[niceguy1966]

This series IS SO SLOW. I can't believe how little happens each week!

Two hours (last week and this week's episodes) to be introduced to the idea of "the families".

What the hell are they playing at? Just get on with it!

[k9fan]

Interesting the script can be seen before the programme is shown:
http://www.afterellen.com/tv/torchwo...p-110?page=0,3

... back to iplayer

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by Andy Joannou

Good episode! Esther was back to being a bit on the annoying side to night "He saw me! He saw me! He saw me!" and even though it wasn't featured heavily, I enjoyed the Oswald Danes and Jilly scenes. Two more episodes to go...

I thought the episode was very good, and I'm intrigued now.

[Banana Rama]

yep, very little has happened in the last two episodes in terms of the story-line, it does seem like they are struggling for new idea's, its really starting to drag, i am still enjoying just because i am a sci-fi fan and there is nothing else like it on tele at the moment, but they really need to step it up next week............

[Shane54]

Great episode. I'm really enjoying the slow burn of this series - episode 8 and there's still a good bit of reveal to come.
I'm happy with tv that shows the whole journey that's taken to reach a destination and that like in life, not everythings discovered in quick subsession and some things play out over a longer timeframe. I'll be kinda sad when it's all over in 2 weeks time.

[Old.Tallen]

Originally Posted by TheSilentFez

Speaking of dead ends, I thought "The Soulless" would have been explored further...but they weren't.

I am of the same opinion, they introduce this notion of a religion growing out of the event and then drop it without expanding on the idea. It looked like it would be a significant plot hook, it featured on several of the trailers but it seems to have come to nothing.

I wonder if they will revisit it in the next two episodes or at a later date, if not it's a waste of one of the better ideas they toyed with, then got bored of and moved onto the next irrelevant benality.

[smiddlehurst]

Gave this particular episode a try purely because of John De Lancie's presence and, as expected, he was simply brilliant. Sadly the rest of the episode was utter dreck and I wish I'd stuck with my original plan to skip the rest of the series on transmission.

Now I've been thinking for the last few weeks why I'm outright disliking this series of Torchwood when that hasn't been the case in years gone by and I think it boils down to this: They had a superb concept, an incredible array of talent in front of and behind the camera.... and they've delivered a vapid mess.

This episode is actually a very good example. It's ridiculously slow, maybe three things of note happen (everything related to the Null field, Jack getting shot, the Oswald subplot being moved on a bit) and between them there's MAYBE fifteen minutes of screen time. The rest of the hour is just filler trying to crank up the tension. Sorry but with this level of writing talent that's really disappointing.

Perfect example: where was the discussion and wider scope of the category 0 and category 1 self-selection? I've always thought sci-fi is meant to give a forum where real world issues can be discussed and presented thanks to the not-our-world setting. What a perfect time to at least get into euthanasia a little bit but no, they utterly bottled it and, in so doing, skipped the explanation of how someone who has obvious mental problems AND who had her kids taken away can sign both herself and said children up for death. It's not as if there wasn't time for it in the episode, the middle two thirds was slack to an unbelievable degree considering there's only two more episodes to go before the end.

I've also got major problems with certain characters this week starting, of all people, with Gwen. I adored her earlier in the series but here she seemed to have lost 100 IQ points. Didn't even try to work with the US, was threatened with deportation and just kept on shouting at them. She's brighter than that. Esther is still vastly unlikeable and just plain useless most of the time, not helped by the actress always sounding like she's going to cry. Rex's plan for getting Jack to the car was full of holes too so I assume the stupidity fairy was busy (specifically: the guard in the room with the Null field KNOWS Jack wasn't holding them at gunpoint and Rex was going to tell the gate guard the car was clear, something that'd take about two seconds to fall apart when the story is checked).

Talking of the stupidity fairy, how in the name of all that's holy did Wayne Knight's character manage to keep THAT much explosive and a detonator hidden when he was arrested? They surely do at least a basic pat down before chucking a valuable resource with a lot to loose who's at least semi-compotent at his job within the CIA into the car? We also run into a major problem with the often-mentioned lack of clear time keeping on this show. How long has all this been going on now? Because for the banks and stock markets to be collapsing you're talking months. Even then, if the government can pass legislation to bring back the death penalty (which, surely, wouldn't apply to Oswald as his sentence at the time was carried out and therefore he served the penalty for his crime) then they could raise the retirement age by five years to give themselves some breathing room pretty easily? See this is the problem when you set your story in the 'real' world, you can't just ignore the real world solutions to relatively minor problems. Talking of which, why was the EU most at risk to financial disaster when the US seems to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy on a regular basis?

Most of all though, after watching the next time trailer I'm really worried about the time being devoted to the resolution here. They've got two hours to go and it's looking worryingly like real actual answers to what's going on might not come until the last episode (or at least late on in episode 9). If the ending feels rushed after 10 hours of screen time that's damn near unforgivable.

And that, neatly, leads me back to my original point. I can't help but feel let down when I watch this series. They've got a fascinating concept along with the time, money and talent to deliver on the concept and they've missed the mark totally (again, IMO). This could have been a really important, genuinely compelling look at the deeper issues of society. Instead we get padded out nonsense and more plot-driven coincidences than you can shake a stick at. Back to just reading the recaps for me and hope that ep9 and 10 deliver a strong enough finish to make it worth re-watching the series from the start when it's out on DVD.

