Yeah. Just to note one thing, I made that post a few months ago when I was under the impression it would be just 90 minutes a night. As it turns out, there have been some nights when there's been 105 minutes of Red or Black, so more adverts then. Overall, it means that per night this week there's an average of 96mins of Red or Bleck. So to break even, it's probably closer to 1.1m 16-34s which they need than 1.2m (according to those calculations).


If that's what they were hoping for, they automatically had a flaw in the concept from the get-go which was having standalone episodes. If you want ratings to build, you need a show with continuity and serialised elements throughout the series, with a big outcome in the final episode, which this doesn't have. In fact, something like Red or Black is the reverse, in that the big outcome (i.e. the novelty of someone winning the £1m in this way) happens in show 1 and then after that it's the same old thing again and again, which won't hold viewers' interest as much.

Does anyone know the series average of the latest run of New Tricks? And also how it compares to previous years?
Thanks

I know someone asked earlier and not sure if there was a reply but Loose Women returned with 1.2million

Rumours suggest Gareth Philips wasn't even a real person

I almost said the same myself, I think the US has actors who could do it, but the are in other jobs at the moment. Tom Selleck being a good example, and Ted Danson would be a possiblity as well if he wasnt on CSI currently.

Even if NCIS was to end, I think its too soon for Mark Harmon.

John Schneider (Dukes of Hazzard & Smallville) is a possibility.

They would have known. During the ad break around 7:30 (Emmerdale) they said how Corrie will be on at 9
After Emmerdale (just before 8) they shown a trailer which clearly said 9:00pm

I think Once EastEnders had finished the people that usually go to ITV for corrie would have likely done just that even knowing Corrie wasn't on.
Turning to ITV on Monday at 8:30pm must be like a habit.

I think I missed that one

Real or not he has a IMDB unless he wasnt there long enough to do anything, 99 episdoes is nothing in a soap.


I guess from ITVs POV that is a good habait, wouldnt be my choice but there you go,

The overnight series average for New Tricks was 8.18m.

Until episode 8, the official series average has been 9.34m. Here's how that compares to previous series:

2003 (Pilot)........ 6.69m
2004 (Series 1).. 7.00m
2005 (Series 2).. 7.48m
2006 (Series 3).. 8.00m
2007 (Series 4).. 8.25m
2008 (Series 5).. 8.70m
2009 (Series 6).. 7.94m
2010 (Series 7).. 7.85m
2011 (Series 8).. 9.34m*

* 8 out of 10 officials in yet.

The latest series was the most popular yet.

That's quite astounding for New Tricks. Mind you, it probably helps with sub 2m and not so funny competition...

Thanks rzt.

Some interesting ratings there. It seemed to peak in 2008 with series 5 then levelled off for 2-years until it bounced over 9m for the latest series. Never watched myself. May have to see what all the fuss is about one day, but you can't argue with those ratings. ITV1 will be hoping Doc Martin can pull in 8m+ a week when it returns and Downton Abbey to probs be around 9-10m an episode if last year is anything to go by.

Cowell may very well be looking for it to do that but I don't think anyone else is (realistically) expecting that. Its got a tough launch ahead of it in a couple of weeks and there hasn't been the media hysteria in the US akin to the UK coverage that Cowell and co. were hoping for. It'll be interesting to see how it does. It could be a pretty horrible month for Cowell this month...


I suspect it would do a bit more than that on CBS and if it was a success in the same league as the UK version could push toward 20 million viewers as NCIS does. Of course for US broadcasters total viewers are meaningless and I suspect the reason none of the broadcast networks have tried a New Tricks remake is because a cast of old actors would in no way, shape or form excite advertisers or make them believe that under-50's would tune in.


Only for one more season I suspect.

CBS skews really old too - their average viewer is about 54 (and that's brought down significantly by the comedies and reality shows). Only around 27-28% of the NCIS audience are aged 18-49, for The Good Wife it's even lower (25%). I can't imagine that anything could skew much older?

