Yes, I forgot to include HD for 71 Degrees North this time last year (it's done automatically now). The actual YoY decline for that one is 693k.

Thing is, I find it the best since BB7 in 2006. It's a great series, but no one has given it a chance. The mix is great and there are some real gameplayers in there.

I wonder if Channel 5 will show normal Big Brother next year? Because it proves while the Celebrity version still has legs, the normal version is struggling.

I think they should maybe look at doing Secret Story as a BB format or maybe adopt the American format.

Maybe the ratings demonstrate something different - that people (and the tabloid press in general) are just not as interested in the format as they once were.

Honestly don't think it's that. I think it launched too low for reasons already well documented and that's had a knock-on effect on what followed.

All of the current most popular formats on TV are old. If over familarity was a problem we'd be seeing big declines for the likes of The X Factor too. Sure, you could argue that has brought in changes to the judging panel etc, but so has Big Brother in the form of a new presenter and an updated editing style.

Also Big Brother's ability to surprise has been lost. I know they overdid it a bit with the twists at times when it was on Channel 4, but this series so far has felt too much like the housemates are getting too easy a time of it. They need to address that pronto. The format works best when it's a real pressure cooker environment and the housemates are under emotional strain. How they then respond to that and eachother is what makes it tick. It's early days obviously but at the moment all they are having to deal with is being away from home and their families, which if you're a young person, as most of them in there are, it's not such a difficult thing to deal with a lot of the time.

Big Brother and X Factor are different through. X Factor has changed and evolevd every year to keep it newer and fresher. Big Brother's only real change was in 2004 and since it has degenerated into what it is today. The updating editing style was implemented on Channel 4 and came too late, whilst Brian just comes across as a second rate presenter because of his already close connections with the show. It just screams "we can't find anyone else to do this". It would be like X Factor replacing Cheryl Cole with Sinitta.

I don't think its shock/surprise factor has been lost, they simply don't have any new ideas. You only need to watch Davina in the last CBB or the clown entering and chasing Nikki during UBB to see that.

I think people are too quick to make excuses for Big Brother.

It is fair to say that the Celebrity version performed well or at least above the majority's expectations for it but it is also worth remembering that it wasn't really a talking point. The media and public at large certainly weren't as obsessed with the show as they had been in previous years it was just sort of there.

Big Brother's problem is that people have become bored with it. The format is too old, tired and predictable and a new presenting team and a slight change to the editing process can't hide that. You're right to say that The X Factor hasn't really changed its format during its time on air but what the production team behind X Factor have been spectacularly good at is delivering relatively small cosmetic changes that give the impression of change and overhaul with Big Brother that hasn't happened. The minor changes they've made don't feel significant and do nothing to grab the attention of an audience that had already grown tired of the format when it was on Channel 4.

The best thing Five can do at this point is write this series off as a learning experience and re-launch next year with some real format changes.

Brian's done a good job, better then Davina anyway. Hows the MPD doing this series?

Think a lot of it will be revived once they just put it back on in the Summer, the scheduling is really stupid. Personally, I think they've already changed too much, wish they'd go back to the origional idea, 12 verry different HMs, with few twists, and proper Live-feed.

The Twist thing was massively over-done on C4, how many times did we see Davina gurn and shout that this WAS THE MOST AMAZING TWIST I'VE NEVER BEEN SO EXCITED, for it just to be a slight variation on what had happened before.

Simon Cowell is good friends with the two biggest tabloids newspapers in the country. They practically live and breath his every word. We shouldn't underestimate the effect that has. Didn't help him with Red or Black? of course but that wasn't an established hit in the first place. The front page headlines every week and the endless stories about fixing and whatever else has been engineered by Syco this week keep that show ticking as well as the slight changes there has been along the way to freshen it up.

In comparison, Big Brother has no friends in the media outside of Mr. Desmond's stable. They see it like yourself as past it and don't want to be seen to be associated with a show past its peak. Also they have no real desire to promote a show on one of Richard Desmond's channels, especially a show which enjoys better more extensive coverage in Richard Desmond's newspapers and magazines.

Its having to fight hard for its 1.4 million viewers in a competitive marketplace. The X Factor is almost most popular by default now because viewers are sheep and watch what they are told is the "in thing."

He might be doing a good job but Sinitta could do a good job as an X Factor judge. Its doing nothing for the reputation of the show and it becomes very much an 'internal' affair with only existing fans remaining interested.