One last thing just to be clear - I really don't like writing negative reviews, especially for shows I want so badly to enjoy. The only reason I do so is I feel that it's far too easy to just say 'I didn't like it' and not think about the reasons why. By working through it at least it feels like I've gotten something out of the episode and, hopefully, it may add something to the discussion as well.

[k9fan]

Re http://www.examiner.com/torchwood-in...he-road-review
I agree with
"Esther is the one who finds the null field and when Jack realizes it he asks her to keep quiet, but it is dumb emotional Esther so of course she tells. Again 8 episodes in, why is she even relevant, why is she here in this world? She still does NOT get that there is a reason for things that Torchwood works behind the scenes not give things up."

[CarlLewis]

I enjoyed tonights episode.
However the damage has already been done.
The premise of the series seemed a good one but it seriously lost its way in some of the previous episodes.

[daveyboy7472]

Don't know what to say about this episode. It wasn't action packed but it wasn't slow. It wasn't boring but it wasn't exciting either. It was in fact on a level the whole way though which is a first for this Series.

It was just an interesting episode full of exposition and has already been said, it advanced the plot very little.

One thing I really get tired of seeing in American Drama is the pig headed Yankee such as Shapiro. Rex started of this way but he's become likeable as a character. Now they've decided to put a Rex 2 in the programme. So tedious and boring seeing those types, can't we actually have some nice Male Americans for a change?!

[HandsomeBB]

Originally Posted by Old.Tallen

I am of the same opinion, they introduce this notion of a religion growing out of the event and then drop it without expanding on the idea. It looked like it would be a significant plot hook, it featured on several of the trailers but it seems to have come to nothing.

I wonder if they will revisit it in the next two episodes or at a later date, if not it's a waste of one of the better ideas they toyed with, then got bored of and moved onto the next irrelevant benality.

The Soulless were a teasing metaphor for The Silence in DW. Remember when transmitted we didn't know The Silence were a religion or a movement.

[lady_xanax]

I'm watching it on-and-off and it never seems to advance. The episodes individually are quite fun, although the Americans helping Torchwood are really boring. Oswald and Jilly are the most interesting characters

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by smiddlehurst

Gave this particular episode a try purely because of John De Lancie's presence and, as expected, he was simply brilliant. Sadly the rest of the episode was utter dreck and I wish I'd stuck with my original plan to skip the rest of the series on transmission.

Now I've been thinking for the last few weeks why I'm outright disliking this series of Torchwood when that hasn't been the case in years gone by and I think it boils down to this: They had a superb concept, an incredible array of talent in front of and behind the camera.... and they've delivered a vapid mess.

This episode is actually a very good example. It's ridiculously slow, maybe three things of note happen (everything related to the Null field, Jack getting shot, the Oswald subplot being moved on a bit) and between them there's MAYBE fifteen minutes of screen time. The rest of the hour is just filler trying to crank up the tension. Sorry but with this level of writing talent that's really disappointing.

Perfect example: where was the discussion and wider scope of the category 0 and category 1 self-selection? I've always thought sci-fi is meant to give a forum where real world issues can be discussed and presented thanks to the not-our-world setting. What a perfect time to at least get into euthanasia a little bit but no, they utterly bottled it and, in so doing, skipped the explanation of how someone who has obvious mental problems AND who had her kids taken away can sign both herself and said children up for death. It's not as if there wasn't time for it in the episode, the middle two thirds was slack to an unbelievable degree considering there's only two more episodes to go before the end.

I've also got major problems with certain characters this week starting, of all people, with Gwen. I adored her earlier in the series but here she seemed to have lost 100 IQ points. Didn't even try to work with the US, was threatened with deportation and just kept on shouting at them. She's brighter than that. Esther is still vastly unlikeable and just plain useless most of the time, not helped by the actress always sounding like she's going to cry. Rex's plan for getting Jack to the car was full of holes too so I assume the stupidity fairy was busy (specifically: the guard in the room with the Null field KNOWS Jack wasn't holding them at gunpoint and Rex was going to tell the gate guard the car was clear, something that'd take about two seconds to fall apart when the story is checked).

Talking of the stupidity fairy, how in the name of all that's holy did Wayne Knight's character manage to keep THAT much explosive and a detonator hidden when he was arrested? They surely do at least a basic pat down before chucking a valuable resource with a lot to loose who's at least semi-compotent at his job within the CIA into the car? We also run into a major problem with the often-mentioned lack of clear time keeping on this show. How long has all this been going on now? Because for the banks and stock markets to be collapsing you're talking months. Even then, if the government can pass legislation to bring back the death penalty (which, surely, wouldn't apply to Oswald as his sentence at the time was carried out and therefore he served the penalty for his crime) then they could raise the retirement age by five years to give themselves some breathing room pretty easily? See this is the problem when you set your story in the 'real' world, you can't just ignore the real world solutions to relatively minor problems. Talking of which, why was the EU most at risk to financial disaster when the US seems to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy on a regular basis?