So I don't think there's any particular reason why CBS wouldn't take on a show like New Tricks because they're probably the only network that could get such a a large overall audience that, even with the low skew, they get a decent A18-49 rating. However, CBS aren't short on procedural ideas just now!


Well, it's a hotly anticipated Simon Cowell show, so anything less than beating The Superbowl will be a disappointment! A bit like Red or Black, they can't be hard selling to advertisers and coming out at the same time and saying to the public "if we just get to a second season we'll be delighted."

But no, it's not going to beat American Idol. Even with all his hype, I think Cowell has semi-acknowledged that. Privately, he and FOX will have tracking numbers to help them guess where the numbers will be. We can only go on recent ratings history to make our predictions.

It ought to be the highest rated premiere in premiere week anyway (in total viewers and A18-49). It faces Charlie's Angels on its second night and while that probably won't see a second season, remakes always premiere big.

The premiere of Two and a Half Men with Ashton Kutcher is also being heavily hyped. I do wonder if we could see 20m for that.

FOX's other biggie is the Steven Spielberg drama, Terra Nova which doesn't start until the 26th. Like X Factor, that has been talked about for nearly 2 years. It also has a pilot that is allegedly the most expensive in history for a broadcast network.

I always thought it had had an easy ride against SMTF, but last nights 7.6m against Corrie's 7.8m proves how resilient it actually is...

Have all the series aired in the same months every year? It seems bizarre for a show in its 8th year to suddenly become its most successful run.

Also, to add to my previous post, they shouldn't just strip something over 7 nights and label it or expect it to be 'event TV'. Shows like Pokerface and Hell's Kitchen were stripped in recent years and didn't do much, as well as some dramas which failed to capture people's imaginations. Ultimately, it's the viewers who will decide if something is 'event TV' or not. The majority of 'event TV' shows air on a weekly basis anyway: TXF/SCD/Apprentice and I think we'll see Downton Abbey in that 'event TV' category quite soon, if it already isn't.


This was the first time in 3 years they put New Tricks on Monday, so that would partly explain why it's risen, as well as generally airing against sub-2m opposition (not yesterday of course). But I think the BBC has done really well in the way they've repeated the show. We complained earlier this year when NT was 'only' getting 3m for its 3rd repeat of an episode, but at the end of the day, repeating something like this so many times on BBC1 will inevitably attract viewers who hadn't watched it before. The quality of the show is good, so these viewers who watch the repeats for the first time get hooked, and then start watching the original airings when they're shown, which helps boosts the viewing figures. You need repeatable-friendly dramas to do that; it's something which has worked very successfully with George Gently too. A couple of new episodes of it in 2008 only had 4.2m/4.3m, nowadays repeats of it get get almost that many, and obviously that in turn later helps out the new episodes which did fantastically the other day.

With 82% of its audience middle aged and older, it could explain why it repeats well. If they're like my Father-in-Law he always falls asleep and misses half his programmes.

88% for George Gently. Another repeat favourite.

They're also desperately trying to lower that average and convince advertisers that they're serious about lowering the average. Hence Kutcher on Two and a Half Men, the big push for Person of Interest and moving Big Bang Theory to Thursday last year.

And whilst NCIS skews old as a sign of how big its audience is in general its still one of the biggest shows in the 18-49 demo on US television.

They aren't opting out, just not not starting it at the same time as ITV1. TV Choice says STV will start DCI Banks a week later, but doesn't say what time slot. STV are probably shooting themselves in the foot here because understandably people think they have opted-out, when its actually only delayed transmission

Also STV will not show Holding Out For A Hero on Sunday but on Tuesday instead when they are not showing ITV1's Missing Millions and 71 Degrees North

And tonight STV are showing Countrywise, a Rugby documentary (that also gets an ITV Border airing on Thursday night) and Underbelly instead of England vs Wales


Very well deserved for Submarine Mission. Excellent programme. Anyone who says Channel 5 is full of rubbish should be made to watch it. I'd agree it would have done better at 9pm though

As for Soho Blues, unsurprisingly poor. It's yet another documentary about the emergency services. The sort of thing that will pick up casual viewers when the alternatives are poor, but absolutely wasted against heavy hitting opposition. Channel 5 would have been far better trying to go for an 'unusual angle' such as ITV did with Fraud Squad, or trying to do another series of Vice Squad

If I was a gambling man I'd say Red Or Black won't be coming back.
Quite apart from its iffy format I suspect people have genuinely been turned off by the sheer grubbiness of it all.