No. Its just a loud minority of hardcore fans. Only 86,000 bought live feed last year. If you say that the audience for last year's series was 2m then people who bought live feed were under 5% of the total audience.


Twitter was much more positive, nothing spectacular but far more complimentary comments.

I did think it was pretty poor considering its WTD connection. It certainly improved as the episode progessed but having such a dull first 20/30 minutes for a new drama just shouldnt happen.

The likes of XF et al are very different from BB though, both in generic format and quite likely the audience demograph (and could exhaust itself at a totally different rate from other programmes). It is quite feasible that those who once watched BB, and those who reported upon it, are no longer enthused by the format (i.e. have grown tired of it, or have become cynical of the way that both the format and audience is now treated)

Poor night all round really. The Body Farm launched with a figure I expected (I predicted 5.5m on the RPG). However sounds like it will dip next week. Awful start for 71DN. I'm shocked it was that low. I was expecting at least 3m judging how it performed last year so 2.3m was a shock. Maybe some viewers will join next week if they choose to abandon TBF.

Holdy City as well seemed low. Can't remember when it was below 5m when it clashed with very poor competition so seems strange considering we're in mid-September now. The soaps did OK, but I still maintain EE should be doing better than that (as should Corrie IMO). Emmerdale seems like the only soap in line with last year. It's been remarkably consistent to so the least.

Elsewhere C4 and C5's schedules bombed. Another very lows rating for Shameless (despite the episode not been too bad last night IMO), but I think this 22-episode run has harmed the show now. BB continues to struggle. In weeks to come we could be seeing it go sub 1m! It was a mistake launching it directly off CBB. And with talks of another CBB in January...this is total overkill. Who knows, this time next year, BB maybe dead and buried for sure this time!?

Before saying 'horrible night for Channel 4', I would advice talking a look at Film4's 9pm number below, it seems like that and probably Sky Sports took a lot of viewers away from commercial TV last night:

Tuesday 13th September 2011
BBC One
13:45 - Doctors: 1.63m (22.8%)
19:30 - EastEnders: 7.91m (36.7%)
20:00 - Holby City: 4.90m (21.4%)
21:00 - The Body Farm: 5.25m (22.2%)
22:00 - BBC News at Ten: 4.63m (23.9%)
22:35 - The Bomb Squad: 1.92m (16.2%)

BBC Two
19:00 - Dragons' Den: 1.34m (6.4%)
20:00 - The Great British Bake Off: 3.47m (15.2%)
21:00 - Hairy Bikers' Meals on Wheels: 2.28m (9.64%)
22:00 - Never Mind the Buzzcocks: 1.18m (6.2%)
22:30 - Newsnight: 800k (6.1%)

ITV1
19:00 - Emmerdale: 6.55m (32.7%)
* +1: 117k (0.5%)
19:30 - Mayday Mayday: 2.66m (12.4%)
* +1: 200k
20:00 - Missing Millions: 2.71m (11.87%)
* +1: 153k (0.65%)
21:00 - 71 Degrees North: 2.27m (9.62%)
* lowest ever rating
* 2010 series average: 3.5m (15%)
* 12-month slot average: 3.6m
* +1: 158k (0.92%)
22:00 - ITV News at Ten: 1.52m (8.2%)
22:35 - FILM: Land of the Dead: 551k (5.65%)

Channel 4
18:00 - The Simpsons: 1.68m inc +1
18:30 - Hollyoaks: 1.07m (5.7%)
* +1: 90k (0.4%)
20:00 - Inside Nature’s Giants: 1.05m (4.6%)
* +1: 186k (0.8%)
21:00 - Seven Dwarves: 1.33m (5.64%)
* +1: 294k (1.71%)
* series low
22:00 - Shameless: 1.36m (8.08%)
* +1: 202k (2.27%)
* series low
23:05 - True Blood: 479k

Channel 5
13:45 - Neighbours: 742k (10.2%)
17:30 - Neighbours: 1.05m (7.2%)
18:00 - Home and Away: 778k (4.5%)
19:30 - Chinese Food In Minutes: 513k (2.4%)
20:00 - Mysteries of the Vampire Skeletons: Revealed: 1.12m (4.9%)
21:00 - CSI: Miami: 1.63m (6.9%)
22:00 - Big Brother: 1.37m (7.97%)
* series low

Primetime Shares
BBC One - 23.6%
ITV1 - 12.6% (+1: 0.5%)
BBC Two - 9.5%
Channel 4 - 5.2% (+1: 0.9%)
Channel 5 - 5.1%

Ratings include HD and are tape-checked where necessary.

