To be fair The Biggest Loser is probably the cheapest of all those shows. It was a digital tv programme (On Living), then it went to ITV daytime, then after one season to primetime- (and it was a factual department programme not light entertainment). Also I think it had an OK rating in line with ITV expectations, which meant it was brought back.

ITVs new light entertainment programmes over the last year or so have generally done very poorly ratings wise. Generally as a viewer I dont think they have been very entertaining which is a big problem.

I dont think than RoB will be back, it simply costs to much and didnt perform. It struggled to keep viewers over a programme, never mind the week.

Yeah, it's a poor record. Obviously generally you'll get more flops than hits, that's the nature of TV, but 16-17 flops out of 18 new programmes is far too high. It's just been one disaster after another!


Something like that definitely would've been better due to the sense of jeopardy. I just dunno what they were thinking with the format they settled on. It's always telling when a show loses viewers, especially when it's the bit when someone wins the £1m which is rating lower than the rest of the show!

Edit: Ah, didn't realise The Biggest Loser was a factual show!

The Biggest Loser would have been from the factual department - and for them, I think it was a decent show. Probably better moved to Thursday but if it can deliver 4m at low cost in January, that's not bad. Along with Long Lost Family, it finally gives the factual department some returning series.

But the picture with entertainment is certainly very poor. And that goes back to 2010 as well. The Whole 19 Yards. Push The Button underwhelming. I think there were a few weeknight series as well. Pulling Who Wants To Be A Millionaire from Tuesday hasn't helped that night either.

Adrian Chiles Sunday night show did alright but it's not a big ratings winner. Take Me Out seems to be the only genuine hit on this front for ITV - and even then, it's probably not big enough to anchor a schedule. It's the demos that make that show successful.

Doesnt that apply to most "hits" ITV have? If they axed all the shows that relied on X Factor for decent ratings then the cupboard would be very bare indeed.

X Factor seems to be tracking last year pretty closely. Very worrying for Channel 5 with Big Brother going that low at the start of the regular series. Red or Black actually held onto a decent amount of the X Factor lead-in but they really need to let it go and move on.

The Proms last was perhaps a bit too high brow in the first hour for anyone who may have been tempted into switching over from the XF fest. ROB was able at least to get a decentish rating when spoon fed a huge audience some of whom would be ok with what it had to offer and others who couldnt be bothered to work to find anything else.
I didnt think last weeks Ross figure was that brilliant but its definitely back to more familliar territory this time.
Good for Strictly which managed to conjure up a high energy feel to it even though all that as happening were dancers were partnered up. It says something as to the way the show has bigged up the professional dancers profiles over the years that there is such interest in who gets who so to speak.
Doctor Who deserved to get a decent figure as the episode was excellent sci-fi, I just wished the show was making even more of an impact when it is first run.

Certainly, all shows which get TXF lead-in/outs are boosted. But I don't think most of ITV's hits relied on that XF lead-in as much as something like ROB.

Most of ITV's successful programmes are dramas which don't even get that TXF lead-in anyway. The one which got it last year, Downton Abbey, I feel, would've got 7-8m without TXF lead-in so would've been a hit in its own right, just not as big as it's ended up as. TV Burp is capable of an average of 5m without TXF, which constitutes a hit these days. That's not even taking into account the 3/4m who watch the peaktime repeat on Sundays. IAC/BGT/DOI are all hits without TXF. IAC gets a boost when airing after TXF, but was a hit before it came along, and can still comfortably get big figures without it. In light entertainment, Take Me Out settled at about 5m without TXF. The Cube certainly gets a boost by airing next to TXF. I wouldn't really call it a hit anyway, but the last series averaged 3.9m/19% without TXF, so pretty close to the 20% mark which is needed. But as I said, it's not much of a hit, more like a decent rated show.

The +45% rise which Red or Black experienced yesterday compared to the last few days before that was an unusually high post-XF lift. It's usually more like +20%. It seems to rely on that XF lead-in more than other light entertainment shows, perhaps due to the crossover interest in the programme (XF acts performing on ROB etc).

what does everyone think the X Factor will get tonight. will it have another 10m rating

Losing viewers for the big finale never bodes well! I think that kind of sums up Red or Black as a whole to be honest. ITV will be very disappointed with it.

Looking ahead though, I think they could be on for a good week to really get their Autumn season going. X Factor should do well at 8pm and will probably help Appropriate Adult edge ahead of last week's rating. Holding Out For A Hero will probably launch reasonably well too. Doc Martin doesn't have a great deal of competition on Monday so should be able to get 8m or so. I think Billy Connolly will do quite well on Thursday too. His last ITV factual series in 2009 launched with 4.7m and averaged 4.2m in the Thursday 9pm slot and that was without the Corrie lead in. I think he could be close to 5m. DCI Banks ought to be around 5m on Friday too. The only weak spot is Tuesday, where Missing Millions and 71DN will probably only get ~3m each.

As for The Biggest Loser, I think it belongs under the 'factual entertainment' label like shows such as MasterChef. I'd probably call it an entertainment show if I had to list it, but it was handled by the factual department (which makes Bedell's record look even worse!).