I wouldn't bet on that especially if we're including returning shows. I'm not even convinced X Factor USA is going to win its slots when it debuts. It has some tough competition

Wednesday - Survivor for the first hour won't be a walkover. Then in the second hour Criminal Minds has a big fan baiting premiere episode and ABC is rolling out an hour of Modern Family.

Thursday - The first hour it'll be up against an hour of Big Bang Theory on CBS and Charlie's Angels on ABC. Hour two will be the first half of a two-hour Grey's Anatomy premiere (despite the audience erosion of recent years Grey's still tends to premiere well), plus the debut of Person of Interest on CBS and the first episode of The Office with the new boss on NBC.

New show wise Terra Nova should have the biggest debut (although I can't remember if Fox is rolling that out during 'premiere week' or not) and returning show wise I'd guess Two and a Half Men will be huge.

That's actually another point for comparison with NCIS in the States.

2003/04: 11.84m
2004/05: 13.57m
2005/06: 15.27m
2006/07: 14.54m
2007/08: 14.41m
2008/09: 17.77m
2009/10: 19.33m
2010/11: 19.46m

One of the reasons given for the rise is that the USA cable channel (which is the highest rated cable network) bought repeat rights (quite cheaply) and it did incredibly well for them so they repeated it more and introduced more people to the show. I'm sure New Tricks being repeated quite often is helping its first run airings.

The "real" terms rise is even better for NCIS - US networks are under more pressure from cable and losing more of their audiences. CSI in 2003/04 had 25.3m a week, down to 13.5m last season.

I'm not sure I agree Ian. I think there is still the possibility of it coming back, but in a different format and/or a smaller budget.

I mean, disregarding budget for a minute, 5m is still higher than 80 percent of other programmes on ITV.

The comedies tend to skew young anyone and apart from Two and a Half Men, CBS dont have any family sitcoms. Person of Interest does seem to be an attempt to attract a younger audience while trying not to stray from the CBS target audience.

Aside from CBS, TNT would be the next natural home for a New Tricks remake as they already air procedural like The Closer and Rizzoli and Isles which get 6-7m and IMO would get double that if they aired on CBS although TNT do seem to trying to broaden with shows like Falling Skies and Dallas.

Wall to Wall's parent company Shed Media is owned by Warner Bros so I imagine they'll be trying to develop a remake.
Doc Martin another one I'm surprised hasn't been remade yet.

Terra Nova is the following week and if I had to put money on something beating X Factor, I'd be putting it on Terra Nova.

It is a tough start. ABC's hour long comedy specials aren't going to help. Criminal Minds shouldn't be too big an issue, IMO. Big audience but I don't think it's an audience which has much crossover with X Factor (or Idol).

Definitely agree about Thursday, though. That's going to be a really tough night to air a second episode against a whole stack of (very hotly anticipated) premieres.

Person of Interest is one I'm looking forward to seeing the ratings for. It will certainly make CBS younger on Thursday nights.

Mark Harmon mentioned that it was popular in Europe and Australia but it was in the fifth season when it started to grow. In the UK, NCIS started off slowly first on FX then Channel 5 bought it as filler on Saturdays which proved popular so they moved it to 9pm on Fridays where it attracted 2m or so, repeats on 5USA tend to pull in higher ratings than CSI despite only airing three times a week, I bet when they eventually strip it across a week, it'll attract a high audience.