Multichannels
5*
18:30 - Home and Away: 395k (2.1%)

Alibi (inc +1)
21:00 - Body Of Proof: 292k

BBC Three
21:00 - Don't Tell The Bride: 896k (3.8%)
22:30 - Wilfred: 468k (3.0%)

Dave (inc +1)
22:00 - Mock The Week: 383k

E4
19:00 - Hollyoaks: 531k (2.6%)
* +1: 122k (0.5%)
20:00 - David Blaine's Street Magic: 420k inc +1
21:00 - Smallville: 327k inc +1

Film4 (inc +1)
18:45 - FILM: The Land Girls: 255k
21:00 - FILM: The Day The Earth Stood Still: 988k
* one of the highest-ratings I've ever seen for Film4

GOLD (inc +1)
19:15 - Only Fools And Horses: 193k

More4 (inc +1)
18:45 - Come Dine With Me: 309k
19:15 - Grand Designs: 377k

Sky1
20:00 - Showboaters: 85k (0.4%)

Source: Attentional, Broadcast, C4 Sales, DS, Guardian, MediaTel

It's a very strong figure for Film4 but I can't get too enthused about it personally. It's only the 2nd time the movie has been shown on terrestrial so you'd expect it to perform well. Channel 4 will be pleased though that a strong multichannel performance offset the dire results for the main channel a little bit. It's not clear if ITV or Channel 5 have anything to shout about in that regard.

P.S. D.M.N. I believe Shameless was a series low too, was it not? And not sure how True Blood can be a series low when it only started last night, unless you mean all-time low. It could turn out to be a series high!

That's an impressive figure for Film4 especially when you consider what a truly terrible film The Day The Earth Stood Still remake is.

I wouldn't know. I don't watch films with K Reeves in if I can help it.

Film4 does have the capability to surprise sometimes with some unexpectedly large ratings. Die Hard over Christmas stands out. It helps strengthen the bid I suspect Channel 4 are preparing for the fifth HD slot on Freeview, which I'm sure they'd love to fill with Film4 HD. Providing Channel 5 bid though I think they will almost certainly get it.

And more importantly, why has True Blood been dumped in the 11.05 grave yard slot?! Obviously it won't do well there. True Blood is an awesome show and deserves a better slot than that! Granted, 500k is OK considering the slot, but I'm sure it would be capable of more? Anyone know how the first two seasons rated? I've currently been watching this show on DVD and have just 2 eps of season 3 to go in preparation for when it returns to FX (whenever that'll be?!).

Fixed

Surely viewers watch The X Factor because they enjoy it and not because they are told to watch it? The reason the X Factor has remained popular is because changes are made to make it feel fresh and more exciting every year.

I'm a fan of Big Brother but you can't really defend the figures it's been getting over the past few days. Whilst I think the series has been good so far, I agree that I think casual viewers have become very tired with the format. The last time Big Brother significantly changed was when BB turned nasty in BB5. I think Big Brother should have a major change again... I think next year, Channel 5 should make it more like BB USA and emphasise that Big Brother is a game, with a big money prize to be won at the end. The gaming aspect hasn't really been emphasised enough for a good couple of years. They should make housemates fight to keep their place in the house and make the house a more competitive atmosphere.

The X Factor has changed judges and made alterations to the different stages of the programme to maintain the 'event TV' feel every year and that's why it's remained popular with casual viewers.

we are asking why True Blood is in the "grave yard" slot? True Blood / Grave Yard, dont tell me I was the only one?

I was trying to work this out yesterday when it first came to my attention that 4 had buried it in a late slot.

The last series opened with nearly 1 million viewers, which doesn't seem too bad:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s59/t...s-to-980k.html

However, after 11 weeks of changeable timeslots, the double episode finale (finishing at half past midnight) could only muster around 500k:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s100/...-nabs-93m.html

The start times over the course of the run were: 2200, 2200, 2200, 2230, 2220, 2230, 2305, 2305, 2230, 2200, 2305.

Regardless of that, it deserves a better slot!

I don't know why C4 bother with US shows when they treat them like this. Best left to the digital channels IMO.

You're right. I was unfair on The X Factor there. It serves its viewers well and whilst that remains the case they will happily watch it.