It's doing really well this year. The first 4 episodes are up +4% compared with last year (10.95m v 10.56m) and the extra Sunday show tonight should increase the gap. It just feels like a better, fresher show this year. The new judges work really well (Kelly Rowland is the star of the show) and the talent is pretty good overall. Last night's episode was probably the best of the series so far, and the ratings are reflective of the quality of the show this year.

I think it will be up on last night - X Factor traditionally performs a lot better on Sunday nights. More of its target audience will be in to watch it tonight.

There's one thing which I don't like about the scheduling, as a result of Red or Black being stripped, is that there are many programmes starting in the same week. It means that promotional opportunities that each programme has received has been less than they would've had if most things started in different weeks (as you'd usually get). Take DCI Banks for example - last year it was plugged well across ITV for 2 weeks in as many breaks as possible as it was pretty much the only new big show starting in that week or two. This year, as it's starting in the same week as Doc Martin/Downton Abbey and some other shows, I've barely seen any promotion for it as other things have been plugged more. Promotion is important, so I think that could maybe have some kind of negative impact on it, as well as the fact it's airing on Fridays. Same thing applies for 71 Degrees North. On the other hand, I've seen Missing Millions promoted quite a bit, more than the usual Tuesday 8pm stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised if it starts quite well compared to the usual slot-average.

In theory, Billy Connolly should do well based on how his previous travelogue rated. But I've noticed in the last year or two, ratings for these kinds of celebrity factual shows have dipped compared to early 2009 when his last show was on air. Take Martin Clunes, for example, who had ~5.5m for his documentary about dogs a few years ago. Last year he fronted a factual show about horses which got ~4.5m, this year he did another one which had ~4m. There's been an incremental decline. Also, shows like Caroline Quentin's show have struggled and Sir Trevor's show about the Mediterranean earlier this year rated worse than the Carribean one a couple of years ago, though the Tuesday slot wouldn't have helped. I think Billy Connolly's show will also experience some kind of dip and start closer to 4m than 5m to be honest.

DCI Banks doesn't seem to be getting advertised much at all. Having said that, if they can advertise it a couple of times during Appropriate Adult, Doc Martin and Corrie in particular then it should be fine. The Friday slot is a bit weird but after all the entertainment shows that have failed there I guess a drama is worth a try. As for the promotion of other shows, I guess it depends what shows on ITV people watch as I haven't seen Doc Martin advertised much (not that it needs loads of promotion) but I've seen the 71 Degrees North trailer loads of times. Missing Milions does seem to be getting a decent bit of promotion, and I agree it could get off to an okay start.


You've got a point there, but I think if it's about an interesting topic with a big name presenting it then these shows can still do OK. For instance, Joanna Lumley's Nile averaged 4.7m only just over a year ago. The Martin Clunes ratings are probably more down to the subject of the show than anything, as more people are probably interested in dogs than horses, and more people are probably interested in horses than manta rays. His upcoming series about lions might do better. Having said that, wildlife shows clearly need to either have a big name presenter or have a big budget as shows such as Lion Country and Animal Kingdom have flopped badly recently. Sir Trevor's show was only down by about -0.5m compared with his first series which was probably down to the slot, and Quentin isn't anywhere near as popular as she used to be. I think Connolly's show could do well. He's a big name and Route 66 is a really good topic for a show like this. I think it could be onfor 4.5-5m, and I'll be surprised if it's below 4m.

I disagree. It's the one thing that I like abour ROB?, that this and IAC (another Ant & Dec hosted stripped series) severely limit ITV's scheduling options forcing them to launch a host of new series between tomorrow and next Sunday. And with BBC1, for whatever reason, doing likewise, it really feels like we're getting a big Autumn launch like we use to get in the good old days when the two channels would have an ecletic "New Season" trailer. Oh, happy days.

As for DCI Banks being given a Friday slot and not a lot of promotion - I wonder if that indicates a hint of little confidence on ITV's part. It does sound like a bit of a routine crime drama, although that doesn't mean it won't be good and it certainly didn't do New Tricks or A Touch Of Frost any harm.

Drama vs comedy on Friday is good complimentary scheduling but I still think Thursday would have been a better slot for Banks. Maybe it's simply because ITV thought BBC1 were going to put Spooks on Thursday. Anybody got any idea or thoughts as to what BBC1 will be screening on Thursdays. I know it's Crimewatch on the 22nd. We're not going to have put with cheap factual filler, are we?

Elaine had another 10 or so flops at the BBC. Thats quite an impressive CV she has


They did the same last week.

I watched DCI Banks last year, it was pretty bad, but it had a surprisingly stable audience throughout both episodes and rated well for them (almost 6m in the overnights). So I'm a bit surprised they would air a fairly new drama series, which seems to have the potential to become a long-running franchise for them, on Friday nights as it could be a good sized hit for them on another weeknight like Thursdays. But as you say, the ITV schedulers might've thought Spooks was going into the Thursday slot!