Most of all though, after watching the next time trailer I'm really worried about the time being devoted to the resolution here. They've got two hours to go and it's looking worryingly like real actual answers to what's going on might not come until the last episode (or at least late on in episode 9). If the ending feels rushed after 10 hours of screen time that's damn near unforgivable.

And that, neatly, leads me back to my original point. I can't help but feel let down when I watch this series. They've got a fascinating concept along with the time, money and talent to deliver on the concept and they've missed the mark totally (again, IMO). This could have been a really important, genuinely compelling look at the deeper issues of society. Instead we get padded out nonsense and more plot-driven coincidences than you can shake a stick at. Back to just reading the recaps for me and hope that ep9 and 10 deliver a strong enough finish to make it worth re-watching the series from the start when it's out on DVD.

One last thing just to be clear - I really don't like writing negative reviews, especially for shows I want so badly to enjoy. The only reason I do so is I feel that it's far too easy to just say 'I didn't like it' and not think about the reasons why. By working through it at least it feels like I've gotten something out of the episode and, hopefully, it may add something to the discussion as well.

I don't agree with you, but I can see where you are coming from with some of your criticisms. Gwen did behave very strangely tonight (I was shouting at the TV wanting her to behave rationally). I also agree about the fact that the explosives would have been found on a person who was arrested.

I still voted excellent, because regardless of everything I really liked it, and the scenes between Jack and old Angelo were really touching, and Danes was really chilling. Quite intrigued still what is going to happen.

Removed

[Shane54]

[quote=lady_xanax;52461754 Oswald and Jilly are the most interesting characters [/QUOTE]

I could watch a lot more of Jilly. I find her totally engaging and really likeable - I'd rather she was the companion in DW instead of Karen G.

[k9fan]

Okay, I have watched it again.
And as I thought before - something started, something else started, something else started.
Disappointed this evening in Gwen and Esther.
Noticed this time that the woman at the CIA mentioned family business in the first conversation.


Average.

Two to go

[DS Forum Support]

Please keep the posts on-topic and respectful of other forum members.

[BobbyMalone]

Oh come on! That's madness!*



* I'm referring of course to the surprising and yet ingenius way in which the alien tech was used in this episode

[Latonia]

Smiddlehurst said everything in post 57 that I wanted to say, pretty much.

This should have been done over 5 nights like CoE.

There's 10 minutes of plot advancement and 50 minutes of filler in every programme.

Esther and Rex - live or die I just don't care.

Gwen is ridiculous in this, major disappointment.

I guess Jack saves the day in the last ten minutes of the last episode and wish I didn't feel the need to watch the last two - I just want to know the outcome.

[Batch]

smiddlehurst, you said everything I couldn't be bothered to write.

But damn it I have to see it through now...

[smiddlehurst]

Originally Posted by DS Forum Support

Please keep the posts on-topic and respectful of other forum members.

Thank you, very much appreciated.

[BobbyMalone]

Originally Posted by smiddlehurst

Thank you, very much appreciated.

Ok then. Keeping the right side of respectful I will ask you this...

Can you understand why for some of us who enjoy the show your repeated declarations that you are going to stop watching it as you hate it so much are not only slightly frustrating and annoying but also don't do your credibility any good because you keep coming back?

Can you also understand that this has nothing to do with wanting to silence those that dislike Miracle Day? In fact you will notice that I encouraged you to stick with it and as such keep posting. So quite the opposite.

[DavetheScot]

I liked this. I agree with one of the earlier posters on this thread that it's all over the place, but I don't mind. I found the revelation of the CIA woman being part of one of the families a genuine shock.

And I'm still loving Esther. Yes, she screwed up when she ignored Jack's advice and revealed her idea about the floor, but still, everyone's allowed a mistake sometimes

I liked the scene with Oswald and the prostitute; I liked that she was happy enough to take part in something degrading with him, but couldn't stomach normal human contact with him. I thought he was going to kill her (or turn her into a category one, if we're going to be precise) and was relieved when she got out safe and sound. Sadly no such luck for Shawnie; I found it quite poignant that she was doomed from the start of her assignment, as there was a "family member" in the CIA.

[interiris]

Agree Gwen has lost 100pts IQ and reverted to throwing teen tantrums and CJ just seems to be caught up in the same old storyline-i am increasingly finding it difficult to take anything in MD seriously-how could so many writers get it so wrong-instead of the storyline converging it is still jumping all over the place.And the plot devices like the use of the lens is becoming repetitious- the pension funds was a bit silly-it has only been a month-and lets face it they are getting rid of that problem with category one.Trouble is i do not even care.I will. see it out to the end becuse it TW but as for a fifth series i think i will just give it a miss

[George7]

Thought it was a little slow, but overall, better than last week's episode.

I'll see it through to the end, but I doubt I'd bother with another series of TW if it's in a similar format to this one.

[JasonWatkins]

Originally Posted by Ulfgeirr

This is just speculation, but sometime speculation can ruin one's enjoyment:

Good point

I really have no idea what's going on but i'm going to watch the last 2 episodes and hope it makes sense in the end ..