

Mark Gatiss and Red Or Black are trending tonight. Both for the same thing though. Being shit tonight. Oh dear.

Just a ratings note for Red or Black. Family Fortunes had 5.5m last week in the same slot against a brand new, first for 3 months, episode of Doctor Who.

If Family Fortunes can get that figure then Red or Black with the mass hysteria ITV have created must surely get a LOT more than 5.5/6m.

Just following on from that, here's a tweet from the Sun's TV editor, Colin Robertson:


@Cod_Rob
Colin Robertson Red or Black? So far I'm going for brown. #redorblack

All this debate on ROB? will be more relevant a week tomorrow by which time we'll have seen all the overnights and we'll know whether it's a hit, a miss or a maybe.




Carry on!

I think its worth me saying at this stage, that Red of Black is not really for ITV viewers its for Syco viewers.

The people who engage with the show, who buy the music, lets call them "Syco viewers"

Red or Black is really an attempt by Simon Cowell to make a TV program for them, using the names already under the Syco group label.

As for Doctor Who, I cant put my finger on why, but I did enjoy the episode, even if there was no big plot arc, no big monsters, just a very watchable and heart wamring self contained episode of Doctor Who, something the show does do very well, but something that has not be done so well this series.

Kevin O'Sullivan of The Mirror didn't have much to say other than:

TVKev Kevin O'Sullivan
@Victoriafash1on Slightly dull so far.

Well, I was going to come on here and use my "Not Red or Black but Brown" joke, but I see at least two people beat me to it.

It wasn't catastrophically bad, but the "challenges" were just so dull and random. Leona Lewis sings a song whilst her dancers re-arrange 24 red and black lined suitcases, then she picks one at random afterwards! WTF? Is this for real?

Then whilst some contestants get to choose red or black, the other 3 all have to go black because too many of the first lot chose red.

After the staggering sums of money spent on this, the massive hype, and ITV staking so much on this show, how did it turn out to be a dud?

The ratings for tonight's shows are probably academic; it's whether 10m+ will stick with this over the week. The signs aren't looking good so far!

Then again, TXF is a crock of shit, and look at the ratings that gets...

I should add that I caught a 25 year old episode of Bullseye on Challenge TV after RoB finished.

There was more drama and tension in the "red or black" game there than in Cowell's new extravaganza. (The two numpties gambled the microwave and hi-fi system and blew it - losing the Mini Metro City "they could have won" as well - they must have been gutted....)

in that case we should discuss it when whilst we can

but seriously it may live best next week, it MIGHT get a second series.

This is getting a major slating everywhere - check out the DS RoB thread. If even a DS thread is almost in unison slagging off a new ITV Cowell show, then it's in trouble!

Getting quite excited now...

+1 I think both shows of R&B will do really well tonight[ with the second show getting 8-9m], but I cant see them keeping it across the week.

A lot of journos have been totally slating it, even the ones who worship at the altar of Simon Cowell.

I really shouldn judge too much, as I havent seen it, but if it is a flop then well I wont be surprised.

Ive watched alot of TV, discussed it alot, I can normally tell if a show will be a hit or not pretty early on.

Im going to go find how much ITV spent on this.

That might change things!

I made my judgement within 15 minutes of watching. I'm not one to use the internet while I'm watching TV.

I don't think it's catastrophically bad I just thought it was completely dull. A really flawed concept that probably sounded great on paper but didn't make for very entertaining viewing.

Never mind Red or Black, this thread tonight seems to be Charnham or everybody else combined. New ITV/SYCO shows really do seem to get you riled.

Yet tomorrow you'll forget this and you'll be all 'I'm really surprised it didn't get 20m viewers' or whatever ridiculously high figure you are predicting.