As for Thursdays, I do think BBC1 will mainly air 'cheap filler' shows there. I see no point in wasting a big expensive series like Frozen Planet on a Thursday when it could get higher figures on Mondays. Also, Tuesdays should be the home of new dramas such as Body Farm and Public Enemies as Holby City provides the best lead-in for the week and ought to be capitalized on. So that does leave "cheap factual" and probable New Tricks repeats for Thursdays. Outnumbered might be shifted to Thursdays for a week, though, when SCD has its Friday launch.

I have one final Red or Black question, Who or what is One Direction?

moving on now that Red or Black is all done, I would like to aplogise for any posts ive made this week that have been in bad taste (well anymore so than usual) believe me, its only due to not being able to find words, ive not been alot harsher on the show.

I have the same problem. I've had to be ruthless and drop a few series this year, and just watch my absolute favourites.

I reckon Holding out for a Hero will claim that 5th place tonight - can't see it getting much more than 3m. Suddenly though Red or Black doesn't look so bad - though it probably cost more than the other six put together!


Yes, Kelly Rowland is certainly carrying the auditions. Tulisa can be quite funny too, but doesn't quite seem as confident in the role yet. I just hope unlike BGT Simon leaves this be this year and doesn't come and gatecrash the latter stages. The BGT live week didn't really need him and TXF Semi and Final certainly doesn't either.

I think it was 9pm last year, and 8.30pm the year before. Don't quote me on that, though!

Saturday 3rd September - Consolidated Ratings
Doctor Who - 7.07m (29.8%)
Red or Black [Show 1] - 7.11m (30.5%) [+1: 0.23m (0.9%)]

For the head-to-head scheduled part (i.e. 19:00 - 19:45), Red or Black had 6.2m (26.3%) [+1: 113k]

Very good night for BBC One. Super launch for Strictly, higher than last year and its highest ever, which I don't think anyone expected. It seems like the two main Autumn reality shows are not slowing down just yet. Alright for Doctor Who, but was hoping for a mid 6m overnight considering the lead-in. No biggie though, it will timeshift a lot as usual. Very good audience for the Proms and a peak of 5m, up on last year. As thus, Strictly and Doctor Who add their names to the 'higher than Red or Black roll of honour'. Strong primetime figures for BBC Two, comfortably above 1 million. If QI XL was a repeat of yesterday, then that brings the combined figure to 4.6m, so it hasn't lost any of its BBC One audience it seems. Very wise idea to move it back to BBC Two. The QI shows afterwards performed strongly for the channel, too.

Good figure for the Rugby World Cup on ITV concerning England, not massive but a near 50 percent peak can't be looked down upon no matter what time of day so they'll be pleased with that. All Star Family Fortunes back under 3 million against Strictly, it never seems to like being up against Strictly, for some reason. According to Wikipedia this series is on to 22nd October. It moves back to 7pm next week, but then I think it'll be back to 6pm (or 6:30pm) on 8th October when TV Burp returns, I assume that returns when The X Factor live shows start, but haven't seen anything official on that line. If Red or Black does return, it won't be live, and it definitely won't be stripped across the week in my view. Unfortunately for ITV, the problem with Red or Black was that half the content in the first show was pre-recorded, they couldn't go and rip up VT's galore, Red or Black isn't like Million Pound Drop where they can listen to live feedback and improve for the next night, as was the case when they began. Another good rating for X Factor, level about with last year - down excluding +1, up including +1 depending on your interpretations. The first X Factor Sunday show last year, albeit a week later on Sunday 19th September, had 11.6m (42.8%) with a 13.2m peak - if it is in the mid 11m's again, then we could well see another year with very high viewing figures. I'm not sure whether we'll see the highs of last year's levels, but anything is possible. Poor for Jonathan Ross, and next week he is on at 9pm. Hopefully his figures are better, because I'm not sure ITV will want under 3m at 9pm.

Solid for Channel 4, and they beat Big Brother, so I imagine someone at C4 HQ is smiling. Poor for Big Brother on Channel 4, their lowest ever highlights figure. Time will tell, but considering the reaction on the Big Brother forum, hopefully it jumps above 2m soon.

My (genuine) CV actually says that I have been a writer for the The X Factor and produced an X Factor special.

All true - though....

One Direction (pop group, 5 teenage lads) )got to the final of last year's X Factor, didn't win. It's in the contract that the winner gets a clear run without the others stealing their thunder. But I wonder how many people can actually remember who won? (Matt Cardle).
So with him being quiet, One Direction appear to be Simon Cowell's flavour of the month and they're everywhere at the moment.

As was Michael Winner.

Bit of a drop for Jonathan Ross. I think he should have kept a Friday at 10.30pm slot when he moved to ITV1. If ITV don't want to make new programmes for that time on Friday nights. they shouldn't have signed him up for a chat show!

His show wouldn't have worked on Saturday nights at the BBC, and it didn't even work when they did a 9pm special on a Friday night a few years ago.

Yet, he rated really well in the 10.35pm Friday slot. Why mess with a winning idea?!